adwolf1 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Is there some sort of a problem with new subarus? I love my 96 and 03 Legacies, i'm just wondering what's going on here -- http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/09/21/jdpowers_apeal/index.html The new forester & legacies look really nice, why are folks in the survey so down on them? any theories? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcoaster Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Is there some sort of a problem with new subarus? I love my 96 and 03 Legacies, i'm just wondering what's going on here -- http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/09/21/jdpowers_apeal/index.html The new forester & legacies look really nice, why are folks in the survey so down on them? any theories? The top 3 complaints are: fuel economy, no aux input for iPod's, and the seatbelt chime. Many of them have said that it is a great car in the snow and rain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Coyote Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Could be that they are getting a lot more expensive? Before you were getting great value for the money, and now your getting the same value for a lot more money. I think people expect more for bigger bucks, and when they don't get it they are disappointed hence the lower satisfaction rating. Just my two cents though. Urban Coyote Is there some sort of a problem with new subarus? I love my 96 and 03 Legacies, i'm just wondering what's going on here -- http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/09/21/jdpowers_apeal/index.html The new forester & legacies look really nice, why are folks in the survey so down on them? any theories? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adwolf1 Posted September 27, 2005 Author Share Posted September 27, 2005 have prices gone up that much? i paid $17k for my '96 L 2.2/4EAT/power everything what would the equivalent "base" legacy be today? Could be that they are getting a lot more expensive? Before you were getting great value for the money, and now your getting the same value for a lot more money. I think people expect more for bigger bucks, and when they don't get it they are disappointed hence the lower satisfaction rating. Just my two cents though. Urban Coyote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcoaster Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Could be that they are getting a lot more expensive? Before you were getting great value for the money, and now your getting the same value for a lot more money. I think people expect more for bigger bucks, and when they don't get it they are disappointed hence the lower satisfaction rating. Just my two cents though. Urban Coyote I disagree. I compared similar cars against the Outback, and in order to get everything the Outback has in another car, you would have to spend more money and the final cost would wind up being between $3000-5000 more than the Outback. And the other cars have a lesser AWD system that the Subaru's have. You are still getting good value for your money- it's just that others are offering options in a wider range of trim levels compared to the Outback. I mean, come on- MP3 capability ONLY in the VDC?!?! A Honda Civic EX even offers navigation capability and MP3 playback capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwatt Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Is there some sort of a problem with new subarus? I love my 96 and 03 Legacies, i'm just wondering what's going on here -- http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/09/21/jdpowers_apeal/index.html The new forester & legacies look really nice, why are folks in the survey so down on them? any theories? Just read the second paragraph in the article: "The Kia Amanti was the top-ranked "Premium midsize car" in the survey and the Kia Sportage was the top-ranked "Entry SUV." (The discontinued Pontiac Aztek placed third, after the Nissan Xterra, in the "Entry SUV" category.)" This paragraph alone should be enough of a hint about how warped this data is to begin with. Who comes up with this nonsense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outback_97 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 J.D. Power's Automotive Performance Execution and Layout study was based on surveys of 115,000 new vehicle owners during the first 90 days of ownership. They were asked about their satisfaction with aspects of their vehicles including the engine and transmission, ride and handling, comfort and convenience and styling. I'm guessing the results would change if the time period was a couple of years, but the lack of options as mentioned above can't be helping things. Oh well, we love ours, who cares what some other people think? I read a survey once that determined that 75% of surveys were inaccurate... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 The top 3 complaints are: fuel economy, no aux input for iPod's, and the seatbelt chime. Many of them have said that it is a great car in the snow and rain. Well thats just nitpicking then. But its the touchy feely things that will get a car poor ratings quickly. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capri Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I don't believe polls. Plus, people who make poor choices in a vehicle are very unlikely to want to admit it. It's like saying, "I bought a ......and now I feel stupid because the .........sucks!" Who wants to admit they bought an expensive vehicle and it doesn't live up to their expectations? I love my 2006 Forester. It handles great on our slippery WA roads where we get a drizzle instead of hard rain and the awd never lets the wheels spin, even going uphill and WA has a lot of hills. Bye, Capri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Traded '98 L wagon for 05 OBW and I can tell you why there is lower satisfaction: Too heavy. Underpowered. Auto tranny defines SLUSHBOX! Unresponsive fly-by-wire throttle, EXTREMELY uncomfortable seats, and seating positions. Classified as a Utility Vehicle (UT) as per DMV and insurance definitions. If you must have a Subaru, stick to the Legacy. There is NO reason to pay more for an OB, well, unless you NEED an extra inch-and-1/2 of ground clearance. Juan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outback_97 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I know this is old, but there was an LA Times article earlier this year that described how Subaru won the top spot for highest quality brand: http://tinyurl.com/bz9a6 Sorry, this is just a summary of it, you have to pay for the article since it's older, but I have a paper copy of it. Subaru owners reported 8 problems per 100 vehicles, the average was 16. The quality ratings are based on surveys from 810,000 vehicle owners, covering 17 areas for vehicles up to 8 years old. Juan: No offense intended, but did you test drive the vehicle before you bought it, or are the above listed things what you've noticed over time? I can understand that the comfort level of seats is hard to judge in a short test drive, but did you not notice the other stuff right away? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Actually Subaru had no say in the truck catagory. The EPA was the one that catagorized it as a truck, not Subaru. Otherwise you mave a point or two, but I would still prefer it over a real SUV. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bard Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Traded '98 L wagon for 05 OBW and I can tell you why there is lower satisfaction:Too heavy. Underpowered. Auto tranny defines SLUSHBOX! Unresponsive fly-by-wire throttle, EXTREMELY uncomfortable seats, and seating positions. Classified as a Utility Vehicle (UT) as per DMV and insurance definitions. The problem with these comments, with the exception of the last one, is that they're all subjective. I can't say that I've driven an '05, but I have driven my '97 and my wife's '00. I like the heavy feel... gives me the impression that the car is solid. My wife's auto tranny doesn't seem slushy, since it picks right up without any problem. I don't believe either of my OBW's have that fbw throttle, so that's moot. I love the seating, personally... but I'm comparing them to my wife's old Saturn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adwolf1 Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 interesting observation about the seats; my 96L's seem more comfortable than my wife's 03L, with a "softer" material & better shape. And the seats in my ancient GL10 were a lot like the 96L's. Not sure why subaru seats are getting less comfortable over time... I also noticed that in the latest gen legacies there are no place to put your feet when you sit in the back. (ie, the space beneath the front seat is too small to stick your feet under comfortably.) Traded '98 L wagon for 05 OBW and I can tell you why there is lower satisfaction: Too heavy. Underpowered. Auto tranny defines SLUSHBOX! Unresponsive fly-by-wire throttle, EXTREMELY uncomfortable seats, and seating positions. Classified as a Utility Vehicle (UT) as per DMV and insurance definitions. If you must have a Subaru, stick to the Legacy. There is NO reason to pay more for an OB, well, unless you NEED an extra inch-and-1/2 of ground clearance. Juan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slegacy96 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 interesting observation about the seats; my 96L's seem more comfortable than my wife's 03L, with a "softer" material & better shape. And the seats in my ancient GL10 were a lot like the 96L's. Not sure why subaru seats are getting less comfortable over time... I also noticed that in the latest gen legacies there are no place to put your feet when you sit in the back. (ie, the space beneath the front seat is too small to stick your feet under comfortably.) Interesting. I upgraded to a '99 with leather from a '96 with cloth and found that the leather was way better than the cloth. And I liked the cloth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Juan:No offense intended, but did you test drive the vehicle before you bought it, or are the above listed things what you've noticed over time? I can understand that the comfort level of seats is hard to judge in a short test drive, but did you not notice the other stuff right away? Steve You're right, Steve. I didn't test drive my new OB as well as I should have. Having driven my old wagon for more than eight years, I simply assumed that I would, again, be a highly satisfied Subaru customer. I never even considered looking at another brand when I went to replace my beloved old wagon. Don't get me wrong, I'm still high on Subaru quality and safety. However, as a Subaru customer, my level of satisfaction with my recent purchase is dramatically less than the level of satisfaction associated with my last subaru purchase. Is it my own fault for not taking a longer test drive? Probably so. Has my customer level of stisfaction dropped dramatically? Yes. Will I strongly consider other brands when I go to replace this OBW? Yes. Will I take longer/harder test drives next time? You bet ya. Juan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adwolf1 Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 Juan -- are you saying that the 05 OBW feels -slower- than your 98L? my 96L is pretty darn leisurely (i don't mind of course, b/c i can still get 30mpg out of it) i know what you mean about "fly by wire" -- we have a lexus ES that has a gas pedal that feels like it's bathed in molasses. Plant your foot in it, and you wait a couple of (anxious) seconds before anything happens. Toyota says its "normal". Sigh. I think i'm going to keep the 96L until it turns to a pile of red dust in the driveway. You're right, Steve. I didn't test drive my new OB as well as I should have. Having driven my old wagon for more than eight years, I simply assumed that I would, again, be a highly satisfied Subaru customer. I never even considered looking at another brand when I went to replace my beloved old wagon. Don't get me wrong, I'm still high on Subaru quality and safety. However, as a Subaru customer, my level of satisfaction with my recent purchase is dramatically less than the level of satisfaction associated with my last subaru purchase. Is it my own fault for not taking a longer test drive? Probably so. Has my customer level of stisfaction dropped dramatically? Yes. Will I strongly consider other brands when I go to replace this OBW? Yes. Will I take longer/harder test drives next time? You bet ya. Juan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outback_97 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 You're right, Steve. I didn't test drive my new OB as well as I should have. Having driven my old wagon for more than eight years, I simply assumed that I would, again, be a highly satisfied Subaru customer. I never even considered looking at another brand when I went to replace my beloved old wagon. Juan Juan: I can understand that, we're big fans of Subarus and when we got the wife's Impreza, we didn't really test it out that much either. Of course, coming from an '89 GL, it was a big leap forward in power, comfort, handling, amenities, so it was not a hard decision and we haven't regretted it. I've assumed my next vehicle will be a newest gen Legacy or Outback (without having driven one yet), so it's disappointing to hear the negatives. But if I don't like the new ones as much as my current wagon, I'm not sure what else in that price range with AWD would be available as an alternative. I'd love to keep the current vehicle going for a good long while, that's for sure! The fact that it's been paid off for a while is a very nice feature that I wouldn't find in any new car. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Juan: I can understand that, we're big fans of Subarus and when we got the wife's Impreza, we didn't really test it out that much either. Of course, coming from an '89 GL, it was a big leap forward in power, comfort, handling, amenities, so it was not a hard decision and we haven't regretted it. I've assumed my next vehicle will be a newest gen Legacy or Outback (without having driven one yet), so it's disappointing to hear the negatives. But if I don't like the new ones as much as my current wagon, I'm not sure what else in that price range with AWD would be available as an alternative. I'd love to keep the current vehicle going for a good long while, that's for sure! The fact that it's been paid off for a while is a very nice feature that I wouldn't find in any new car. Steve My 05 LW has ample power. I traded in a civic sedan so there is where my subjective reasoning is based from. If I needed a fast/agile commuter car, I would have looked elsewhere. Instead, I needed a car that could take me and the family to do tailgaiting, camping, hiking, conoeing, and traveling at a reasonable MPG. We couldn't be happier with our decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Took me two days to notice the crappy gas pedel position , and my 98L WAS much quicker than my current 'O5 OBW; hands down. This thing is a slug when I step into it. Juan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakoTGrimes Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 My two cents is that it is because Subaru keeps adding more stuff to the cars, mostly electrical convienence things, and the more stuff you add the more stuff will eventually break and cause other things to break/not work right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzo Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 My two cents is that it is because Subaru keeps adding more stuff to the cars, mostly electrical convienence things, and the more stuff you add the more stuff will eventually break and cause other things to break/not work right. people want those electrical convenience things... why do you think people buy poorly rated cars? because they have features. i'll admit, i don't like the lack of comfort features from subaru. and in order to get most of them, you need to buy a higher end one. why not offer them across the board, or at least on the same model... all legacies should have the same options as options, all imprezas, all foresters, etc... but that's not how they work. and their prices are more expensive than other comparable cars. we have to remember that not everyone compares subarus with other AWD cars, they compare them with other cars of the same class... most that are FWD. and is it me or do the newer ones get worse fuel mileage than the ones from the late 90's? that's something that shouldn't be happening... yes, the bigger engines might be nice, but if you're not working other things to save gas, then there's a problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyirishmen Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Your looking to pay about $20-23 for a new basic legacy that is quite a bit more than you paid for yours in 96 and the options really haven't grown any nor has the power (unless you get a turbo). I could see why people get pissed when they pay that much and they could get a honda that is optioned out for the same price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stansgl Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Well the next few years should get interesting. In my newest addition of Subie Sport or Drive magizine (I forgot which) there's an article where they put up the Legacy Gt against an Audi I believe it is and in there they are talking about how subaru's plan is to be up to standards with cars like BMW and Audi's in the next 5 years and that the '05's were the first taste. Has anyone else read that one yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzo Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Well the next few years should get interesting. In my newest addition of Subie Sport or Drive magizine (I forgot which) there's an article where they put up the Legacy Gt against an Audi I believe it is and in there they are talking about how subaru's plan is to be up to standards with cars like BMW and Audi's in the next 5 years and that the '05's were the first taste. Has anyone else read that one yet. if they try to compete with them while keeping their prices low, that could be a good thing... if they become a luxury car and the prices reflect that, they'll lose at least half their loyal customers, probably more. they also still have the stigma of being called "subaru". a lot of people who drive audis and bmw's do so because of the name, not so much the reputation (the new audis suffer the same troubles the new vw's do). subaru is not a status symbol, audi or bmw is... they'll also run into problems if they still only offer 4-cyl engines in their more "luxury" cars. they'll have to rely on the h-6 more to really compete. not to mention subaru doesn't have a "big" car (along the lines of the A6-A8 or 500-700 series). i think they need to win back the hearts of a lot of their loyal fans before they make this sort of a change... i'm curious what we'll see once GM is completely out of the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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