slipspeedy Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 ok i'm building a 6" lift for my 88 hatch already have some info but as you guys know you can never have too much any thoughts would be welcomed:banghead: :argue: :banghead: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 i know this is not what you want to hear, but a lift costs about 300 bucks. research and developement is what its all about. and thats cheap. just my opinion, never built one myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikldom Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 There is so much to the lift,, without you asking specific questions, you won't get any answers... Myself, Scott, and Hassey have 6inch lifts on brats that I know of.. and a couple more out there. post some questions here, and we will answer them. talk to you soon. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam N.D.J. Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 300!! For a ByB/Ozy lift, but if your doing a home built 6" (like mine) It'll run you about a 150$. I got all my steel for everythine, thats the 6x2's, the 4x2's and 2x2's for about 75 bucks, then about 25 bucks in wire and gas, then the bolts are about another 25 bucks and 25 for other things you want to add on (paint, grinding discs, ect). You can look in my gallery on the usmb site and see how I've got most of mine set up, if you need any help, drop me a line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassey Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 You will need 3 ft of 2x6 tubing and about 20 ft of 2x2 tubing cut the 2x6 tubing into 14 pieces 2x2x6 theres 10 in the front (5 on each side) and 4 in the rear (2 on each side) I'm going to i'm going to be real general with the idea that you have some idea of what needs to be done you will need 14 nuts and bolts same size as the ones all ready in the raise the car up at least 2 ft lower tranny/engine enough to fit block in place use original bolts for the top and new nuts/bolts for bottom use 2x2 tubing and cut to fit between all the 2x2x6 blocks and weld them in place Yes even concet the front to the rear when done you will have a frame that concets all the block all the way around the car. a subframe sorta speak the rear bow, the shock mounts, the engine suport, the stering linkage the strut towers shifter linkage all need to be extended. With the shifter you will find new words that you did not know and maybe put a couple of dent in the car, or have to go and find that wrench you threw, I say this because I wanted mine to look oringinal on the in side so when you look inside you can't tell, but it can be done this won't be a week end job at best your looking at 3 weeks unless you have nothing but time on your hands then thats a different story Hassey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushbasher Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 you can't buy a 6" lift anyways, and to me at least, R&D is half the fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam N.D.J. Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Originally posted by bushbasher you can't buy a 6" lift anyways, and to me at least, R&D is half the fun. Only true at the moment. Early next year I'm going to be pulling my body off my frame, then strip all the suspension off it for painting (real automotive paint), while I have it I'm going to be making a jig from it. So sometime next summer I'm going to have the jig all made up and can make up the 6" lift to order for anyone that wants one, and doesn't have the time or knowhow to make up one them selves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushbasher Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 will I be the only 6" ea82 wagon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassey Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Adam All I used for a jig was the front end of a hatch mid door forward strip down to nothing but the 10 holes. In your offer to make thses 6" lifts Does that include all the welding of the blocks and all the linkage being extended? how do you plan on shipping the welded frame when done and what are you going to include? just curious and asking thats all. I was thinking about doing the same thing a long long time ago but knowing what is involed I would have to charge close to $1500.00 a lift plus shipping and there no one on this board would pay that, but that would have included the lift all welded together so it would have a rectragle frame all the bolts, the shifter linkage, the HI/LO linkage, the stering, the engine suport, the strut towers, the shock mounts, the hubs for 6 lugs the bow for the rear end. Hassey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaroonDuneDoom Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 could i use the same method described above to make my own 4" lift? what all would be involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassey Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Yes use 2x4 tubing in stead of 2x6 tubing keep in mind that the lifts being talked about here are for EA81's and most every thing is custom fit to your car. I could not tell you how to lift a EA82 Hassey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipspeedy Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 hey guys thanks for the replys i actually decided on 4" and bought my steel today don't know how much it was yet still haven't got the bill yet. i had one of my employees pick up the steel and he bought 1/4" instead of 3/16" but i figure it should work fine now i guess it's time to look up some good word to shout:lol: i do have one question for hassey will the 20degree measurement hold true for the 4" lift on the strut tower extensions:headbang: and also where do i find info for the steering shaft:cornfuzz: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushbasher Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I would not have trusted my old one on the road, mine was a bushbashing buggy. I'll be able to think of something, but I'd also like to know how you guys do it. On the ea82 you will also have to fabricate rear shock mounts, because it has coilovers not torsion bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByTheSea Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 1/4" wall steel. Yikes. Thats gonna be massive. I don't know whether it's to late to add design ideas but heres a thought. The Hassey style lift uses 14 tall blocks aligned with the open sides facing the side of the vehicle. This is bound to have some tendency to act like an accordian front to rear unless you go back and plate all those blocks to make em rigid in three dimensions. If you do that then that lift is forever Also thats a minimum of 28 welded joints in the subframe. If your'e only going 4" maybe run two main rails of 2x2 instead. That would have five or so welds per rail and would allow you to easilly plate the joints where you go up and down. Then you add a block of 2x2 at each bolt point. Of course accuracy would be harder to achieve and you'd need to replace all the stock bolts with ones 4" longer. But it would be seriously rigid. This is not a knock to Hassey. Obviously his lift works. I just get a little scared that those blocks might want to fold under severe loading. The way they are aligned the weld, not the steels cross section is taking almost all the load If you look at the BYB front engine crossmember lift block for ea82s you see that it is 2x3 heavy wall(I think 3/16 but never miked it) which is through bolted and additionally has 1" internal reinforcing towers for each bolt hole. Anyway those are my thoughts. Iv'e never built a lift myself. But I have had to crush a few cardboard boxes in my day and they crush really well with the ends opened up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam N.D.J. Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 My kit would be two pieces, front and rear. This would require some assembly, if you wanted. The front will be two pieces, left and right, and the rear will be two pieces also, the main lift and diff hanger. There may or may-not be the parts for the shift linkage, depends on whether the person wants one pre-made, and also has a lot to do with the tranny in the vehicle. There will be options that the person ordering can specify. At the moment this is something that is kinda up in the air at the moment because I'm starting a new job, and looking for a new house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassey Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Slipspeedy I'm unsure of the degree you will get with a 4 inch lift at that point you might see if you can purchise strut towers for a 4 inch lift from PK davis that part would be easier. the steering Knukle came from a 95 Legacy cause it double jointed at both end so when you cut it in half and weld the splice in it will turn smoothly with out binding. Bythesea I appresiate your input but my Brat is VERY ridged the way it was built theres 14 places that are needed for an ea81 lift. Be it a 4" lift or a 6" lift and with all blocks in place and welded together with 2x2 tubing you have a solid frame all the way around under the brat on all 4 sides and by using 28 bolts you get that much more strenght. instead of useing 14 5" long bolts on individual block that aren't conected now that would have the tendecy to rock I had this lift this way going on 8 to 9 yrs now and I have never thrown a lug broke weld or tweaked the frame. or have the Brat rock or move on the lift. Oh and I'll add one more input theres are atleast 2 board members that have coppied my design idea with absolutly no problems again thanks for your concern and input Hassey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipspeedy Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 hey hassey thanks for the info on the steering now about these pkdavis strut towers where and how much thanks again:grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassey Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 slipspeedy You will have to check pkdavis profile and get e-mail i do not have it or maybe some one here will post it the cost could not tell you and won't even guess that will be between you and pk davis if he will sell pieces of a four inch lift You know if you changed your mind and are going with a 4" lift you may as well buy it complet from PK Davis hassey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByTheSea Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Hassey, Again let me preface that I'm not suggesting your lift is a poor design. I was just interjecting my own thoughts on the threads topic. I called it the Hassey lift because I think most of us have seen pictures of your rig and it was the simplest label. Perhaps it would have been better to call it "Multiple Segmented Body Lift" type design. To clarify I'm not suggesting a variation on the BYB individual block design, but rather a variation on your subframe. The idea is essentially just like a regular truck frame comprised of two 2x2 rails. To this you weld individual sections of 2X2 channel. The long bolts go all the way through. The reason I like this idea is that you have a minimum number of welds in your frame rails and it's much easier to plate the joints with flat steel stock this way. As far as the bolts go I think 14 or 28 is moot because every intersection in either design is going to have shear at right angles to the shaft applied at the intersection of the two parts. I don't think it matters whether the two forces are applied to one bolt or two since they are applied in different places. This is for a 4" lift. For bigger lifts I'd want to use seperate bolts top and bottom. Heres a couple of cheasy MSPaint drawings to show what I was talking about. The arrows represent forces under braking etc. The red spray paint represents welds. Imagine those arrows as sledgehammer blows to the lift blocks and you'll see which will give first. Of course thats for front to back forces. In side to side yours is stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam N.D.J. Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 That is a pretty good idea, although would take alittle more work to fab up, cause you would have to have variable height pieces due to the variations of the subframe connectors. For those that are embarking on their own lifts, I have taken a pic of my autocad drawing for everyone to see, makes things a little clearer as to what you need to do. It doesn't have the front to rear runners in there, I left those out due to the differences between the hatches and others. Here is the pic, it's pretty big, so I'm linking it. Lift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassey Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Adam It's nice to see that you remembered the lift on my brat just a couple things you missed. Counting the blocks from front to rear [1]=[2]=[3]=[4] there is a 5th block on the inside in between blocks 3-4 ----------------^ The double tubing on each side in the rear is a little over kill if you remember I have one in the center conecting both sides. And theres a 22" piece of 2x2 tubing coming straight off block [1]=== just under bumper and conected to the other side with a 36" piece of 2x2 tubing so that I have a complte sub fram all the way around the brat (that is the frame is sold on all 4 sides) Everyone this lift idea did come straight off from my Brat and I've been running this lift for 8 to 9 yrs now. And I ran a web site on how to build this for 4 yrs I have sence took it down. It's a lot of hard work but then again it's not brain sugery either Hassey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogsubie Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Would you mind sharing your autocad dwg's? I've got cad at home and would love to take a look at those. If you don't want to share for propriatary reasons I understand. Thanks, Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam N.D.J. Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Yeah, I did leave out a few things (like the 3rd radius rod block), as I just made this up while I was bored over in Egypt. Some of the measurements in the cad are a little off, I was planning on actually sitting down and doing the measurements on my Brat then making a new one from there for everyone with cad programs. I actually have two cross runners on the front, one is my lower tranny mount, and the other is my engine mount (cause the engine and tranny are sitting up in the stock location, not on the stock mounts, for the T-case setup). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassey Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Thats the whole idea of this lift is that the engine and tranny do and will stay in the stock postion you will have to extend the linkage both shifter and the hi/lo, engine suport, steering linkage. hassey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByTheSea Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Hassey, You lowered the suspension without droping the motor/tranny the same amount? When I look at my ea-82 I see that at rest the DOJ and CV centerlines are offset about 2". I just twisted a DOJ to full lock on my kitchen table and it allows about 8" offset total(but the cv has more room to play). If you lifted a ea-82 6" and kept the tranny in the same relative position to the body as stock you'd be running the axle right around full lock all the time. Anyway I'm assuming that ea-81 and ea-82 axles are similar. Do the DOJs and CVs hold up for you? Is the travel in/out on the DOJ sufficient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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