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Start problems & CE light


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21 replies to this topic

#1 go_mo_bryth

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 06:04 AM

Let me take you back... having problems starting the car. Sometimes would turn over and over and not start until I had turned off ignition and then back on. Then next time, it would start on first crank. Then, a few weeks later after doing some errands at the mallo, came out to find that when I turned the key, there was nothing. No ignition click, no motor turning over, no rattle/click when starter motor is not engaging, NOTHING! Tried tapping starter (worked before) - nothing. Took off battery cables & put back on - nothing. Turned off command start + took off cables & put back on - nothing. Finally, removed battery cables, sat for 5 minutes without connected, wiped battery posts (I use grease on posts for better connectivity), put cables back on, turned on command start, & VOILA! It started. NO idea what it was. Then on way home, CE light came on. Took it into Mechanic and he said indication was MAF. Replaced MAF with rebuilt one ($250 Cdn) as new one is $600 (Yikes) but CE came back on 3 days later. At same time the CE started coming on, engine will rev to 3000 rpm on start up and then take 5 or 6 minutes to drop back to normal 700 rpm regardless of the outside temp. Mechanic says might take 2 or 3 rebuilt MAF sensors to fix the problem but I don't want to pay the $150 Cdn to find that out! lol Any ideas from long time owners/fixers? Thanks in advance. Signed: "Frustrated beyond belief" ps...will an old battery do this? Battery is 4 1/2 years old

#2 johnceggleston

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 06:25 AM

knowing the car, year, trans and miles will help.
any other recent work?

#3 Gloyale

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 09:29 AM

Clean all ground connections

1 at the block near starter.

1 where battery cable meets body, near battery

2 on front inner frame rail, 1 each side

1 or 2 at each strut tower

I will bet this eliminates the issue.

#4 nipper

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 10:38 AM

knowing the car, year, trans and miles will help.
any other recent work?


Yes we really cant tell you anything without that information, unless you just want to throw money at the car.


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#5 Fairtax4me

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 09:27 PM

Did you get the actual code that was set? Most parts stores will scan a CEL for free. Post up the code if you can get it.

#6 go_mo_bryth

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 09:29 PM

The car is a 1995 Legacy 2.2 L 4 cyl; auto trans; 211,000 kms; replaced the throttle positioning sensor a year or so ago; and replaced camshaft position sensor in late '08. In addition, have a remote car starter in the car which has quit working. When first started to go, just the lights stopped coming on when it started. Then it quit altogether so that now, nothing happens when I press the button. This command start has made me an expert in replacing the starter...which has been done 4 times in the just about 5 years we've owned the car. Co-inky-dink? Maybe...possibly...not sure. Hope this helps. I'll be cleaning the grounds tomorrow night.

#7 Fairtax4me

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 09:38 PM

If the remote starter is inoperable you should remove it and patch up the wires that it's attached to. Malfunctioning alarm systems often run down batteries and cause other problems such as preventing the car from starting.

Thinking about the returning MAF code, make sure the clamps on the intake tube are tight.

#8 Log1call

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 09:41 PM

There is meant to be a start signal going into the ecu as you turn the key to crank position, without that signal they are hard to start. It should set a code though. The start signal tells it to use a set figure for ignition timing because the signals from the crank and cam aren't reliable enough at cranking speeds. That could explain hard starting.

The high idle might be a result of the hard start. the ISC valve may get cranked right over to high idle as you are trying to start then it could take a while to get moved back down. It should really be able to get wound back to the right idle speed fairly quickly but if it's a bit stick at the end of it's travel....

See if they can check the start signal is getting to the ecu.

Prolonged cranking can set cam, crank and MAf codes too by the way.

#9 go_mo_bryth

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 09:46 PM

I have a switch that turns the remote starter off. I wonder if turning this off will help?

#10 go_mo_bryth

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 10:05 PM

Would an older battery (been in the car for almost 5 years) be suspect too? I was thinking of replacing it this fall.

#11 Log1call

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 10:08 PM

I'd be suspecting the key switch first. If it cranks for a while then it's not likely to be the battery. The intermittent no go sounds like a key switch problem. The hard starting could be caused by the key/no start signal. The high idle could be caused by the no start.

#12 go_mo_bryth

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 06:22 AM

I take it you mean ignition switch? We (the mechanic) and I thought about that one. But the codes are not indicating that it is that. Something else to look at, I guess. *sigh*

#13 nipper

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:31 AM

I take it you mean ignition switch? We (the mechanic) and I thought about that one. But the codes are not indicating that it is that. Something else to look at, I guess. *sigh*



Codes are a TOOL, not a diagnoses.


Lets go back to car repair 101.
The first step for weird starter motor issues is to rig a light from the starter solenoid (switch lead) and put that bulb where you can see it. Then you have to wait for it to fai to start. If the ligt comes on when you turn the key to start and there is no crank, the ignition switch is fine.


Get yourself a haynes manual. Look up how to test the crank position sensor.

There is zero reasons to replace the starter in a subaru, as a- you can inherit someone elses starter contatc issues (if it is used), b- subarus starters are rarely the problem. Have you checked the Neutral saftey switch (inhibitor) and the clutch pedal saftey switch?

#14 go_mo_bryth

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 11:24 AM

Just got back from my mechanic's (Murray) garage. The code is P1101 according to his OBDII reader. Says something about a Neutral Position Switch. However, he's not sure about it. I'm convince (in my completely unprofessional opinion) that it's the damn command start that isn't working properly any more. Murray thinks the installers might have nicked one of the wires or something's come loose.

I was going to try cleaning all the grounds later today and then will book the car in to get the old command start taken out. I'd like to see Murray look at the car without anything interfering. *shrug* But by all means keep sending me your 2 cents worth. Thanks! Gord

ps...got a Haynes manual btw. 8) And the car is an automatic.

#15 nipper

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 11:52 AM

The wierd idle speed does fit in with a bad NSS (inhibitor switch in subaru speak).

Replace it and everything may just go away.


It's not an unusual cause and effect thing.

nipper

#16 Log1call

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 02:40 PM

Yeah, that will effect idling. You definately need to fix that and then see what happens. Seems a bit strange though that it sometimes cranks but doesn't start. Might be some other factors at play as well.

#17 go_mo_bryth

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 10:02 PM

How hard is the Neutral safety switch aka inhibitor to replace by onesy's own self? I had a look at it in the Haynes manual and it doesn't look like fun. Also how much are these puppies new...in Cdn $$?

I will be taking the car in next week to get the old command start taken out to return things to "normal" and then see if that clears things up. I hate (as does my mechanic) to put new parts in if'n I don't need to. Oh, I know it means the car will run longer...eventually....hahaha...but don't need to keep throwing new parts at it replacing under the sun until we get just the right part. Want to make sure we get right part now!:banghead:

#18 johnceggleston

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 06:11 AM

How hard is the Neutral safety switch aka inhibitor to replace by onesy's own self? I had a look at it in the Haynes manual and it doesn't look like fun. Also how much are these puppies new...in Cdn $$?

I will be taking the car in next week to get the old command start taken out to return things to "normal" and then see if that clears things up. I hate (as does my mechanic) to put new parts in if'n I don't need to. Oh, I know it means the car will run longer...eventually....hahaha...but don't need to keep throwing new parts at it replacing under the sun until we get just the right part. Want to make sure we get right part now!:banghead:


i don't remember exactly, but it 's pretty simple, one nut and a wire connector. it's a pretty simple device.

i wouldn't spend the money removing the command/remote start. what ever that costs would be better spent on the part.

maybe your mechanic can figure a way to "jump out" the switch, wire it temporarily so the car thinks it is working properly, to see if that eliminates the problem. a much better way to spend your money.

you have diagnostic code telling you have a problem, spend your time and money there first.

#19 go_mo_bryth

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 08:41 PM

I bought a new battery today (old one almost 5 yrs old) and priced out an inhibitor switch. $65 Cdn (not bad) but not in stock. *shaking head* So will have to try the new battery first and then if that doesn't fix the problem, will order the new inhibitor switch. I'll let you guys know how it all turns out. Thanks for the help so far. It is so greatly appreciated.

BTW...saw a new 2010 Outback. *holding nose* Ewwww... don't like it one bit. Whatever happened to keeping them small and sweet looking. It's almost as big as the Tribeca and much less Outback like. Is this GM's interference...being they're part owner? Looks more like an Equinox/Torrent unfortunately. Why couldn't they just leave well enough alone? There was nothing wrong with the old designs. And what's this that they are discontinuing the Legacy wagon? *sigh* sniff* What is the world coming to?

#20 Fairtax4me

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 10:07 PM

Is this GM's interference...being they're part owner?


Huh? :confused: You sure you're not thinking about Saab or Saturn?

#21 go_mo_bryth

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 11:43 PM

Okay, I am wrong on this...GM USED to be a shareholder in the Subaru...or rather Fuji Heavy Industries. However, it seems their share has been sold off..."Toyota Motor will buy an 8.7 percent position in Fuji Heavy Industries, parent company of Subaru, from General Motors. GM, which currently owns 20 percent of Fuji, will sell its remaining 11.4 percent stake into a Fuji open-market share buy-back program, completely liquidating its position in Fuji by the end of the week.

The Toyota part of the deal is worth $309 million to GM. The value of the Fuji share buy-back will be depend on the open market value of the shares.

The deal allowed GM to restate its second quarter financials to show a $700 million to $800 million reduction in the carrying costs of its Fuji Heavy position.

All Saab-Subaru joint developments will be dropped, except for ongoing supply for Saab's 9-2x."

My bad! hahah

It's still big and clunky and not at svelt and sophisticated like it used to be. Bigger is not always better!

#22 Olnick

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 12:33 AM

GM owned a chunk of Subaru but sold it off a few years ago, then Toyota bought in.

Edit: Sorry, hadn't seen your follow up when I answered!

Edited by Olnick, 10 October 2009 - 12:40 AM.





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