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bad ticking


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26 replies to this topic

#1 fiddler

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 02:33 PM

My 93 loyale is ticking rather badly... I was reading some of the other threads on this and see that most agree on the lifters and cold weather or poor choice of oil as being the main culprit.. I live in MI, and it's cold.. so what kind of oil should I be puting in it??? or any other suggestions

#2 Skip

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 02:40 PM

I run 20w/50 Castrol GTX with half can of MMO
(Marvel Mystery Oil) all year long.
BUT please read what others say

What will quiet my lifters

#3 Meeky Moose

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 02:41 PM

ticking, the all time subaru question..

most of the time the ticking is caused by the o-rings in the oil pump gone bad.. the o-ring kit can be bought at napa for under $10..

now as far as oil goes, i always run castrol gtx 10w40 or 20w50 depending on which car and the mileage.. and 1/4 bottle of MMO

i also only use purolator pure one oil filters..

if your ticking never stops no matter if the engine is warm or cold, i would say your oil pump needs some new o-rings.. pretty easy fix really..

#4 fiddler

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 03:06 PM

I went to napa but all I found was the mounting gasket for the oil pump.. is that what I'm looking for or no

#5 Meeky Moose

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 03:14 PM

heres an older post with lots of part #'s of what you need

it explains more than i can.. oil pump thread

#6 heep70

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 03:47 PM

I have the same problem. It just started last week. I replaced the oil pump seals and it is still is making noise. It doesn't do it when it sits overnight, but it starts when I have drivin it for around 15 miles. It gets really loud and quitens down then gets loaud again. I am running 10w-30 castrol w/ a quart of hy-per lube. It has plenty of oil pressure, never goes under 40lbs idling and up to 85lbs on the highway. So I ask, what am I to do next?


I was going to start new thread on this because I am not finding the right info I need. I saw this one and thought I would hitch a ride. Hopefully this is cool. Thanks

#7 Erik R

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 10:48 PM

Check out this page: http://homepage.powe..._lifter_fix.htm

Of course, I read it after I had already pulled my engine, removed my cam case and replaced my lash adjusters..............:banghead:

#8 heep70

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 11:00 PM

Originally posted by Erik R
Check out this page: http://homepage.powe..._lifter_fix.htm

Of course, I read it after I had already pulled my engine, removed my cam case and replaced my lash adjusters..............:banghead:



Erik, I read this article earlier, infact I made a copy of it. Can the o-rings be (easily?) replaced while the engine is in the car? I have never been under the valve covers on this type of engine.

I also considered trying a different oil weight, but I almost think that would be a wast. It sounds to be only one lash adjuster that is doing it, or at least only the one side of the engine is doing it. Making me point at these o-rings. Thanks, Greg

#9 Erik R

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 11:14 PM

Are fairly easy. Do it like it says in the manuals for timing belt change............it's easy from there. Make sure your oil pump shaft is not scored too badly where the seal rides, or you may want to get a different seal that will ride on fresh metal. THere is a post regarding that thin seal on here already......... Better to get the seals from the dealer, good quality and EXACT fit.

My lash adjusters were really bad, sounded like a rod knock. I drove it for 14 months before I fixed it, with only a slight loss of power and fuel economy....................If you need to change your timing belts anyway; I would go for the whole job, then you don't have to have doubts about it later.....................the lash adjuster thing is always going to be an issue with these engines..........more so as they age, IMHO.

#10 junkyardgabe

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 11:22 PM

fiddler- i'd only use 20/50 during the summer because where you are doesn't it get pretty cold there so i'd use 10/30 right now but i'd still add the mmo to it for right now
heep70-going to a thicker won't help my did the same thing and the only thing to fix it is the o-rings

#11 heep70

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 11:25 PM

I already did the oil pump rebuild. There was only two seals I found. An o-ring and a mickey mouse shaped one. Is that right? I have great oil pressure. The oil pump looked in pretty good shape. Man, I was just all in the last weekend. I guess I should had asked some questions about this issue then. Oh-well, here we go again. Thanks again

#12 Bishop

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Posted 02 February 2004 - 11:46 PM

Man, you guys dissapoint me. You should all be running synthetic oil. . .AND an additive, especially in the cold. I totally agree on the MMO, but Rislone is a good one to. Thats the ONLY way to prevent the lifters from clattering in a motor with some wear on it.

I've found it doesn't hurt to run 5w-30 or even 5w-40 in the winter.

And don't forget to get an oil filter that ISN'T a Fram. They tend to disintigrate in synthetic oil.

#13 Skip

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 08:11 AM


See below for this "engine in the car" addressable item

Lifter Gallery pressure control You guys POO POO this , don't use this, must use this???
Did the fiddler leave the building??


#14 Meeky Moose

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Bishop
Man, you guys dissapoint me. You should all be running synthetic oil. . .AND an additive, especially in the cold. I totally agree on the MMO, but Rislone is a good one to. Thats the ONLY way to prevent the lifters from clattering in a motor with some wear on it.

I've found it doesn't hurt to run 5w-30 or even 5w-40 in the winter.

And don't forget to get an oil filter that ISN'T a Fram. They tend to disintigrate in synthetic oil.



sorry to disagree with ya here on the synthetic and the rislone..
that combination may be good.. but from personal experience with a subaru wagon (ea82T) i think synthetic is a waste in these engines, especially since they like to leak..

me old wagon had 290k original.. always had castrol 10w40/20w50 mix with 1/4 bottle MMO in it.. it never ticked, and only used at the most a quart between oil changes.. was prolly leaking it cause it never smoked either.. in fact i still have the motor sitting here in the shop.. engines still purrs like a kitten (but prolly needs headgaskets) anyways.. thats just my .02 and personal experience.. 290k original on an ea82T says alot..

#15 mdjdc

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 08:57 AM

I had the same problem with my turbo after I put a used motor in. I changed the lifters twice and the noise stayed. I talked with my subaru guru and he recommended that I replace the oil pump. I had great pressure, but he said these engines need high volume and pressure. I went ahead and replaed the pump and the problem was gone immediately. Now I did put nes seals on with the new pump, so maybe that was the fix as you have said earlier. Personally, I hate having to tear into the engine more than once and I had the 100.00 to put into the pump so I'm glad I did it. Next time this happens I will try to replace just the seals and see what happens.

Oh, by the way, the mechanic said that the lifters almost never go bad. It is always the pump. So start there. The job is easier than the cam gally seal.

#16 Skip

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 09:43 AM

MD speaks of the Antarctic endangered species i.e. the gally seal so he must know what he's talking about.

Wouldn't it be great if people learned to use the "preview" feature?


#17 Bishop

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 02:52 PM

Well, I'm sure that there is more than one way to run an engine, and we have all obviously had success with our own combinations, but in my experience running synthetic helps to clear up the lifter clatter.
I've put 2 used EA82T motors in different cars over the years, and they both came with the lifter clatter. Also, my original subaru (an 86 turbo wagon) developed lifter clatter at about 80k and that is when I started trying to find out how to eliminate the problem. I asked mechanics around and most of them recommended either rislone, or synthetic. I tried one, then the other, but in the end only the combo of the two cleared it up. Of course the 86 Turbo was notorious for low oil pressure, and Subaru even made an increased flow impeller for the oil pump (I wish I could remember that part number:mad: ) that cost me about $35 sometime in 1996. But for about 2 years in the meantime, I found that running high viscosity 5w-50 Syntech with Rislone kept the engine quiet even with oil pressure below 10 pounds (engine at idle). I also noticed that the engine ran cooler in the summer, and generaly used LESS oil than when I was running Valvoline. The car ran to 180k with no problems, no leaks, and hardly any oil usage when the top radiator hose blew and put an end to her :(
So, I have to say that my method works too, even if others work equaly well:D

#18 fiddler

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 07:26 PM

so should I be driving the car??? or fix it as soon as posible... I'm fine with fixing it but it's freezing outside and I realy have no where to do it right now... is it likely to damage it more to wait???

#19 MaroonDuneDoom

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 07:49 PM

it's not very urgent. i have driven with a slight tick for several thousand miles. sounds like you're wanting to get to it pretty soon though. i'd just wait for it to warm up or maybe wait for some tme when you're in the mood to go at it. good luck, but this is the ultimate subaru message board and you asked the ultimate subaru question. i'd be willing to bet that a great deal of us currently have some clatter under the hood. i just deal with mine becuse i don't realy want to tear into it.

#20 Partsman

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 08:52 PM

No worries dude - I've been ticking off and on for a year and a half! Fix it at next timing belt change. But feel free to try the various engine flush/marvel mystery oil/oil change suggestions at your oil changes - probably won't fix it, but it might!

#21 heep70

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Posted 04 February 2004 - 12:24 AM

I am making the attempt right now. Mine is ticking VERY loud. Sounds to be only one, if you will, lifter on one side. I figure while I am in there a might as well take them apart.

Can I leave the disty attached to the cam basket. That thing does not want to come out. I am thinking I should just remove every hose around it and bring them both out a one.

#22 mdjdc

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Posted 04 February 2004 - 08:58 AM

Heep

Before you go through sll of that work on the lifters I would replace the pump. As I said earlier My friend is the lead subaru mechanic at a local dealer. He told me that in the eighties they sold tons of lifters to independant mechanics who later came back for new pumps. They warned the mechanics first, but they never listened. He said the lifters never go out. The problem is a loss of oil volume. If you fix that the lifter will clean itself out and work fine. I've had this problem on three different cars and a simple pump change fixed the problem. The ticking stopped within a minute or two of running the car after the replacement.

I'm hard headed and have learned that doing all of he extra work only uses up my time and aggravates me to no end. Now I listen to the mechanic and replace the parts the first time. It has saved me alot of time and frustration.

Good luck

#23 heep70

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Posted 04 February 2004 - 09:19 AM

mdjdc,

This engine only has 102,200 miles on the clock, but yes I am considering replacing the pump. Only one lifter on one side ticks really loud and the rest on that side tick but not as loud. The other side is quit. The seams of the cam basket and head are wet from oil. I figure that the little o-rings are on there way out. I understand what you mean about being a hard head and the idea of listening. I am right there beside ya. Thanks

#24 Skip

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Posted 04 February 2004 - 09:36 AM

Greg, before getting all ripped apart, you might want to check the copper washers on the banjo bolt for the pressure relief valve. If the bolt/washers are leaking pressure into the cam case, the lifters may not see enough pressure to pump up properly. You said you did reseal the pump but only found one 0 ring? There is a seal behind the pulley did you change that? There is also one behind the outer rotor.
And I take exception to mdjdc remark
to wit:
a simple pump change
I looked at the cars in his sig. and if these are the cars he is referring to, something is wrong with his statement.
Tearing the entire front off of an EA82 is not a simple job.
Atleast as far as my hands are concerned, maybe to his wallet it is?
Couple this with the number of guys that have said a replacement of the pumps 0-rings and MM pump to block 0-ring, vs
an entire new pump,
well his I think, his wallet is talking again.
Please MD - do not take this as any form of slam on your techniques, some of us do not have the wherewithal to throw copious quantities of money at our cars and must run CAP
(Cheap As Possible) Therefore
I apologize for my comments.


#25 heep70

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Posted 04 February 2004 - 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Skip
Greg, before getting all ripped apart, you might want to check the copper washers on the banjo bolt for the pressure relief valve. If the bolt/washers are leaking pressure into the cam case, the lifters may not see enough pressure to pump up properly.
And I take exception to mdjdc remark
to wit:
a simple pump change
I looked at the cars in his sig. and if these are the cars he is referring to, something is wrong with his statement.
Tearing the entire front off of an EA82 is not a simple job.
Atleast as far as my hands are concerned, maybe to his wallet it is?
Couple this with the number of guys that have said a replacement of the pumps 0-rings and MM pump to block 0-ring, vs
an entire new pump,
well his I think, his wallet is talking again.





Skip, Explian the location of the "bango bolt and the copper washers". I am not all that familliar with this engines.

So, you are saying that a pump reseal should do the trick? I allready replaced the o-ring and the mickey mouse gasket, but I did not replace the seal on the shaft. I didn't know about it. That will be done on this job. I don't want to put the blame on the oil pump because the lfter noise is only real bad on the drivers side. What is your thoughts?

It could possibly not be the little o-ring under the cam basket?

I will take any info on this issue. My time for getting this thing road worthy is running really short.




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