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More axle blues


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17 replies to this topic

#1 paulpicard

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 06:47 PM

I'm in the middle of replacing a front axle assy. on my 92 Loyale (non-turbo) I've done both sides on the old EA-81 I had a few years ago, and thanks to USMB and Ed Rach's procedure, I learned how to do 'em. This time it went smoothly as far as the removal process, but the new (not a reman) Cardone unit won't pass through the bearing bore at all, and when I tried removing the outer hub I succeeded in rounding off the 3rd bolt. So I can't get at the threaded end in order to pull it through with the axle nut. I notice, however, that there's a shallow hole machined into the end of the outer shaft. Has anyone ever threaded this in order to pull it through with a piece of ready-rod? Or am I stuck with somehow getting the outer hub off??

#2 grossgary

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 06:53 PM

first find out why it won't install, it's not a tight fit, it should slide right in easily with zero effort. so it must be the wrong axle or corrosion or something else?

the axle should not be forced through. if it won't slide in normally then file the insides of the hub splines to smooth them out, get rid of rust, build up or grime. make sure none of the filing/dirt get into the bearings.

#3 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 07:01 PM

Well - eventually you may want to replace that brake disc so you should probably get going on getting the hub removed from it.

I have done..... maybe hundreds of these now.

When I do them, my technique is to leave everything on except the hub. I remove the axle nut, unbolt the hub from the disc, and drive the axle through - leaving the disc and brakes still attached to the knuckle.

Then on reassembly, the brake disc acts like a pivot point for my pry-bars. It's important for the axle to be centered while you pry it through. Insert the axle as far as you can, and thread the nut on. I pry a little, then with a dead-blow I center up the axle in the bearings and pry a bit more. Thread the nut down a bit farther and repeat. When you run out of nut, put the cone-washer under the nut but flip it around so the flat side is availible for your pry-bars to grab.

By the time you run out of pry-bar grip on the nut+cone washer, you can just install the hub and pull the axle the rest of the way in with your imapact.

I have this down to where I can replace an axle in about 15 minutes - assuming everything comes apart without fuss. I usually pull the ball joint out of the knuckle to get the neccesary room to pull the axle off the tranny. If that's too badly stuck I'll just pull the inner control arm bolt and the sway bar link.

There are also sometimes burrs on the axles - check for high spots. A bit of anti-seize on the shaft as you insert it will tell you where the high-spots are. Sometimes a bit of dressing with a grinding stone (by hand) is needed.

GD

#4 paulpicard

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 07:23 PM

first find out why it won't install, it's not a tight fit, it should slide right in easily with zero effort. so it must be the wrong axle or corrosion or something else?

the axle should not be forced through. if it won't slide in normally then file the insides of the hub splines to smooth them out, get rid of rust, build up or grime. make sure none of the filing/dirt get into the bearings.

gg, the old one came out without a lot of grief - just the usual hammering. So I don't think there's a lot of corrosion. Thing is, it won't even get anywhere near the splined hub. It's a new (not reman) Cardone unit that I double-checked the part # on so I'm pretty sure it's the right part.
GD said: "When I do them, my technique is to leave everything on except the hub. I remove the axle nut, unbolt the hub from the disc, and drive the axle through - leaving the disc and brakes still attached to the knuckle" That's exactly what I did, except the outer hub bolts were so tight I had to repeatedly heat them (and tap "em with a hammer), and even then the 3rd bolt rounded off before it would loosen. I'm concerned with breaking one off at this point, thus my question about tapping the axle shaft in order to pull it through.

#5 grossgary

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 07:31 PM

i thought this was a legacy, not loyale, so im' not familiar with EA82 stuff as XT6's are different (they are like EJ's).

i've had axles not go in before just because the splines needed some filing though. didn't even look bad and axle came out fine, but some filing/cleaning inside and they slid right in. i've had that happen once or twice, otherwise all of mine have always slid in effortlessly.

#6 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 09:05 PM

I would just break the sucker's off. It's easy enough to get another hub or a new brake disc if you can't easily get the peice out once you have broken off the heads.

Snap the heads off the bolts, and then pull the hub off. Or pull the whole disc/hub assembly off and then pry the axle through just using the nut and the knuckle. It's not as easy this way but can be done. Helps to have a few bits of wood or some big washers to get a better purchase with your pry-bars.

GD

#7 john in KY

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 09:50 PM

Don't know this for certain but I think there is an inner and outer bearing with a sleeve between them. the sleeve can move around in the bore and if it is out of alignment with the bearings, there is no way the axle will slide through the knuckle.

#8 paulpicard

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 12:35 PM

Don't know this for certain but I think there is an inner and outer bearing with a sleeve between them. the sleeve can move around in the bore and if it is out of alignment with the bearings, there is no way the axle will slide through the knuckle.

I think you're right, I can feel something loose in there. I intend to pull the hub and rotor assy. and go from there. According to Haynes I can unbolt the caliper, it's mounting bracket, and just pop the rotor off.

#9 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 01:27 PM

I've never had an issue with the spacer's holding up the axle. The splines and the bit where the cone-washer locks to the shaft are tapered enough to push the spacer out of the way. It sounds to me like you just have a normal fit into the bearings and aren't able to get it through far enough to pry it into place. They aren't supposed to just slide in - the fit is not interferance but it is zero clearance.

You are correct on the caliper and bracket. Three bolts and it's off.

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder, 15 November 2009 - 09:47 PM.


#10 paulpicard

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 08:44 PM

I've never had an issue with the spacer's holding up the axle. The splines and the bit where the cone-washer locks to the shaft are tapered enough to push the spacer out of the way. It sounds to me like you just have a normal fit into the bearings and aren't able to get it through far enough to pry it into place. They aren't supposed to just slide in - the fit is not interferance but it is zero cleanrance.

You are correct on the caliper and bracket. Three bolts and it's off.

GD

Well, this car definitely spent time in the rust belt before finding it's way to BC. I got one caliper bracket bolt out, but the other (top) was so badly corroded I couldn't even force an undersized socket onto it. So I went back to the rounded-off outer hub bolt, drilled and e/z-outed it and the hub is off. GD, I agree re: the spacer - the new axle wiggled it's way past it and I now have enough protruding that I can use the nut and my collection of ABS spacers ( made after the EA-81 axle re & re's) to work it through the bearings and finish the job. Right after I go to the parts store tomorrow AM for a couple of new bolts of course!! Thanks to all for the suggestions. Let me add one more - never start these jobs on a Saturday unless your local parts guy is open Sundays!!!:rolleyes:

#11 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 09:53 PM

Yeah - tell me about it :rolleyes:

I just got done pulling an engine this morning only to find the parts store that my customer got the clutch kit at botched the throwout bearing. Kit looked fine but when I opened the box for the throwout I got a nice surprise - wrong part! Of course they aren't open on Sunday's so I'm stuck till tomorrow with the engine hanging from the hoist.

Glad you are unstuck though. I've had only some small tastes of what the rust-belt can do. I've worked on a few that spent a couple years out there but nothing that's spent it's entire life there.

GD

#12 robm

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 10:46 AM

British Columbia IS the rust belt. Salt air, salt on the roads, lots of rain, slush, and snow. Washington State cars may be rust free, but that is not the case a few miles north of the 49th parallel. And the further north, the worse it gets, until about the middle of the province.

#13 paulpicard

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 11:51 PM

OK, it's done. Only one issue I want to mention here, and it concerns the fit of the roll pin (DOJ end) into the Cardone new (not a reman) replacement. In a word, it doesn't. I had to re-use an older pin, and still it would not completely pass through the stub and engage the other side of the DOJ collar. Yes, I triple-checked the spline orientation and duplicated that of the just removed unit. The Cardone replacement (P/N 66-7008) did not have an obvious chamfered entrance hole like the old one (and the 2 prev. reman units I put into my old EA81) The spline count and the fit are correct, and the axle length is the same as the removed unit. (Yes I read the thread about the axle falling out). So the roll pin is 2/3rds of the way in and thats how it'll stay for now. Any comments?

Edited by paulpicard, 16 November 2009 - 11:54 PM.


#14 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 01:43 AM

I would probably have measured the hole and the opened it up a bit with a proper sized drill bit.

All these "new" replacement axles are made in China. Doesn't surprise me. I stick with the EMPI stuff personally, but it's not always the easiest for people to find.

GD

#15 mdjdc

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 07:09 AM

I think you have the axle 180 degrees out on the tranny stub. Take the axle off the shaft and ratate it 180 degrees and I bet the roll pin holes will line up perfectly and you will be able to drive the pin thru. It seem weird that there would be an orientation to the hole and the pin, but there is. I have had this happen to me a few times. Try this and I believe that your problem will go away.

#16 robm

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 10:33 AM

The reason is there is an odd number of splines. It can only line up one way. You can't turn it exactly 180 deg., it will have to go 180+ or 180-, to line up the splines, and then the holes won't be aligned.

Too bad the new DOJ doesn't have the chamfer. Who sells the Cardone axles in BC, anyway?

Rob.

#17 Frank B

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 10:54 AM

I put two NEW Cardone axles on my Loyale a while back, I got them when they where on sale for $48.00 shipped on Amazon. Anyway, two boxes, same part number, same box, but two different manufacturers. They both fit and went on fine but they were made by two different companies, different paint, quality, clamps etc. So it's hard to tell where they came from!

#18 paulpicard

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 12:47 PM

I tried the pin in both ways. Actually I use a long 3/16 punch to be sure the holes are aligned - if they aren't, the punch will meet a definite step. I did this several times before I was sure they were aligned correctly. The new pin de-formed the first time I tried so I re-used the old one. It went in smoothly until meeting up with the other side of the collar. I think next time I go under there it'll be with a drill (or reamer) cause I'm not taking the axle out again!!




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