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2000 Forester 5spd NA FAQ's


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10 replies to this topic

#1 paulpicard

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 08:02 PM

A friend is considering a 2000 Forester - apparently a very clean, ex-California (88,000miles) car presently in Vancouver BC. I am at a 300 km. disadvantage, so I suggested she ensure the timing belt has been serviced by the book, and that everything else drives and works as advertised. What I can't tell her with any accuracy is an estimated cost (in hours) that a reputable shop would charge for the belt service, and whether she should expect to change out cam seals, idlers, tensioner, etc., as I did on the Loyale. (my guess is 4-5 hours for the belt re and re) Any other advice is gratefully accepted. Plus anyone in the Vancouver area got a recommendation for a shop?? (Just heard she bought the car, so the service info will be even more appreciated)

Edited by paulpicard, 23 November 2009 - 09:18 PM.
Went from looking to bought :)


#2 89Ru

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 08:47 AM

(+) California = no rust
Don't know if Calif. emissions are a factor...
88Kmi is a good find for 2000

Re: timing belt
Tensioner replace unless have a hydraulic press and gauge

Two options on Idlers much discussed here
replace (ebay kit) includes water pump
or inspect for bearing play and roll on
I'd replace if the car came from desert conditions

Tbelt replacement is 105K, sooner if harsh conditions (desert)
'serviced by the book' is pretty much inspect only until past the mileage for replace

crank seal replace
cam seals replace if leaking

#3 grossgary

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 08:58 AM

local dealer charges $699 for belt only.

any leaking seals should be replaced, they at least need to be inspected, slapping a new timing belt on without checking is unacceptable. verifying they check is the hard part.

same with pulleys. they are VERY expensive to replace from Subaru, you'll want an independent or someone to do it for you if you start replacing pulleys as well. the sprocketed idler is the most likely to fail.

considering that she's buying this car right now, she would likely see it last another 100,000 miles - i'd suggest doing it right, replacing any pulleys that need it with the belt.

check for torque bind too on any 4WD vehicle.

#4 paulpicard

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 12:32 PM

oops

Edited by paulpicard, 24 November 2009 - 12:38 PM.
double post


#5 paulpicard

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 12:35 PM

89 and gg, thanks a lot. I agree with your comments (basically the same care and feeding as an EA82) I did read the thread re the e-bay kit. Also was unaware the replacement schedule is 105K miles, so she should be OK. Also, licenced used car lots in BC apparently now must include a car's history (carfax??) and the mileage checked out. It was imported to Vancouver area in '05. Emissions are not an issue as CA. requirements are slightly tighter than ours, and the car's inspection is current. So all I gotta do is find a good shop in Van. C'mon, you BC guys!! Where is it??

Edited by paulpicard, 24 November 2009 - 12:37 PM.


#6 edrach

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 08:53 PM

So all I gotta do is find a good shop in Van. C'mon, you BC guys!! Where is it??

You're only a short drive to the Seattle area. I can think of four shops down here that I'd trust to do the work required. Figure $1500US give or take $500 depending on what they find.

#7 grossgary

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 11:43 PM

major differences between this and old school EA82's:

this is an interference engine. if the EA82 belt breaks, no big deal. if the belt breaks on this EJ25 you'll incur internal engine damage. that's why there's so much more talk about pulleys and tensioners on these motors than the EA stuff, though I like to do those too (but they're cheaper parts).

one belt, very easy to replace actually. anyone mechinically inclined can do it and Subaru has excellent information for those wanting to do it themselves on their endwrench site - Johnceggleston (member here) has a link in his signature to the timing belt articles! clever guy he is.

they're really easy, the belt can be done in an hour, but normally takes a good bit longer if you're doing other stuff while it's off - like seals, pump, etc.

#8 torxxx

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 12:00 AM

699 for a timing belt job is a rip.

its 2.8 hours book time to do the job and usually around 90-100 an hr labor rate. Its such a low mileage engine that the pulleys etc are prolly fine. if you arent hearing a grinding or whirring noise from the front of the engine, the pulleys are most likely fine.

The entire test the tensioner thing is a load of crap. I've never done it, never had one fail (done 100's of the 96+ Ej22 and EJ25's). As long as its not leaking oil, and it takes around 2 to 3 minutes to compress it in a vice its fine. you dont wanna just crank the vice closed. it should be stiff and turn in easy on about 1/2 turn on the vice handle, then stiffen up. I usually do 1/2 turns at a time and wait 20 seconds or so and you'll feel it get easy to turn again.

the recommended mileage for timing belts should ALWAYS stay at 60k miles. 75k-105k is taking a BIG risk on 2 to 3000 dollars worth of repair of the belt breaks just because someone said they last that long. I dont care if the repair manual says 75k miles or 100k miles. Thats under ideal conditions (I.E. 60F to 90F temperature outside, no oil or coolant ever touched the belts, pulley surfaces are 100% smooth)

And for the seals, quick inspection is all thats needed. you will know if one is leaking. I'd be more worried about the water pump leaking at 88k miles vs seals leaking.

and this is a SOHC 2.5 gen 2 engine. Very, very easy to do a t-belt on. drain remove radiator, remove ac pulley and ps/alt belt. remove crank pulley, remove covers, set engine with all timing belt notches at 12 oclock remove tensioner, collapse tensioner in vice, use allen wrench to hold tensioner plunger in place, resinstall, slap belt on, put back together.

#9 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 12:14 AM

.the recommended mileage for timing belts should ALWAYS stay at 60k miles. 75k-105k is taking a BIG risk on 2 to 3000 dollars worth of repair of the belt breaks just because someone said they last that long. I dont care if the repair manual says 75k miles or 100k miles. Thats under ideal conditions (I.E. 60F to 90F temperature outside, no oil or coolant ever touched the belts, pulley surfaces are 100% smooth)


I disagree. Many, many timing belts in the automotive industry are now at 100k or longer interval. That is industry standard. EA82 belts are 60k because they are thin, and mechanically tensioned. Hydraulic tensioned, thick (as the EJ's are) belts installed with good quality tensioner and idler bearings as well as OEM quality water pumps and properly sealed against dust, debris, and fluids should easily last 100k.

At this point the materials technology of modern engines has come far enough that it shouldn't be a problem. And IMO, if you can't get at *least* 100k from a belt system then chains should be considered from an engineering standpoint.

EJ belts should be 105k and ALL seals, bearings, and the water pump should be done at the same time. That is good practice, it's a value to the customer, it's insurance, and it's the RIGHT way to do the job. Anything less at 100k interval's is plain stupidity - the parts are cheap and it adds maybe an hour of labor.

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder, 25 November 2009 - 12:18 AM.


#10 svxpert

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 11:31 AM

699 for a timing belt job is a rip.

its 2.8 hours book time to do the job and usually around 90-100 an hr labor rate. Its such a low mileage engine that the pulleys etc are prolly fine. if you arent hearing a grinding or whirring noise from the front of the engine, the pulleys are most likely fine.

The entire test the tensioner thing is a load of crap. I've never done it, never had one fail (done 100's of the 96+ Ej22 and EJ25's). As long as its not leaking oil, and it takes around 2 to 3 minutes to compress it in a vice its fine. you dont wanna just crank the vice closed. it should be stiff and turn in easy on about 1/2 turn on the vice handle, then stiffen up. I usually do 1/2 turns at a time and wait 20 seconds or so and you'll feel it get easy to turn again.

the recommended mileage for timing belts should ALWAYS stay at 60k miles. 75k-105k is taking a BIG risk on 2 to 3000 dollars worth of repair of the belt breaks just because someone said they last that long. I dont care if the repair manual says 75k miles or 100k miles. Thats under ideal conditions (I.E. 60F to 90F temperature outside, no oil or coolant ever touched the belts, pulley surfaces are 100% smooth)

And for the seals, quick inspection is all thats needed. you will know if one is leaking. I'd be more worried about the water pump leaking at 88k miles vs seals leaking.

and this is a SOHC 2.5 gen 2 engine. Very, very easy to do a t-belt on. drain remove radiator, remove ac pulley and ps/alt belt. remove crank pulley, remove covers, set engine with all timing belt notches at 12 oclock remove tensioner, collapse tensioner in vice, use allen wrench to hold tensioner plunger in place, resinstall, slap belt on, put back together.


i agree $699 is a rip. I charge $300 for SOHC belts. 105 for the t/b is fine. replace the water pump, cam and crank seals. no need to take out the radiator, plenty of room if you just take out the fans. take your time compressing the tensioner, never replaced one that wasnt leaking (never saw a leaking one either)

#11 paulpicard

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 06:19 PM

You guys are, as usual, a ton of worthwhile info, and thanks to all. Interesting difference of opinion re: belt life, though. I think, considering the age/mileage of the car I'll err on the side of caution and recommend she replaces basically the parts shown in the e-bay package as well as the belt - that should give her a good starting point for the next 150,000 klicks! Thanks also for the time estimates for the belt itself, and to endwrench site for the illustrated step-by-step. I won't be working on this car, but at least I can now emphasize why she should deal with a shop experienced in Soob work - the special tools for locking sprockets and crank would not be in my toolbox, although I'm sure I could jury-rig something :-\ edrach, if she decides to head stateside for the work, I'll ask you for details on the shops you'd recommend.




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