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EJ idle, clutch issues


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13 replies to this topic

#1 jrettenmayer

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 02:54 PM

Hi all,

Two things maybe someone who knows better than I can help me solve. First: Got the EJ running (seems to run well - it starts easily, anyhow). After it was running for a minute or so, I revved it up a bit, and when the RPMs settled down, they settled around 2,000 or so, which I'm assuming is a bit too high. Now, it's really cold here, so perhaps the car is just warming up? I let it run like that for a few minutes and it didn't seem to step down at all.

Next - I can't seem to get my clutch to disengage, and just wondered where I should start looking. I've never replaced my own clutch until now, but I'm pretty sure it would be tough to install it incorrectly...properly torqued everything, lightly greased the trans. input shaft...it all went together real smoothly. If i try to put it in gear while the engine is running, it just grinds. I didn't push it. Any suggestions? I did adjust the linkage as it was pretty sloppy after I put the engine it and hooked the cable up to the release fork. Maybe I just adjusted it incorrectly...

Thanks for the ideas!

#2 jrettenmayer

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 03:52 PM

Idle is resolved, but this clutch issue is killing me! I'm positive the clutch was installed correctly - flywheel side of disc facing flywheel - and I checked to see that the release bearing was smoothly moving on the input shaft. It engages the pressure plate (I can't really say how much, but I did see the pressure plate move - what appears to be correctly so that pressure is taken off the clutch disc). Still grinding instead of going into gear. What could be the problem? I didn't measure the step on the flywheel before it went in...I guess I assumed NAPA knew what they were doing. I played with the cable adjustments some more and that didn't seem to do anything. Even tightening up the adjustment so there wasn't any free play - thinking maybe it wasn't pushing on the pressure plate enough - didn't do anything besides make the pedal feel real stiff.

Any ideas?

#3 soobiedo

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 04:38 PM

Try bleeding the clutch, this may work. Have someone push the clutch to the floor, then open and close the bleeding nut on the hydraulic cylinder on the bell housing. You'll have to pull the clutch lever up by hand as it will tend to stay on the floor (after closing the bleeder nut of course), repeat a few times (makes sure you don't run out of fluid!), and see if that helps.

#4 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 04:47 PM

He doesn't have a hydro clutch.

Pull the engine and have a look. Something isn't right. Maybe NAPA screwed up the step.....though it's usually too deep rather than too shalllow so IDK. Maybe something didn't go together right.

Check that step with a caliper.

GD

#5 jrettenmayer

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 04:53 PM

Hmmm...hoping to avoid that, but...

Another question: When the pressure plate goes on, I tightened the down about 1/2 turn at a time in a star pattern - it felt sort of like it was spring loaded or something - I attributed that to the pressure plate doing what it's supposed to and putting pressure on the clutch disc and perhaps to friction on the plate by the alignment pins on the flywheel. Is that friction or spring-loaded feeling to be expected?

#6 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 06:29 PM

Yes - the pressure plate exerts pressure on the disc and so when you are tightening the bolts you will see the fingers on the plate flatten out and there is a slight resistance to the bolts. Not a lot through.

GD

#7 jrettenmayer

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 10:17 PM

Springs on the clutch disc face which direction?

#8 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 10:23 PM

Springs on the clutch disc face which direction?


They will only go toward the pressure plate. It won't assemble backwards.

GD

#9 jrettenmayer

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 03:44 PM

Hmmm...ok, you sure about that? It will at least slide onto the input shaft either way, but you're saying you can't bolt the pressure plate down if the friction disc is facing the wrong way? That doesn't leave me with many ideas then...unless the flywheel is cut to the wrong dimensions or something.

What are the chances the adapter plate is interfering and I'm just not getting the movement of throwout bearing I need to disengage the clutch? I'm assuming since so many others have done this conversion that that isn't really even an option.

Transmission shifted great (nice and smooth) before conversion, and shifts nice and smooth when the car isn't running.

#10 jrettenmayer

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 05:05 PM

Couple thoughts/ideas maybe someone here can help me answer...

First, how close should the throwout bearing be to the fingers on the pressure plate when the clutch pedal is not depressed? Touching? If i "snug" up the cable adjustment nut according to GD's write up on cable replacement, the throwout bearing is always touching the fingers of the pressure plate and spinning...which also makes the pedal feel the stiffest, too. I was hoping that maybe there was just some slack in the cable (there was, but it didn't solve my problem after I removed it).

Next observation: looking at the fingers on the old pressure plate I removed, they appear to be slightly convex (pointing at an angle away from the disc like this: disc---> |) <--- fingers). On the new pressure plate (from NAPA...not the dealer), the fingers look to be flatter or even a bit concave towards the disc. It's hard to tell because I can only peer down around the fork when I remove the rubber fork boot. When the clutch is depressed, the fingers on the pressure plate DO move, and I can see it moving in the right direction to take the pressure off the clutch disc....just doesn't seem to be enough.

Also, I noticed the fork is real close to hitting the transmission housing (~1/8" or less even from contact)...It doesn't seem to be hitting now, but worries me a bit. Anyone else that's done an EJ swap experience similar issues?

Also, if anyone might have a picture of two of their throwout bearing installed correctly and perhaps the clutch setup before it went into their car, that'd be terrific, just for a comparison.

Thanks!

#11 jrettenmayer

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 05:42 PM

GD - I looked and I see how you think putting the disc in backwards isn't possible - but I think it is...and I found another post on here by a guy with the exact same problem and I am having...new clutch, feels like garbage, won't disengage...his disc was backwards.

Makes sense to me now that I think about it - I do remember it being tough bolt the pressure plate down - tougher than I thought it would be. And I'm sure that the concave shape of the fingers on my pressure plate is because the disc is pressing on the friction surface of the pressure plate and forcing them in. Which is why I have my cable adjusted almost all the way in and still not enough to disengage the clutch, but enough to practically hit the tranny housing.

*sigh*...another day spent in the frigid weather of Montana in December trying to pull the engine for a stupid mistake...I betcha I don't make this mistake again!

#12 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 02:23 AM

Well - *maybe* you could bolt it down with it backwards.... but the damper springs are supposed to be on the pressure plate side and if you turn it around the disc friction surface doesn't even touch the flywheel surface....

That would be a monumental "DOH!". I hope it's that simple for you.

You'll be "learned" real good for next time :lol:

GD

#13 jrettenmayer

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 11:21 AM

Oh believe me... I feel pretty dang silly. "Doh!" is right. I guess I won't know for a few days here, as it's cold as sh*t here right now and it's the end of the semester for me, which means lots o' tests for the next few days...

Stay posted - I'll let you know if it is possible to put the disc in backwards or not. The best part is: I remember reading the instructions saying something like, "The friction disc is directional - make sure the side with 'flywheel side' goes towards the flywheel" or something along those lines. Doh!

#14 jrettenmayer

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 09:59 AM

Just an update for those interested/who may someday experience similar problems.

I finally got around to pulling the EJ out. I noticed that the fingers on my pressure plate were concave when viewed laterally. I removed the new pressure plate, thinking that maybe I had the friction disc in backwards and thus it was sticking out and engaging the pressure plate "early"... anyway, the fingers were in far enough when it was bolted up that the throwout bearing did nothing...and the clutch felt really stiff. Well, the friction disc wasn't backwards. Back to square one. I took out a micrometer and measured the step height on two different ea82 flywheels. The were about 0.030 in. different, but the one I was using was cut deeper, so that eliminated the possibility of the flywheel being cut too shallow. Hmmmm...only one possibility left. I looked at the new pressure plate, and the old. The new one was thicker than the old one. I measured - about 0.050 thicker. Ok....now we're getting somewhere. I cleaned up the old PP and mounted it up, and lo-and-behold the fingers were where they were supposed to be - basically flat. Took it off, remounted the new PP and same story. Concave fingers.

Long story short: NAPA was gracious enough to fix their "oops". The took back the PP and the clutch disc (that apparently was for a 2wd?) and gave me the right one. Haven't had a chance to try driving it yet, as it's all still being hooked up again, but the clutch pedal at least feels normal now. :banana::banana::banana::banana:




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