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Ea71 mod advice... HELP!!!


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#26 WoodsWagon

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 08:12 PM

WOW. I've never seen GD be this cool and helpful to someone with a bad attitude like this before. What's wrong with you man? You having a mellow off-day?

Ram engines are built for use in experimental aircraft. Constant RPM, constant load, not idle to redline variable load like you see in a car. So high horsepower/ torque #'s can be made, but the powerband is much smaller. Everything is optimized for a certian RPM, not a wide flat torque band like you need to move a car.

That aside, I belive the EA71 still had separate cylinder sleeves with shims at the bottom. The shims would compress and the sleeve would move in the block letting the headgasket blow. EA81's don't have removable sleeves so I don't think that's a problem with them. So there's a reason to upgrade to the newer design.

Plus, you can retrofit the SPFI system off of an EA82 onto the EA81, which gives you the power, economy, and reliabilty of fuel injection on the simplicity of a pushrod engine. A 5speed also has a better shift linkage that is less likely to give you problems, and I belive the internals are stronger too. So that's a jump in reliability.

The best setup I would recommend is a 5spd EA81 with SPFI.

I wouldn't recommend an EJ engine for you, mainly because it has too much torque for the old style FWD suspension to put down. With my loyale wagon, I could easily light up the 30" diameter tires. In fact, you had to be damn careful with it in the rain because it would break loose both front wheels and the front would slide to the right. Which in 2 lane stop and go traffic can run you into the car on your right. In 4wd it was a blast, in 2wd you had to be careful.

#27 blownchevelle503

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 09:38 PM

well, I reckon I'll replace my front cv's. stock left and right side mirrors, stock rear view so I can take the legacy rear view mirror out. try and find a carpet kit, fix all the leaks in my car, repair the small amount of body damage, paint the car, and fix my suspension. then worry about whether or not I'll do a motor swap, that oughtta give me some time to decide if the car is worth my time upgrading, or just restoring.



ram engines gained 20hp and 10lb-ft tq with a carb, distributor curved and headers. imagine a cam grind, valves grinded, and head shaved. as you said, I cant marry another engine to my transmission, so I would like to get all the life out of my engine and trans as I can, and when they finally die, i'll think about a newer motor.

http://www.mttechsuba.com has plenty of replacement parts, as well as engines and trannys, they offer parts from early 80's to present. they are located in oregon city, oregon. I called them last year, and asked about clutch, cv's, mirrors, and motors, they told me they had them, but would have to call me back with prices.
I found out about them when I was working at safeway, a guy came in with an 83 turbo wagon, he said they sold him the turbo motor. he told me that they buy containers full of subaru parts, I have yet to verify if this is correct or not, but they do have parts for dang near any subaru.

#28 blownchevelle503

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 09:57 PM

WOW. I've never seen GD be this cool and helpful to someone with a bad attitude like this before. What's wrong with you man? You having a mellow off-day?

Ram engines are built for use in experimental aircraft. Constant RPM, constant load, not idle to redline variable load like you see in a car. So high horsepower/ torque #'s can be made, but the powerband is much smaller. Everything is optimized for a certian RPM, not a wide flat torque band like you need to move a car.

That aside, I belive the EA71 still had separate cylinder sleeves with shims at the bottom. The shims would compress and the sleeve would move in the block letting the headgasket blow. EA81's don't have removable sleeves so I don't think that's a problem with them. So there's a reason to upgrade to the newer design.

Plus, you can retrofit the SPFI system off of an EA82 onto the EA81, which gives you the power, economy, and reliabilty of fuel injection on the simplicity of a pushrod engine. A 5speed also has a better shift linkage that is less likely to give you problems, and I belive the internals are stronger too. So that's a jump in reliability.

The best setup I would recommend is a 5spd EA81 with SPFI.

I wouldn't recommend an EJ engine for you, mainly because it has too much torque for the old style FWD suspension to put down. With my loyale wagon, I could easily light up the 30" diameter tires. In fact, you had to be damn careful with it in the rain because it would break loose both front wheels and the front would slide to the right. Which in 2 lane stop and go traffic can run you into the car on your right. In 4wd it was a blast, in 2wd you had to be careful.


the motor I talked to ram engines about, was built for a customer, for his car

if you read the whole thread, you will see that I don't like ej22's, I used to think they were gods gift to me, until I owned and destroyed a few. I clearly stated that I don't want an ej22, I opened my mind to ea81's, as they are a better engine than my version of the ea71. if GD has or had a problem with me, it is his place to discuss that matter with me, like an adult. and we can work it out as adults. I know what an ej22 would do to my car, it would make it fun for about 30 seconds, then it would start tearing stuff apart.
it would be like putting a 572cu chevy on a lawn mower. nothing good could come of it. if I took the time, money, and experience as pooparu, then it might work, then again, he started with a better version of the hatch. I'm starting with the poorest of hatch platforms, or "polishing a turd".

if you didnt like jesus, and told me you didnt like jesus, would you appreciate it if I came to your house everyday preaching, and reciting psalms and scriptures?

P.S. GeneralDisorder... what to say... I respect your views, I understand you have more experience than me, that's the whole reason I posted this thread (I have no experience in modifying or rebuilding subaru motors)
I respect your views, and opinions, but I dont agree with all of them.

Kyle B.

#29 Quidam

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 01:56 AM

Hey,

FYI, Ram Engines are building automotive 1.6 to 3.0 Subaru engines. They're buying cores.

Doug

#30 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 01:58 AM

I live very close to Mountain Tech. When you see their prices you won't be happy. I know people that used their serives - those folks use me instead now.

The EA71 - built as you imagine (not the RAM version at 88 HP - that would likely be driveable) - would have a terrible power band. All high RPM (4000+), and little torque off the line.

You will eat a top-starter transmission within a few HUNDRED miles with more than 100 HP. I've blown a few 4 speed's in my day - I've torn them down and even repaired one. They are junk under heavy loads. You get anywhere near double the power and you'll destroy them. Even the EA 5 speed's aren't good for much over 150 HP.

An EJ22 with a 5 speed D/R would be perfectly fine in your car. There's another member here in Portland with an '82 hatch with that exact combo. Runs out very nicely. And there are dozens of other EA81 body cars and Brats with that combo. The EA81 Turbo Brat/Coupe/Wagon was right near 100 HP. The EJ22 is 133 HP. Not that much more.

If you are destroying EJ22's then you are doing something wrong. And what exactly do you mean by "destroy". I don't consider having to replace some gaskets or loss of oil resulting in a seized motor to be the fault of the engine. That's poor maintenance. Properly maintained I'm not sure which would fail first - the EA81 or the EJ22 - both should easily do 350k+ with good maintenence. Though the EA81 might need a couple carb rebuillds, some distributor replacement's, and a whole lot of valve adjustment's to get there.

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder, 20 January 2010 - 02:02 AM.


#31 Quidam

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 02:06 AM

Hey blownchevelle,

They will bore your block for $175.00, that's list.

Doug

Edit: "according to ccr, boring the cylinders is not an option due to heat dissipation issues." I don't know what that means, and it doesn't make sense to me. How about you?

Edited by Quidam, 20 January 2010 - 02:25 AM.
Add text.


#32 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 02:33 AM

Boring typically isn't a good idea due to the cast-in cylinder liners. Without a bore plate they tend to spin in the block. It can be done but requires special tooling like RAM has.

It's also typically not needed as Subaru bore's just don't wear out under normal use. It's much easier to get a good used block and give it enough hone to allow the rings to seat.

GD

#33 Quidam

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 02:39 AM

"It's also typically not needed as Subaru bore's just don't wear out under normal use."

Really? Do tell. Ram will bore any Subaru engine. You can even put genuine oversize Subaru pistons back in it.

You know more than Subaru.

Doug

Edit: FSM talks about temperature rise and paying attention to it when doing cylinders. If one spins, it's junk.

For an EA-82: FSM .0118" enlarging limit on the bore.

Taper- Standard- .0006, Limit-.0020.

Out-of roundness- Standard- .0004", Limit- ..0020. How big are the dips where the piston changes direction? How deep? If I remember correctly, Subaru recommends a max of .005 on one of their engines...forget which one.

Stick a dial bore gage in the cylinder and find out.

Doug

Edited by Quidam, 20 January 2010 - 02:59 AM.


#34 blownchevelle503

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 04:46 AM

And what exactly do you mean by "destroy". I don't consider having to replace some gaskets or loss of oil resulting in a seized motor to be the fault of the engine. That's poor maintenance. Properly maintained I'm not sure which would fail first - the EA81 or the EJ22 - both should easily do 350k+ with good maintenence. Though the EA81 might need a couple carb rebuillds, some distributor replacement's, and a whole lot of valve adjustment's to get there.

GD


I was referring to the 1993 leg awd $1400 paper weight I bought a couple years back.

the odometer had 150,XXX on it, I drove it for 318 miles, the crankcase was full of oil, the oil filter and oil were brand new. it purred like a kitten at miles 1-310 I can only speculate what happened inside the engine in the next 8 miles, but the end result was a hole the size of the "ej22" code on the block, the rod poked through a bit, the motor didn't seize. it would turn over, almost start, but it was dead.

I have a running 1990 legacy 5spd awd wagon sitting in colton, or. it starts, runs, but needs a clutch, exhaust, and put back together. I offered the guy $200 for it, he laughed and said "try $100" his sons are firm believers of "the more you drink, the better you become at fixin cars" poor fellars couldn't even get the axle nuts off. they thought the right side was reverse thread.

as you can see, the reason I don't want an ej22 in my car isn't due to lack of parts. I have a near complete car, collecting moss.

#35 blownchevelle503

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 04:49 AM

Hey blownchevelle,

They will bore your block for $175.00, that's list.

Doug

Edit: "according to ccr, boring the cylinders is not an option due to heat dissipation issues." I don't know what that means, and it doesn't make sense to me. How about you?


I'll explain it the best way I know how. on a chev 350, you can bore the cylinders more than .060 but you are going to have issued with overheating. its the same thing here, you can always try and find a triple or double core radiator. but I know I wouldn't wanna run the risk.

I like my cars being lower maintenance.

#36 Gloyale

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 09:09 AM

I'll explain it the best way I know how. on a chev 350, you can bore the cylinders more than .060 but you are going to have issued with overheating. its the same thing here, you can always try and find a triple or double core radiator. but I know I wouldn't wanna run the risk.

I like my cars being lower maintenance.


It's COMPLETELY different from a 350, which is Iron through and through.

These engines have a thin Iron sleeve down the block. The force of boring against it is likely to break it loose and spin it. I know Ram and CCR do it....they are pros.....it isn't impossible......but it ussually isn't needed for a daily driver type motor.

BTW, Which is it you want? reliable or powerful? you won't get both out of this motor. You definately could with an EJ. Not sure why you are so sour on them.....but they are superior to the EA series in every way......you really should consider it.

#37 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 12:16 PM

"It's also typically not needed as Subaru bore's just don't wear out under normal use."

Really? Do tell. Ram will bore any Subaru engine. You can even put genuine oversize Subaru pistons back in it.

You know more than Subaru.


I have measured them and found them within spec even after 175k. Factory cross-hatch still visible.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to wear one out - I'm just saying that if they are cared for they don't typically wear much over the life of the engine.

I've seen more that still had the factory hone marks than I have seen one's that didn't. It's just easier to get a good used block than to pay for boreing and oversized pistons, etc. Because of the need for special tooling to bore them it's difficult to justify as there is no one local that will touch them.

You can't base your opinion of an engine on a single example. Hell - my first EA81 blew a rod at 160k. No indication of abuse by the previous owner - rebuilt tranny, LUK clutch, clean, straight, etc. There are always a percentage of lemons with any engine. Casting flaws, assembly mistakes, etc. These things happen. Throwing away all the EJ22's because a single example failed on you shows your inexperience with cars and engines in general. It's a percentage game - 95% of the EJ22's (and EA81's) will make 300k. 2% will fail prematurely, and 3% will make 500k. It's a numbers game. Your experience seems more "real" than ours since it was your own. But I can tell you that myself and many other's here have owned a lot of EJ22's and personally I have yet to experience a major mechannical failure.

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder, 20 January 2010 - 12:50 PM.


#38 Quidam

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 12:58 PM

Last time I looked, CCR doesn't bore any engines.

Posted Image

I'll measure one of these if I can find it, they're fairly thick. Factory over ..010 or .012 is no problem. Unless someone gets the boring bar stuck.

GD, you're stuck on EJ-22.

Ok, lets talk EJ. What's the factory specs on that to be considered Remanufactured?

Doug

#39 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 01:30 PM

I'll measure one of these if I can find it, they're fairly thick. Factory over ..010 or .012 is no problem. Unless someone gets the boring bar stuck.


The problem is that you need a boring plate to simulate the head being torqued down. The aluminium block will warp when the head is put on and your boring operation will no longer be straight. Few shops have a plate for these engines. If bored without the plate, the potential for cylinder liner's spinning is very high once the engine is run.

GD, you're stuck on EJ-22.

Ok, lets talk EJ. What's the factory specs on that to be considered Remanufactured?


What does that have to do with this discussion? I'm not sugesting he rebuild one. I'm sugesting he just drop in a used one. Plenty to be had for cheap in good running condition.

GD

#40 Quidam

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 01:56 PM

"The problem is that you need a boring plate " It's not a problem if you're just rebuilding one. Rings, bearings, valve job. It's been done for ages. REBUILT.

If you're remanufacturing, you have a plate and it's not a "problem". Or you have some very good cores and those areent that easy to find.

Really, the question is, what does one consider rebuilt, and what does one consider remanufactured.

What does Subaru consider remanufactured? It's in the FSManuals.

Doug

#41 Quidam

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 02:05 PM

Here's a "remanufactured" EA-82, curently ebay. No cracked heads on a remanufactured, IMO.

" 100% Replacement Of: – Pistons and rings for performance reliability – Gaskets to ensure proper sealing of the heads – Freeze Plugs to ensure no leaks – Valves, Seals and Keepers for like new performance – Journal bearings for like new performance 2. Cylinders are cut and honed to OE specifications for smooth piston travel and to ensure no out of round or rough cylinders 3. Crankshaft journals, fillets and thrust areas are precisely machined and polished on a state of the art polisher to ensure smooth operation 4. Rods are machined and checked for out of round, taper, and straightness 5. Heads are inspected for cracks, stripped threads, deck flatness and all seats are re-cut to OE specifications to ensure proper sealing of the valves 6. Cams are precisely machined to ensure proper lobe taper for long lifter life 7. All engines are run on a state of the art SIM tester to check for oil pressure, flow, compression, and torque.

#42 blownchevelle503

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 12:59 AM

It's COMPLETELY different from a 350, which is Iron through and through.

These engines have a thin Iron sleeve down the block. The force of boring against it is likely to break it loose and spin it. I know Ram and CCR do it....they are pros.....it isn't impossible......but it ussually isn't needed for a daily driver type motor.

BTW, Which is it you want? reliable or powerful? you won't get both out of this motor. You definately could with an EJ. Not sure why you are so sour on them.....but they are superior to the EA series in every way......you really should consider it.


the person didn't understand what heat dissipation meant. I was explaining to him that it meant overheating problems. and problems getting rid of the heat. not that the bored out subaru is the same or even similar to a chev.

just to clear that up

#43 blownchevelle503

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 01:25 AM

I went to schucks tonight, spent $51 on my car. 4 NGK iridium plugs $7 each, gapped at .032, distributor cap, rotor, and nos 60point (or 6 octane) octane boost.

they were out of plug wires, and couldn't find a fuel filter due to their remodel.

I've been running free 87 octane for the past 2 months in my car, fill up twice a week, and today my car fell on its face several times, she's doing better now.

what are my options for a really good coil?

and what's the deal with the external voltage regulator? what's its purpose? is there a way to get rid of it? without killing my car?

I had some NGK iridium plugs in it from my 93 legacy, they were gapped accordingly .043 or so. and seemed to run better with a wider gap. does anyone have anything to add to this?

also, whats with this secondary air filter (baby blue round box, goes straight to the head.) I pulled the hose with the engine running, it gets louder, but sound is the only difference I've noticed... what options do I have with this? if I remove it, what do I do with the hose?


thank you all for your patience.

Kyle B.

#44 Quidam

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 10:06 AM

FYI. Here's the original quote blownchevelle probably read from CCR website.

"* Do you bore the blocks?


No. In our experience, Subaru blocks should never be bored due to lessened abililty to dissipate heat from friction, resulting in lessened reliability."

Doug

#45 blownchevelle503

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 04:48 PM

I looked down my carb while the engine was running, and I saw that the fuel is barely spitting out. my car is running like garbage now. I read in my subaru service manual (not haynes, or chilton) that the remedy is to remove and clean the jet, or something... I ran regular from gas cans through my car for a good 2 months, I believe something in the carb is dirty and clogged. short of a carb rebuild, what could I do for a 'quick fix' to get me through til next payday?


Thank You!


Kyle B.

#46 corvette6698512

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 05:25 PM

For a "quick fix", get yourself some carb cleaner and read the instructions. If that doesn't work, rev the engine up to 2000-2500 rpm and put your hand over the carb(so no air can get in). This will try to suck your hand in and create a lot of vacuum. That vacuum should pull the crud out of the jets. If that does not work, you will have to take the carb apart.

#47 blownchevelle503

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 02:06 AM

I adjusted the idle mixture screw, it was adjusted to run really rich, I leaned it out enough so I can no longer smell the gasoline in the exhaust. just smells like hot air.

the car still takes a bit of cranking over to start, and still diesels when I shut it off.

I noticed that at an idle, while looking down the carb with the butterfly propped open. it throws drops of fuel out of the jet, and as soon as I rev it, it sprays a mist out. is this normal?

Does anyone in my area have a freshly rebuilt hitachi carb thats priced to sell? or a good enough carb, or a rebuildable core. or if someone wants to give me a weber, I'll be fine with that too.

#48 Quidam

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 02:25 PM

FYI, you were thinking something could be clogged. 5 of 6 Hitachi power valves I've pulled out are, totally, But that wouldn't effect the idle. You ever get a new fuel filter?

Here's what the PV looks like:Posted Image

Oh, where did you get that fuel? You said after you filled up it ran bad, if I remember right.

I don't think a loose throttle shaft is causing these things.

Doug

#49 blownchevelle503

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 05:52 PM

I poured it from dirty gas cans into my car. its also safeway gas, but thats only a small portion of the problem. oh, and I also ran 5gallons of 50:1 mix gas in my car along with a 5gallon can of regular.

I usually use b12 chemtool to clean my fuel system.
I've used seafoam with no noticable difference, although I did that with my mixture set at rich, and before using the crappy gas


everytime I used the cheap crappy gas, I used lucas fuel additive (cant remember the exact name)

what do you guys recommend as far as "pour in the gas tank" cleaners or additives?

BTW I just filled with shell v-power, its no 76 but it does alright.

#50 blownchevelle503

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:10 PM

**UPDATE**

I adjusted my carb, leaned it out a bit, adjusted the idle, timed it by ear, dumped a can of b12 chemtool in it, bought a can of pyroil carb cleaner. used it according to the directions, she still takes a bit to start, but once warm, she drives great, I can feel her hit her peak tq, its very noticeable. I'm sure she needs more adjustments, but she's doing 75% better.

Kyle B.




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