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Overheating and no heat issues... please help!


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34 replies to this topic

#1 emarsh

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 09:51 AM

let me start by saying that i've done a lot of searching... and i can't find anything that relates exactly to mine...

i have a 1992 Loyale 4WD with 195xxx on it, timing belts where replaced by the previous owner at about 180xxx, they are infact new as i have seen them and are gatorback belts... here's the issue, and i apologize if this is too long...

it starts with my friends trying to launch my car is snow when i told him not to... the motor mounts are weak, so the fan smacked the radiator and put a hole in it... we limped it home and it almost reached the red on the gauge but never got into it... i put a new radiator in hoping the fan wouldn't need to be replaced since a blade broke off... after 40 miles the fan ate the water pump bearings up and came apart and smacked the new radiator... i got a new water pump, a used radiator, and a used fan... it's all together and has been for a few days...

the problem now is the car will start heating up and after 15 or 20 minutes of driving will almost get to the red, even though i haven;t let it fully reach it... if i park the car for maybe even 5 minutes and start again, it starts down at the normal area for a few minutes before climpbing again... this happens city or highway driving... also, if the car idles, it will not overheat no matter how long i run it, it just runs slightly warm... but still just less than 1/2 up the gauge...

the other problem i that developed at the same time is no heat... if i turn the heater off for about a minute, then turn it on, it will blow hot for about 5 senonds then turn cold... the flap and blower motor are working fine...

the first thing that came to mind was a clogged heater core even though i don't know what would have randomly caused it, and i don't know why that would cause the engine to get hot... i have tried to burp the system many times with no success... however one hose running to to heater core is hot while running and the other one stays cold and doesn't feel to have much pressure... i pulled the return hose off while the car was running and it did run out... it didn't have much force to it but it came out at about the rate of pouring a bottle of soda...

i also can't get the car to take anymore coolant... i have let it idle for an hour or so while trying to burp the system... also, i replaced the thermostat with a cheaper parts store one about a month ago... and it is opening and working...

and just in case it helps, the car has got almost to the red on the gauge a total of probably 4-5 times, i know i should never let this happen but i had to get off the road each time i let it get that high...

i ran the car for about 20 minutes today and no success with burping it... i did compression test it afterwards though to determine the HG's..

the conditions were just about fully warmed up then shut the car off... pulled to fuse for the fuel pump... then wide open throttle for each with consistent number of cranks for each cylinder...

the results
DRIVER SIDE
FRONT 203
REAR 192

PASSENGER SIDE
FRONT 160
REAR 184

any help on this would be greatly appreciated... also, if it helps, i am a mechanic with full tools so don't be afraid to tell me to try something "harder"...

i am currently reversing to hoses on the heater core to try and "free up" anything that may be stuck in there then putting them back to the original way...

thank you
-Sam

#2 Ricearu

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 10:02 AM

did you flush and clean your USED radiator? It could be clogged or you have an air pocket somewhere in the system. Try this

park your car on a steep incline front forward. I put my front wheels on a curb. Let it run for a few, let it heat up to op temp.
Let it cool down, remove the cap
add more water if needed, squeezing the radiator hoses to get the air out.

try that. If that doesn't help, you probably have bigger issues

#3 grossgary

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 10:06 AM

your used radiator is probably clogged. depending how bad your old one is, it might be repairable at a radiator shop.

#4 emarsh

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 10:07 AM

the used raditor seemed to flow fine when i got before i put it in... i simply tested it by pouring some coolant in and it easily all came out the other end... i'm trying to avoid any water at this point because the temperature has been in the teens and i just don't want any of it to freeze...

i also forgot to mention that i had the front end jacked up as far as i could get it while doing the burping and trying to add more coolant... i've squeezed every hose on the car with no success...

am i wrong to possibly think the compression numbers are too high due to coolant possibly leaking into the cylinders...? just a thought as i'm not quite sure what the compression is on these motors to know what it should test at...

thanks for the advice! any is appreciated!

#5 emarsh

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 10:08 AM

your used radiator is probably clogged. depending how bad your old one is, it might be repairable at a radiator shop.


the old one is pretty bad... the fan put a hole almost all the way through it, i doubt there is any saving it...

thanks

#6 emarsh

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 10:10 AM

also, this problem developed after about a day of driving after fixing it all... suring that first day, it seemed to run perfectly fine... just trying to give all the details i can to help make the diagnosis easier...

#7 The Dude Abides

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 10:42 AM

Since your a mechanic im sure you know how to check for HG problems or what the tail tail signs of one are. Leaks through exhaust white smoke and what not. Ive been told that its not just getting to the H that kills motors its running it long on H. If i could suggest anything would be a coolant flush. ONly because it sounds like you do have an airbubble in there. A coolant flush will get rid of your problem, i doubt your motor is toast.

#8 grossgary

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 10:45 AM

Now that you mention it....I thought those compression numbers looked high - i've never gotten numbers that high on older subaru's. I think they're supposed to be around 150-170. But I just figured something else was causing or I was missing something.

If they're leaking bad you can sometimes pull the spark plugs and see coolant down in the cylinders with a good light. I've done that before.

I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about burping, that's not likely to be your issue. I've never had a problem with air in these older ones, it's the newer Subarus that are notorious for that.

#9 emarsh

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 10:52 AM

correct about the common signs... my only concern is that i have read that sometimes these head gaskets blow in a way that just leaks exhaust gases into the coolant... so my fear is maybe that is why it is getting hot...?

and it never fully reached the H and it was only ran close to H for a total of maybe 1 minute combined with the few times it climbed...

and i am hoping the motor is still good, too... i'm planning on taking it to a buddy's shop for a proper flush soon... any other suggestions or advice would still be greatly appreciated! thanks

#10 emarsh

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 10:54 AM

Now that you mention it....I thought those compression numbers looked high - i've never gotten numbers that high on older subaru's. I think they're supposed to be around 150-170. But I just figured something else was causing or I was missing something.

If they're leaking bad you can sometimes pull the spark plugs and see coolant down in the cylinders with a good light. I've done that before.

I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about burping, that's not likely to be your issue. I've never had a problem with air in these older ones, it's the newer Subarus that are notorious for that.


the cylinders appear to be clean and dry from what i can see... and the spark plugs came out completely dry and smelled 100% normal... i did however find out that on of the spark plug holes seems to be stripped out when i tried to tighten one... but i'm not worried about this having any realtion to the issues i'm having...

#11 grossgary

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 10:57 AM

exhaust gases into coolant is typical of later motors, i've never seen it on the older stuff - but it's probably possible.

#12 emarsh

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 11:00 AM

exhaust gases into coolant is typical of later motors, i've never seen it on the older stuff - but it's probably possible.


ok, i am new to subaru's so i was not sure if that related to all of them or not... thanks for clearing that up!

and also, there is no type of smoke at all so it doesn't seem like coolant is leaking into the cylinders...

this car ran perfect and i put 5000 miles on in 2 months when i got it in October! i don't know what would just cause it to give me so many damn problems! ahhhh

#13 ivantruckman

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 11:10 AM

did you put a rebuilt water pump in ?? or a new one

#14 emarsh

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 11:14 AM

did you put a rebuilt water pump in ?? or a new one


it is a new water pump...

i also forgot to add in the OP that when the old water pump broke and the bearings went bad, the fin scored the block just a tiny tiny bit... but i am 99.9% confindent that it isn't enough to cause this issue... you could barely feel it, all it really did was polish a little part, not even any metal shaving from it... just throwing anything and everything i can out there to help diagnos it... thanks

EDIT: i'm assuming it's a rebuilt one from the parts store, it was $40 with a lifetime warranty... it does say subaru on it though if that matters... sorry for the mix up

#15 grossgary

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 11:25 AM

Okay - let's start over sort of. Overheating and no heat - coolant isn't cylcling properly.

What's the deal on the thermostat? Is it aftermarket or Subaru? Aftermarkets are notorious for being cheap, you can tell just by sitting it side by side with a Subaru tstat.

Get it up to operating temperature and feel the water hoses and radiator. One of those infrared temperature guns are really nice here, start seeing where the cold/hot spots are.

Kind of hard to touch much of the radiator particularly with the fans in the way, might remove those first just as a test?

If the hoses or radiator have cool spots on them then coolant isn't moving.

Edited by grossgary, 15 January 2010 - 11:28 AM.


#16 emarsh

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 11:39 AM

Okay - let's start over sort of. Overheating and no heat - coolant isn't cylcling properly.

What's the deal on the thermostat? Is it aftermarket or Subaru? Aftermarkets are notorious for being cheap, you can tell just by sitting it side by side with a Subaru tstat.

Get it up to operating temperature and feel the water hoses and radiator. One of those infrared temperature guns are really nice here, start seeing where the cold/hot spots are.

Kind of hard to touch much of the radiator particularly with the fans in the way, might remove those first just as a test?

If the hoses or radiator have cool spots on them then coolant isn't moving.


ok... the thermostat is a cheap parts store on, but it is opening... the upper hose stays cold until it opens then does get hot..

the upper and lower radiator hoses both get hot once at operating temperature... one of the heater core hoses gets hot, which i'm assuming is the inlet, the other one does not... however i don't think this will cause the car to overheat, just me though, i may be wrong...

as for the radiator... after the car has been running, the driver side is cold due to the fan constantly pulling air through, i can feel it sucking air... and the the passenger side is hot to the touch... i can feel this since i took to condensor out when i replace all the parts...

i currently do not have a radar gun for the temp but i can feel the heat from the 3 out of 4 hoses...

i'm thinking about bypassing the heater core for now to test the problem... but how likely is it that the car will overheat due to the heater core, i've seen many cars with clogged heater cores that still run perfectly fine... :/

#17 grossgary

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 11:43 AM

Okay, good, that's helpful for sure. Except I'm still baffled it's running hot?!?!?

I've never seen a clogged heater core cause a car to overheat either.

Is it possible for the radiator to feel hot but not be circulating enough?

Seems like it has to be related to the recent work. Strange though that you drove it for a day without issue.

#18 emarsh

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 11:51 AM

Okay, good, that's helpful for sure. Except I'm still baffled it's running hot?!?!?

I've never seen a clogged heater core cause a car to overheat either.

Is it possible for the radiator to feel hot but not be circulating enough?

Seems like it has to be related to the recent work. Strange though that you drove it for a day without issue.


i agree... and i don't mean to sound cocky in anyway at all when i say this, but i know for a fact everything i did was done right! lol

i'm just stumped as to what could have randomly caused it to happen... that's why i wasn't sure if it was due to getting hot a couple times...

or maybe if somehow the radiaor is bad even though coolant went in the top and came straight out of the bottom... or maybe for some odd reason the new water pump is a defect, even though is felt and looked and seemed perfectly normal...

and i've never seen a car run hot due to the heater core being clogged either... and it really seems like the radiator is flowing fine since it felt hot even after driving on the freeway in 15* weather... if it wasn't flowing i would definitely assume it would be cold...

but is it safe to say that the motor is ok...? that is my biggest fear as i really don't feel like rebuilding this one right now as i need the car...

any other ideas from anyone about anything about something about this problem that could be causing it?! i'm so stumped right now...

thanks grossgary for all the input! i appreciate it!

#19 emarsh

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 01:04 PM

well i'm pretty sure that it is something related with circulation... i just ordered a new (used) water pump under warranty to try that... the water pump will be here tomorrow so i open to any and all suggestions in the mean time and anytime really... i am also going to do a heavy flush of the radiator...

i'm pretty sure it realted to the circulation since it only overheats when driving it and not sitting at idle...

let me know what anyone may think!

thanks again for the help so far...

-Sam

#20 The Dude Abides

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 01:54 PM

On a side note if you want to sell the rebuilt waterpump you just picked up id be willing to get it if you wanted to sell it. Almost postiive mine is the original.

Neres another thing you could try. I know its cold but why not try running it with no t stat and see how it works then. Would atleast eliminate a coolant flowing problem or a tstat problem.

#21 AWD TURBO!

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 01:54 PM

OK so its in the teens do you have something in front of the rater to keep the car worm so the thrums stat stays open at temp? if its too cold out the water in the radiator is getting too cold making the stat closed! moter is hot! water is ice cold

make since?

#22 The Dude Abides

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 01:55 PM

Buy the way, being a mechanic have you ever known any heat issues to be due to bad radiator circulation. My car gets up to temp but it seems to take forever and the heat is warm but not hot. People have suggested heater core clog but i cant just flush it here in the apartment parking lot.

#23 grossgary

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 02:21 PM

The dude - you can probably start your own thread since this guy is still trouble shooting. Maybe a mod can separate this for you?

In general - try and feel the heater core lines. Maybe that will tell you something? If one is hot and the other not, then it's likely clogged. I've seen clogged heater cores before. Lots of trash comes out when you flush them.

#24 The Dude Abides

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 02:23 PM

Oh ive started my own thread and people are baffled. I was just curious since he was a mechanic what he has seen in the past. He has stated the inlet heater core line is hot but the outlet is cold. Mine are both hot.

#25 grossgary

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 03:44 PM

oh right on, i wasn't trying to be mean, good stuff.




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