Uberoo Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I spent alot of time today under the front of my EA81 wheeler toy while I was putting in a 5 speed.I couldn't help but notice how short and stubby the lower control arms are.I also noticed that when I would jack the car up from the front that there wasn't alot of down travel in the suspension.So Im just wondering exactly what part of the front suspension is binding up? Note: please don't treat this as one of my famous "what if posts". Im just kinda looking the suspension travel like this: if the axles can take "X" travel,the struts have "X-y" travel,etc why not make everything travel at least as much as the axles can take. I know that we are never going to get massive travel out of the subaru stuff,but if we can tweak it to get just a little bit more out of it,it will help. as for whats binding up the suspension is it the strut,the axle,the radius rod,lower control arm, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one eye Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Dont you have a 2" lift on it? That could be a lot of your problem why there is no down travel on your strut ..... Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share Posted January 17, 2010 I wonder what would happen if the lower control arm was mounted further inboard,IE directly under the center line of the inner joint? with the two inch lift making it so I have no down travel is that an indicator that the axle is limiting travel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaTech Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 possibly if the axle is hitting the subframe. The 2" lift pushes the suspension down though, so you would have less downward movement than if it was stock or an even lift with the subframes spaced out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share Posted January 17, 2010 Might have to cycle the suspension though and see if the axle is touching somewhere during travel.That would definably kill some travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaTech Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 you could try unbolting suspension components and not having the spindle on the axle to see how they all move by themselves. That might help and see which component moves the least or if it's a combination of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share Posted January 17, 2010 ive heard that if I take the strut,hub,axle,and tire rod ends of an EA82 and then extend the stock control arm 1 3/4" I can get more travel due to the the additional length.Does anyone know if that combo would work without having ridiculous camber? Also if it will work can the front suspension work from a FWD EA82? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share Posted January 17, 2010 I just rembered I had some old shocks for a early 90's ford exploder.so I took off one rear shock to compare the two. Stock is 13" compressed and 17.5" extended exploder is 15" compressed and 26 extended think that might be a problem?haha Right up until I try to test fit the exploder shock-the two mounting holes are just slightly narrower than stock and they use a smaller bolt.Easily fixable though. also while we are at it.On an EA81 with the torsion bar holding everything up what is the point of a shock?I put the tire on so I could go back inside.But then I tested the suspension on both sides.with a shock in place the rear suspension was alot stiffer,with out a shock it wasn't too bad.Might not want to rally around corners though,but it allowed everything to flex well. I suppose at higher speeds without shocks in the back to control sway it might be kinda dangerous..So on that note anyone know the part number for the rancho shock that will fit,or even a stock part that would work and be cheaper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaTech Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) Do the stock shocks actually go to full extension on the car? the shock is there so the car doesn't bounce up and down. a torsion bar just acts as a spring. You can also use the search function for the rancho shocks dude. it's been covered a lot. Edit: found it with a quick search. RS5241 Edited January 17, 2010 by NinjaTech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbbvw Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 ive heard that if I take the strut,hub,axle,and tire rod ends of an EA82 and then extend the stock control arm 1 3/4" I can get more travel due to the the additional length.Does anyone know if that combo would work without having ridiculous camber? Also if it will work can the front suspension work from a FWD EA82? I put EA82 front suspension on my 4" lifted 81 wagon. I used the axles, knuckles/brakes, control arms and outer tie rods. I extended the EA81 inner tie rods 1" and extended radius rods 2". I'm still using the adjustable EA81 struts. This set up moves the tires forward 2" and out about 1 1/2" on each side, but the struts still limit travel. I've been wanting to try some different struts with more travel and move the top mounts forward so they're not leaning back so much. I've been very happy with this setup otherwise. Camber is not to bad. I'm pretty sure FWD suspension would work. Jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Here's the jist of the front suspension travel. It doesnt have much flex, even in stock form, due to the way it pivots. If you look at it, you see how the radius rod is attached with a pair of rubber bushings, but its not in-line with the lower control arm pivot point. This setup limits the travel because it binds up very easily. The stock struts arent exactly long travel, I dont have the specs but they arent the limiting factor in the stock setup. With the 2" suspension lift, you already have the control arm and radius rod almost maxed out in their range of flex to the point they cant flex anymore. With stock EA81 front axles you do not want long travel anyways. I am amazed yours are till holding together, I blew mine with a 2" lift in 2 weeks, with no offroading. The axles on these are short and hyper extend easily, and of course the CV's only let you flex so far without exploding. If you want more travel, the easiest way is use the EA82 stuff that Jessie has on his wagon, or change the way the radius rod mounts to the car, so that the pivot point for the radius rod is in-line with the lower control arm pivot point. This will allow the control arm to flex with no binding to the full extent of the strut's flex. -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share Posted January 17, 2010 Here's the jist of the front suspension travel. It doesnt have much flex, even in stock form, due to the way it pivots. If you look at it, you see how the radius rod is attached with a pair of rubber bushings, but its not in-line with the lower control arm pivot point. This setup limits the travel because it binds up very easily. The stock struts arent exactly long travel, I dont have the specs but they arent the limiting factor in the stock setup. With the 2" suspension lift, you already have the control arm and radius rod almost maxed out in their range of flex to the point they cant flex anymore. With stock EA81 front axles you do not want long travel anyways. I am amazed yours are till holding together, I blew mine with a 2" lift in 2 weeks, with no offroading. The axles on these are short and hyper extend easily, and of course the CV's only let you flex so far without exploding. If you want more travel, the easiest way is use the EA82 stuff that Jessie has on his wagon, or change the way the radius rod mounts to the car, so that the pivot point for the radius rod is in-line with the lower control arm pivot point. This will allow the control arm to flex with no binding to the full extent of the strut's flex. -Bill what about doing both?put EA82 front suspension and move the radius rod?Then I suppose I could put Baja bug strut inserts to get more travel.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 Is it a good idea to push the axle forward?wont that make the angles too extreme?it would be nice to get a bit more approach angle. but moving the tire forward plus 2" lift seems like it would destroy even the EA82 axles.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbbvw Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 It really only affects the axles at full turn. Mine have held up pretty well. I don't know how much more stress the 2" lift will put on them. For me the tire clearance and better approach angle was worth the risk. Jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 I moved the front wheels forward about an inch and a half on the Beast, and it makes a huge difference. Before my 31's would rub under flex or hard turning, but now I dont have those issues at all. It is a bear to turn when backing up though, but power steering helps a lot. -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 why would steering effort change when backing up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 The steering geometry changes when you move the wheels forward, it creates negative caster, which improves the steering response in corners and curves going forward, but it makes it less than ideal for backing up. It's a fair trade off to me though, as most of the time I'm moving forward. There are a lot of things to consider when you start messing around with suspension, you always have to take into account the camber, caster, and toe, as well as suspension movement under any conditions. -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazmataz Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 (edited) The steering geometry changes when you move the wheels forward, it creates negative caster, which improves the steering response in corners and curves going forward, but it makes it less than ideal for backing up. -Bill moving the wheels forward is positive caster, this increases steering returnability or response. moving the top strut mount forward of the wheels is negative caster, this kills steering returnability. Edited January 19, 2010 by chazmataz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 moving the wheels forward is positive caster, this increases steering returnability or response. moving the top strut mount forward of the wheels is negative caster, this kills steering returnability. Ahh yes, I had them backwards, thanks for catching that -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazmataz Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Ahh yes, I had them backwards, thanks for catching that -Bill hey no problem, just thought i would clear it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 I have access to a FWD EA82 wagon that I probably could use for parts.Just right now its under three feet of snow..so longer suspension travel will have to wait.For now anyway, at least until the snow clears up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one eye Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Your axle is still going to rub on the top part of the control arm, there is no real good way to get away from it.................. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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