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Cylinder head, head gasket questions.


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17 replies to this topic

#1 infared067

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 03:26 PM

I've done a lot of searching, but am still a little confused on some things... I have a 87 gl 4wd turbo that blew a head gasket. The engine is a 1.8 with overhead cams.

I see a lot of people using EA81 and EA82, what does this mean exactly and what is mine?

Is it possible to put new head gaskets in without removing the engine?
Removing the engine would be a hassle because the manual says the ac needs to be discharged and recovered and the car is not drivable to have that done.

Any other tips or tricks?

I've done two head gaskets before but those were both on I4's this seems a little more tricky, especially with the turbo. Thanks in advance!

#2 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 03:41 PM

The AC system does not have to be touched - just dismount the compressor from it's bracket and flip it off to the side - your manual is wrong about that.

As for the head gaskets - your engine is an EA82T (T for Turbo) and is notorious for blowing head gaskets and cracking heads. While the head gaskets can be done in the car, it is easier to pull the engine. Everything you need to know about this engine is here on the forum - just do some searches for EA82T and EA82T head gasket, etc. You'll quickly find out all you need to know about them.

If it's got a lot of miles and you think there may be more to the HG problem than just the gaskets (cracked heads, etc) then just get rid of the car. Those turbo engines are more trouble than the are worth and it would be better to get a non-turbo model or a first generation Legacy (EJ22).

GD

#3 misledxcracker

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 04:03 PM

Too bad it's not easily accomplished to retro-fit SPFI into a turbo car... that's what I'd do. Or maybe another EA82 with a Weber? Seems like all the EA82T's had more cool options and stuff... just less reliable motors :lol:

#4 grossgary

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 05:19 PM

the turbo stuff is annoying to get off regardless if your'e pulling the engine or not.

if you stand the extra bending over and reaching into the engine bay then doing it with the engine in the car is my preference. it is annoying working like that though, so i can totally understand folks not liking that method at all, but it's easy to do in the car. i'm doing an XT6 head gasket right now, engine in the car. everything else being equal (experience and "fastness") leaving it in the car should be quicker. someone who says they can "do an engine pull or install in 30 minutes" can also remove a head faster than the average person.

so yeah, it can easily be done in the car. but turbo's plain suck to work on in my opinion.

use the fel pro permatorque head gaskets so you don't have to retorque.

#5 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 05:26 PM

so yeah, it can easily be done in the car. but turbo's plain suck to work on in my opinion.

use the fel pro permatorque head gaskets so you don't have to retorque.


+1 to both of those. I'm getting less and less inclined to be bending over engine bay's - though I rarely work on EA82T's. My turbo car is not much more fun to wrench on but at least it's reliable and FAST so I can justify the extra work :rolleyes:

Personally - I would remove the engine. Then part out the car so I didn't have to put it back :lol:

GD

#6 infared067

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:23 PM

Cool, thanks everybody for the quick and informative replies. So far I'm going to try to do it with the engine in, but that could all change if I hit a snag. We'll see...:banana:

#7 Txakura

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 10:36 AM

I am far from the guru... but pulling these engines isn't THAT bad. I'm probably not near as fast as half these guys but I make up for it when the engine is out it because it sooo much easier to work on. It's truly a 6 in one, half dozen in the other deal depending on your abilities. I'd leave it in IF I needed it asap to be back on the road, or IF I had other major work planned for later and it was going to come out for something else.

If it ISN'T your daily driver, (DD) then it would be a good time to check the timing belts, replace the pan gasket and rear main etc etc with the engine out.

#8 infared067

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 06:26 PM

Thanks again everybody for your help... I finally managed to get both heads off with the engine still in and the ac compressor off to the side... Both heads have one crack between the valves on one cylinder each... Thats all of the cracks that I can see for now... I'll get some pics up soon. So I was wondering what my options were at this point? I'm going to take the heads to Headsup in Auburn, Wa to have them tested and whatnot. I suppose if they are still good I can put em back on, but what if they aren't? I haven't seen any refurbished ones on ebay. Are there any other engines that can be swapped for the ea82t? Anything else to think about?

#9 Txakura

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 08:27 PM

some cracks are "normal" for these engines and can be run, other people know more and will probably post, search the forum for head cracking and there may be some pics already up you can compare to as well as some descriptions of typical cracks versus fatal cracks

I just wanted to post before you spent any money on any course of action - my knowledge is limited to what I have learned by reading here, not hands on for that particular problem

#10 MilesFox

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 09:13 PM

having cracks between the valves is a normal occurrence. it is possible to use a drift and flatten out the crack, a good machinist should know of some way to stake it down.

beware of cracks in the exhaust ports, those are the ones that will go through to a water jacket.

have fun installing the cam towers. use some sticky assembly lube so the followers dont fall off as you go to install the cam tower.

if you unbolt the motor mount studs and remove the pitch bar, you can jack up the engine several inches to clear the framerails, by placing a jack under the diff portion of the transmission. this will make the assembly a lot easier

there is an o-ring in the cam tower that is very improtant (Where it meets the head on the corner), be sure to replace them

#11 Urabus-84HBDR

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 01:18 PM

what shop did you take them to? DG machine is in Auburn, highly recommend them, they work with delta qutie a bit too... Right down the street.
If your heads are too cracked hit the jy for a donor car thats wrecked in the rear or something obvious besides motor failure. I have 100k on a j/y motor, car was wrecked in the rear... Almost time to go thru it.
Taking the motor out is the best option, if you have the time and space/tools to do the job. need a few special tools, or can get around them, clutch aignment, hoist/stand, clean area.
Watch the studs when you torque the heads down, seen people strip out those, not what you want. Good luck.

#12 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 01:49 PM

Cracks between the valves are not a concern unless they are wide enough to fit your thumbnail into and/or the valve seats are loose. Make sure there are no cracks into the exhaust port as those will open into a water jacket.

Get yourself a thick peice of glass large enough for a sheet of sandpaper and true up the head surface with some 220 grit, then some 400 grit. Use WD-40 for lube and to clean the paper.

Use the Fel-Pro perma-torque gaskets. Torque them to 55 ft/lbs instead of the stock 47. Chase threads, oil, torque in sequence, etc.

GD

#13 infared067

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 10:22 PM

having cracks between the valves is a normal occurrence. it is possible to use a drift and flatten out the crack, a good machinist should know of some way to stake it down.

beware of cracks in the exhaust ports, those are the ones that will go through to a water jacket.

have fun installing the cam towers. use some sticky assembly lube so the followers dont fall off as you go to install the cam tower.

if you unbolt the motor mount studs and remove the pitch bar, you can jack up the engine several inches to clear the framerails, by placing a jack under the diff portion of the transmission. this will make the assembly a lot easier

there is an o-ring in the cam tower that is very improtant (Where it meets the head on the corner), be sure to replace them


Should there be any rtv or gaskets where the pressure relief hole mates (cam tower to cylinder head)?

Is it just rtv around the perimeter and an o-ring in the oil passage? Or is there more?

#14 Gloyale

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 11:03 AM

Should there be any rtv or gaskets where the pressure relief hole mates (cam tower to cylinder head)?



no

Is it just rtv around the perimeter and an o-ring in the oil passage? Or is there more?


that's it. Again, make sure the cam followers dont' fall off or get crooked when you install the cam tower.


*tip*
If you leave the valve covers off until you are ready to install the cam sprockets, you can use a 1" wrench on the cam (hex section) to hold it while tightening cam sprocket bolts.

#15 infared067

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 02:28 PM

great thank you!

#16 markjw

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 03:52 PM

use some sticky assembly lube so the followers dont fall off as you go to install the cam tower.


Don't even try the job without getting some of this stuff. Available at any parts store.

Put a good amount on the ball pivot end of the HLV's and some on top of the valve stem.

Hang all four rockers and be percise when you go to install the cam tower. Have a coupe of the tower bolts handy to get them started. Take your time.You don't want to do this part twice.

#17 JRD

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 03:58 PM

The cracks between the intake and exhaust valves, are these not a big deal on an EA81's either? Also I have two EA81's and on one there are to smaller bolts on the underside of the heads (10mm bolt heads, attachment bolts) which the other does not have. Both engines came out of 81 GL's. Is this normal? Thanks.

#18 JRD

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 08:57 PM

Can any body answer? Please?:(




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