JacksonRally Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 I finally took a 30 mile drive with the changes and all I can say is WOW! I am now driving a completely different car. It is so smooth, firm, no more steering wheel shake, 100% night and day difference. Also it can now finally put the power down. It no longer wants to spin the right front on hard acelleration. Nor does it feel like the drivetrain is going to bail out. The old front struts were very blown and offered no control over wheelspin. Amazing, I love it! Today I need to firm up the rear shocks, so in to town I go for some shims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrettG Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 i would have never in a million years thought to use the new gen mcpherson strut on an older subaru... bravo! we need to trail ride soon!! so stoked that thing is riding smooth now... it used to be a tractor;) haha -Garrett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanurys Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) A few questions: Shock selection: Is that front strut a Subaru branded strut or something else? I'm looking for brand options which can be dissembled for welding. Camber Adjustment: Are both bolts cam-bolts or just 1 like stock EJ? How are the holes aligned on the bottom of the front shocks? Is there some camber adjustment built in or are they square/parallel with the shock tube? Why not cut out the strut mount area of the chassis and put in camber/caster plates as an alternative to what you did? (as an aside, I really like your approach) What was the process you went through to design the knuckle inserts and shock tube brackets? How did you align everything so it came out straight? Excellent job. I'm mulling over hacking the strut towers up and building in some camber adjustment where the lift block mounts to the tower. Edited April 22, 2013 by kanurys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanurys Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Oh yeah, are you farmilar with this mod? http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1911692 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmcolt969 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The front is a McPherson strut. The strut is part of the defining movement of the suspension. The front requires that the strut is fixed to the knuckle and cannot have an eyelet top and bottom. Also a coilover like the rear does not have the correct sealhead to handle the side, braking and acceleration loads. of course i was under thinking this are you going to sell this adapter for the front struts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonRally Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) A few questions: Shock selection: Is that front strut a Subaru branded strut or something else? I'm looking for brand options which can be dissembled for welding. Camber Adjustment: Are both bolts cam-bolts or just 1 like stock EJ? How are the holes aligned on the bottom of the front shocks? Is there some camber adjustment built in or are they square/parallel with the shock tube? Why not cut out the strut mount area of the chassis and put in camber/caster plates as an alternative to what you did? (as an aside, I really like your approach) What was the process you went through to design the knuckle inserts and shock tube brackets? How did you align everything so it came out straight? Excellent job. I'm mulling over hacking the strut towers up and building in some camber adjustment where the lift block mounts to the tower. Yes the strut is a factory Subaru strut. It is off of the rear of an 04 STI. Sometime you can aquire them for free, Ive also seen a complete set go for up to $450. Typically the 04's are more sought after because they will bolt directly onto an Impreza. These are what I have on my 06. 05-07 STI struts are the same in the rear but the front have a different bolt pattern (width and spread) where it bolts to the knuckle. Doesnt really matter if you remove the tabs like I did. As of right now I do not have camber adjustment. I can very easily. I have eccentric washers that we run on the rally car that I can use for any adjusting. As far as cutting out the strut tower, I dont think there is a need. You can get the camber into spec without cutting into the car. It is very tight but possible. Plus the upper mounting point relates to where you want your tire/suspension to fully compress. I can now stuff the front tire right up to the fender lip. I dont have any need for more up travel. The trick with a longer strut is you maintain you ride height, have the same amount of down travel but your gains will be from ride height to full compression. In stead of having a huge strut lift block in the way you can now use that space to gain up travel. Most of us are at the cv and tie rod limits at droop but gains can be had in bump travel. To get everything lined up you must first start by having the vehicle level front to back and side to side. I use a digital level. From there know where you want your desired ride height and know your shock/strut travel. Since I am running stock length control arms and cv axles those are a given. Now the only thing to figure out is what camber setting you want. Since the new strut is inset from the knuckle it made space in there really tight. I put the jack under the control arm and get it to the ride height and put the level on the brake rotor to measure camber, set camber where I want and tack in some steel, push, pull, tug, cycle suspension, steer both ways and make sure everything clears. Happy with the results I remove all of the tacked in plates and make the new stuff and transfer all work to the other side. That is pretty much it....in a nut shell. Note: When putting a level on the brake rotor (vertical) to measure camber you must make sure the level is level horizontal and that the rotor is steered perfectly straight. Edited April 23, 2013 by JacksonRally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanurys Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Nice write-up. That's good to know about the STI strut types. I'm going to stick with my Ford Tempo springs for now, but your mod might happen well into the future. When I approach an electrical problem I have a similar process: gather data on the current situation, decide how to change it to meet my needs, mock it up on a breadboard for testing and when I'm happy, design it for hard manufacture or proto board in a cad program. Designing is the fun part but seeing the final product to completion is satisfying. I'm still struggling with the Ford springs and getting their lengths right. It will be there eventually. If you haven't done the toyota bushing mod for the inner control arm bushings you will love it. It takes 30 min once you have all the parts, too. It's on my latest post for my car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonRally Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 Kanurys, I forgot to mention I used the stock GL springs. I do think they are showing their age and sagging a touch (the real alot!) But the front holds the ride height I want. And when flexing on a rock with the car pretty much empty they almost completely compress. This tells me a stiffer rate is not needed. When fully loaded I should be fully compressed. I am going to get new springs, rear first but keep the same rate. There are a lot of people buying the King lift springs for their Foresters and Imprezas but the increased rate does not allow fully compression based on vehicle weight. Plus when you remove the front sway bar to allow more independent movement it can and will tear out the strut from the top mount. I have seen this and it is not pretty. The factory or KYB replacement struts do not have the proper rebound dampening to control the energy of the increased spring rate. So when you lift a wheel it shoots the suspension down and tears out the top mount. With the sway bar connected it helps absorb the energy but some people remove them (everyone I know) and stuff hits the fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonRally Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 Bushings will be my next updgrade in all of the suspension pivots. I kinda need to do it asap but I need to take a break from working on the GL and get back to the grindstone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanurys Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I almost threw that question in there. For the same reason, I'm keeping all my stock stuff so I can go back if I want. I have Pedders HD springs on my Outback. They're also a 2" lift. It took a year for them to really be comfortable and soften up. But, legacy/outback suspension is way to squishy from the start, so it was a good upgrade. I'll report about the GL spring mod soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Are those struts actually longer? It looks to me like you're just trading a block at the top for a block at the bottom (not that that's a bad thing). I'm just looking at the distance between the bottom of the strut cartridge and the CV.....I think you're gaining at least 2 or 3" in ride height there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torxxx Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I'd say they are, but they arent. They still attach the original way. I dont see where he modified breaking, just the typical rip the strut out of the top hat issue. I wish I could get myself a few sets of STi struts. My OB needs them, my SVX needs them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonRally Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 Are those struts actually longer? It looks to me like you're just trading a block at the top for a block at the bottom (not that that's a bad thing). I'm just looking at the distance between the bottom of the strut cartridge and the CV.....I think you're gaining at least 2 or 3" in ride height there. Not sure on overall length. But it doesn't really matter. It has more travel and that's what I'm after. Length is built in to the strut to attach it to the knuckle at my desired ride height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonRally Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 I'd say they are, but they arent. They still attach the original way. I dont see where he modified breaking, just the typical rip the strut out of the top hat issue. I wish I could get myself a few sets of STi struts. My OB needs them, my SVX needs them Just better rebound dampening will keep the top mounts from ripping out. Or a limit strap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herb Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 looks REALLY nice actually, any chance of a similar kit being available for purchase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonRally Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 looks REALLY nice actually, any chance of a similar kit being available for purchase? Thanks! But i do not have any intentions on making this a kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonRally Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 Did some revalving to the rear shocks. Got some intel from Fox And made a nice mess I think I still need to do at least another round but I'll know more when i finally hit some trails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmcolt969 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Thanks! But i do not have any intentions on making this a kit will you atleast think about selling a few of the front adapters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 will you atleast think about selling a few of the front adapters?He said that the ones he made don't bolt up to standard EJ struts. So it would have to include the modified strut cartridges, so now you're talking about getting STi rear strut "cores". That just sounds like a nightmare for everyone involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonRally Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 ^^^^Yeah what he said. There was not enough room to keep the factory tabs on the strut or it would work as a kit. I already had to massage the sheetmetal a bit to make it work. . Now a front STI strut might work because overall it is shorter and can possibly land above the adapter, then i could adapt down to the knuckle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmcolt969 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 thank you for taking all this time, when you say not enough room to keep the factory tabs meaning is messed up the alignment? of it rubbed on something? i really like this idea and would like to do something like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanurys Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) thank you for taking all this time, when you say not enough room to keep the factory tabs meaning is messed up the alignment? of it rubbed on something? i really like this idea and would like to do something like this By "factory tabs" he's referring to the flanges on the shock tube that bolt to the knuckle insert (in this case) or directly to the knuckle on an EJ car. Alignment isn't so much the issue, it's length; To get a longer travel shock in there, JacksonRally had to put his own flanges on the shock and it's not safe to weld to a sealed strut tube, hence the re-buildable rear sti tubes, also they have the right travel for his purposes. Your questions were not real clear so I think I answered them. Let me know if I can clarify anything. Check your grammar and re-read them before posting next time so people answering the post can do so accurately and you get a clear answer (or drink less beer - I know I've been guilty of bad posting while inebriated ). I think this is my biggest peeve on any forum. Kind of a help-me-help-you sort of thing. I could be wrong about the tabs, though. We'll let JR weigh in. Edited April 25, 2013 by kanurys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonRally Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Ill see if I can take a photo of where it would have hit right now if I did not beat the sheetmetal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonRally Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) Here is a photo taken from drivers side in front of tire. Where I'm pointing to used to be bulged out about a half inch. Without beating this in the spring perch on the strut would hit. So to use the struts with factory tabs you will not be able to set the strut in enough to get within camber specs. Whoops, forgot photo Edited April 25, 2013 by JacksonRally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmcolt969 Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 By "factory tabs" he's referring to the flanges on the shock tube that bolt to the knuckle insert (in this case) or directly to the knuckle on an EJ car. Alignment isn't so much the issue, it's length; To get a longer travel shock in there, JacksonRally had to put his own flanges on the shock and it's not safe to weld to a sealed strut tube, hence the re-buildable rear sti tubes, also they have the right travel for his purposes. Your questions were not real clear so I think I answered them. Let me know if I can clarify anything. Check your grammar and re-read them before posting next time so people answering the post can do so accurately and you get a clear answer (or drink less beer - I know I've been guilty of bad posting while inebriated ). I think this is my biggest peeve on any forum. Kind of a help-me-help-you sort of thing. I could be wrong about the tabs, though. We'll let JR weigh in. Wow my post was horrible, i see now what jackson rally was talking about in regards to what was not going to clear. Not being able to see exactly what he changed on the strut, what measurements he changed, makes understanding difficult. thank you jackson rally for blazing new trails. i hope to have something like your finished project soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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