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#1 Scott in Bellingham

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 10:57 PM

So what would you build if you could only use parts from a Subaru, now the goal is to build a Offroad Wheeler , Ive seen to many threads of people building cars with other brand parts, then others jump in and say Its not a Subaru anymore so heres your challenge use only parts that have come on Subaru vehicles any year, any model , any combination of parts , what would you do ??

I dont want this to turn into a war , I would hope some good constructive ideas would come out of this , things we could apply onto future vehicles , the end vehicle may not be road legal or even look like a car, would be nice if it could carry 2 or more people

#2 The Dude Abides

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 11:23 PM

Well lets start with whats easy.

Transmission. Since its a wheeler you just cant go wrong with a ea82 dual range tranny. The ea81 series only had 4 gears and i think the overdrive would benefit those who didnt want a trailer queen.

Engine. We could argue day and night about this. The ea81 and ea82s just dont seem to have tons of grunt when coupled with big tires. I dont know how much Hp you guys want but for me something simple. I would go with either a ej22 or what i would really do is the 3.3 svx motor. That way you dont need the turbos like in the wrx motors to make the big power. Even though its heavier i think the svx would be a great butt haulin motor in a wheeler

Rear end. Obvious is welded for a dedicated offroader but i think a lsd would still be worth it. Would take away some of the pain for removing axels.

Lift. If it were me, but with not a whole lot of knowledge on the subject. I think i would a full subframe lift with subframe connectors. Something that lowers the whole car but can be welded to the bottom of the body for added structure stability. I dont know much about any of the 4 link stuff but i think you need solid axels for that.

Now the hard part. What vehicle to use.
I personally like wagons. I like them better then brats, hatches and sedans. Brats are cool theres no getting around that. But they are not roomy on the interior. I like throwing my gear in the backseat and knowing im not going to fling mud or anything else on it. Sedans are nicer but i like the open pit in the back of my wagon. I like the functuality of a vehicle. And i find a wagon fufils that. Yes hatches are superior in the approace and departure aspect but i dont think a heavy svx motor in a hatch would be good for offroading very front end heavy. I hear that ea82 axels are superior to ea81s so thats the route i would go. So to summ it up my dream wheelr would be.

1989 subaru touring wagon.
5 speed dual range
3.3 svx motor
3.7 lsd
I believe it has been done but buy some beefed up cv shafts for added strength.
6inch or more full subframe lift with subframe connectors
Heavy duty utility bumpers with rear tire mount over bumper for weight distribution and a waren winch.
Probally run 31 or 33 inch tires on chevy wheels with custom drilled 6 lug hubs with rear disc conversion.

Edited by The Dude Abides, 11 April 2010 - 11:26 PM.


#3 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 11:26 PM

A forester

A sawzall

31" tires

#4 88Subi4x4

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 01:55 AM

^ hahah yes!

#5 VaporTrail

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 06:57 AM

So what would you build if you could only use parts from a Subaru, now the goal is to build a Offroad Wheeler , Ive seen to many threads of people building cars with other brand parts, then others jump in and say Its not a Subaru anymore so heres your challenge use only parts that have come on Subaru vehicles any year, any model , any combination of parts , what would you do ??

I dont want this to turn into a war , I would hope some good constructive ideas would come out of this , things we could apply onto future vehicles , the end vehicle may not be road legal or even look like a car, would be nice if it could carry 2 or more people


I think you'd be hard pressed to find any purebred wheelers out there...
especially the more extreme you go....

What type of wheeling you're going to do would dictate some of your choices of parts....

#6 SoobieDoo

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 07:53 AM

How about a modded ABS system for a front locker? I'm assuming that newer subarus have some kind of traction control like that, but maybe an early system by another brand would work better. Flip a switch, and have brakes applied to the wheel that slips, without touching the pedal!!! I know that I've read about this before somewhere...

~E

#7 The Beast I Drive

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 09:44 AM

EA82 chassis
4.444 JDM Forester D/R case, tailsection, ring and pinion shafts
EA82 D/R 1.59:1 reduction gears
RX drive gears 1-5
clutch LSD front diff
welded 4.444 rear
8" lift
31" tires
EJ22 or hi-po EA81
reinforced stock control arms
6-lug swap

Best you can do with Subaru parts, with a body that is common enough no one cares how trashed it gets.

-Bill

#8 ezapar

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 11:03 AM

It would be hard to make an older off roader with only Subaru parts. For starters, they only came with 13 inch wheels. You get away from "subaru only" as soon as you put those Pug wheels on. You would have to swap in 5 lug stuff from a newer one to be able to put bigger tires on.

Subaru doesn't make a lift, so a lift is out too.



We went over all this with the Australians a few years ago when they refused to recognize Ken's brat after we added a transfer case and solid rear axle. A "bitsa" they called it.

Who cares what people think Scott. You know and I know that there are straght up limitations when off road in Subaru that can only be over come by more bigger mods. Those mods just happen to include parts from other vehicles.

If it has a Subaru body and is powered by a Subaru motor. . . That's all you need.

#9 Numbchux

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 11:42 AM

^I think aftermarket parts, designed for a subaru are acceptable when discussing an "All Subaru" wheeler. but taking parts off of another car brand, and fabricating them to work on a subaru is over the line.

bigger tires weren't designed for subarus.....

wheels....well, yea. almost no options. some AA wheels that were made for subarus, but I think we might have to overlook that.




that said....


some pretty conservative suggestions. he said ANY combination of subaru parts. Subaru made a ton of sweet stuff





Baja
made into a 2-door, longbed
Exocage/tube bumpers/integrated winch
EDM Subaru diesel swap
some big ol' redneck exhaust stacks behind the cab
8" of lift (probably 8" blocks at the crossmembers, replacing the stock 1" block, 8" total strut extensions, stock struts, and mild lift springs.)
31" Kumho M/T tires on 15" Team Dynamics wheels
276mm front brakes and 290mm rear
r180 rear diff/axles/hubs, probably welded.


now, the transmission is the hard part. as I don't know what was available with the diesel. But I'm thinking a 5EAT for a gas motor would probably be geared pretty low for a diesel. add the big tires, and it would probably be just fine on the freeway. add a big ol' tranny cooler, and let the TC slip offroad.


SoobieDoo is onto something with the VDC thing. if you've got 10 minutes, check out this video.....the subaru VDC demo is pretty cool:

I think it would be very hard to retrofit....but the results could be pretty sweet.

#10 Scott in Bellingham

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 01:30 PM

I have a few questions, whats the strongest axles made for a subaru? , whats the lowest Crawl ratio you can acheive , :banana:

#11 kamnk

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 03:12 PM

take impreza EJ16 transmition it has the lovest low range in subaru and add 4.444 diff and pinion shaft wuld like to have lsd cluch type in the front + welded reer end with 4.444 diff

take outback or legacy cut the middle of the car out and you will have an awesome wheler

engine must be EJ25 phase two

#12 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 03:21 PM

If I were to build another Subaru... I would be doing exactly what Monstaru is doing.

#13 SoobieDoo

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 07:35 PM


I think it would be very hard to retrofit....but the results could be pretty sweet.


That VDC video is pretty cool. Coupled with low range, that would be a great mod...but yes, too much for me to tackle. :eek:
I may just try the ABS locker someday, though. A simple 3-sensor system with the rear disconnected, swap pump lines so the wheel that spins gets brake pressure, and disable the pressure relief so the wheel doesn't pulse. It just may be possible. :banana:

#14 Uberoo

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 08:28 PM

EA82 RX body
Forester suspension + axles
4.444 LSD ring and pinion and welded rear diff
EJ DR transmission
Ea82 Low range gearset
Subaru Diesel Boxer

then 31" tires,lights,CB radio,etc but those arn't exactly "subaru OEM parts"

#15 Numbchux

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 10:43 PM

I have a few questions, whats the strongest axles made for a subaru? , whats the lowest Crawl ratio you can acheive , :banana:


STi, definitely. '05+ to be specific. but those would require 5x114.3 hubs and such.

somewhere around 25:1.

take impreza EJ16 transmition it has the lovest low range in subaru and add 4.444 diff and pinion shaft wuld like to have lsd cluch type in the front + welded reer end with 4.444 diff


what's the lo range on an EJ16 box? lower than the EA82 1.59?

That VDC video is pretty cool. Coupled with low range, that would be a great mod...


unfortunately, VDC is only available with the auto. it would not be easy to get it to work without the TCU.

#16 baccaruda

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 12:04 AM

If you built it "because you like Subarus" then who gives a damn about the details :rolleyes:

#17 Gloyale

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 09:02 AM

How about a modded ABS system for a front locker? I'm assuming that newer subarus have some kind of traction control like that, but maybe an early system by another brand would work better. Flip a switch, and have brakes applied to the wheel that slips, without touching the pedal!!! I know that I've read about this before somewhere...

~E


Just add a second E-brake handle.

I did it on my GL and it is the SHiite.

Last summer in New Mexico, my 4EAT sheared the rear transfer hub. Top of an 8500 FT mountain, with a pretty muddy trail up over and off.

Without the Dual E-brakes, I would have been stuck for sure, but with, I was able to get out in FWD.

#18 monstaru

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 10:54 AM

That VDC video is pretty cool. Coupled with low range, that would be a great mod...but yes, too much for me to tackle. :eek:
I may just try the ABS locker someday, though. A simple 3-sensor system with the rear disconnected, swap pump lines so the wheel that spins gets brake pressure, and disable the pressure relief so the wheel doesn't pulse. It just may be possible. :banana:


line locks would be easier, and probably cheaper by the time you had some brake lines made.....just sayin.cheers, brian

#19 Scott in Bellingham

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 11:55 AM


1989 subaru touring wagon.
5 speed dual range
3.3 svx motor
3.7 lsd
run 31 or 33 inch tires


whats the final crawl ratio , axle strength with that tire size?


EA82 chassis
4.444 JDM Forester D/R case, tailsection, ring and pinion shafts
EA82 D/R 1.59:1 reduction gears
RX drive gears 1-5
clutch LSD front diff
welded 4.444 rear
8" lift
31" tires
EJ22 or hi-po EA81


Final crawl ratio ?




Baja
made into a 2-door, longbed
Exocage/tube bumpers/integrated winch
EDM Subaru diesel swap
some big ol' redneck exhaust stacks behind the cab
8" of lift (probably 8" blocks at the crossmembers, replacing the stock 1" block, 8" total strut extensions, stock struts, and mild lift springs.)
31" Kumho M/T tires on 15" Team Dynamics wheels
276mm front brakes and 290mm rear
r180 rear diff/axles/hubs, probably welded.


now, the transmission is the hard part. as I don't know what was available with the diesel. But I'm thinking a 5EAT for a gas motor would probably be geared pretty low for a diesel. add the big tires, and it would probably be just fine on the freeway. add a big ol' tranny cooler, and let the TC slip offroad.


Legacy cut the middle of the car out and you will have an awesome wheler

engine must be EJ25 phase two


final CR? overall Weight?

EA82 RX body
Forester suspension + axles
4.444 LSD ring and pinion and welded rear diff
EJ DR transmission
Ea82 Low range gearset
Subaru Diesel Boxer

then 31" tires,lights,CB radio,etc but those arn't exactly "subaru OEM parts"


Final Crawl Ratio?


OK things I look for in a offroader are

Weight......
Power.......
Final Crawl Ratio
Flex.........
Traction, Tires and diffs
Price

these cars mentioned with the mods are nothing new, lets put our heads together and come up with a light weight low geared Cheep Offroad Toy ,

maybe take the engine and transaxle unit put it mid car turn it 90degrees and run the front axles off one axle and the rear axles off the other axle , basically use the front final drive as a transfercase , weld up the diff gears to get a true 4x4 , maybe even throw th car body away and build up a tube frame , come on guys start thinkin up stuff, dont copy the last 100s of lifted soobies , ok Ive leave for now Scott

#20 The Dude Abides

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 01:18 PM

See when you talk final crawl you kinda lose me which means maybe i shouldnt put in input. I understand what your saying but you can go almost anywhere with this. And whose to say it can be done. As far as i know the only dual range transmissions were in the 79-89 subarus so you would need to stick with that. Now if you are able to split the case and change gearing inside i wouldnt even begin to know how to attempt that or if its been done. If you wanted a subaru only dedicated offroader then you want the dual range.

Ok i told you what i wanted but ill try to think where your going.
ea82 rx body choped to just the structure then chop the a** off.
Fuel Cell
Internal Cage and exoskelitan for added safety and ridgity.
Still say Svx Motor with rear cargo rack for weight distribution.
I dont know if the flex your looking for is acheveable with factory subaru things. CVs arent ment to flex extremem amounts so i guess heres where im stumped. Because i cant wrap around useing legacy or wrx or forester parts on the ea82 dual range case because i thought those didnt interchange.

#21 The Beast I Drive

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 02:24 PM

IIRC, the CR with RX gears, 1.59 low range and 4.444 gears was like 23.something:1, or real close to stock Toyota gearing. With 31" tires, which is stock on most newer Toyotas, thats a huge improvement over stock Subaru numbers, and enough to go almost anywhere. Or at least anywhere a stock Toyota with a 3" lift could go...

-Bill

#22 monstaru

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 02:56 PM

a good chart to go by is this http://www.marlincra...ratio_calc.html

and scott, just about the lowest ratios you can get are gonna be about 25:1.....the diff. gears are the major issues.

the tube frame i built (and am building) is not the cheapest.even if you use HREW tubing you are looking at about 400 bones JUST for tubing.good prices can be had.

you yourself have taken these cars as far as they can go and maintained a "cheap" theme...

my next tube buggy will be all chassis, no body transverse engine mount, with subie auto trans,zooki axles(i like them, size wise, and they have chromoly shafts for them nowadays)

this one is kinda my last attempt at humor....i am only keeping the body so people can go(WTF)......



i am one of the cheapest bastards around.and i am still into this about :
tube(square and round):750
axles(combined, and more to come to rebuild,includes gears)535
t-case gears:499
air shocks:700
rims:80
87 hatchback:free
engine(plus head gaskets and such):150
steering stuffs:175
fuel cell: 150
tires: came from tow rig=basically free
umm....those are the majors.whats that:so far over 2850 bucks.and i don't even have my hydro lines, brake lines, seats, harnesses, etc...

over time of course.but that does not include the tools i had to buy to get to this point
welder:500
tubing bender:300
dies for bender:300
drill press:50
chop saw:100
1250 plus all the consumables, etc.....

Lilly had about 700 total into her.that was trading stuff, and what i had laying around.

i mean, cheap options , i am all for.but sometimes, unless you have a full shop at your disposal it is just not possible......

what i am building is MY ultimate subaru.have been planning, learning how to, and looking forward to the day that i am driveable in this rig for about 3 or 4 yrs now.

everything i have been doing up to this point, is for this rig. and what i learn on this rig will be carried over to the next.

i know there are cheap wheelers out there, but, what realm are you looking to be in?ar eyou looking for something stock you can run on the street?trail only, etc.....are you looking for stock parts to make maintenance easier?

as far as my choice.i want this, this
cheers, brain

Edited by monstaru, 13 April 2010 - 05:22 PM.


#23 Uberoo

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 03:07 PM

ok scott, you want low gearing with subaru stuff.Fine.

Whatever engine you like
EJ DR transmission with 4.444 gears with EA82 Low range.Into an identical twin of the first transmission.Hooked up to a nissan transfercase(its still FHI). then 4.444 LSD up front and 4.444 welded rear diff.

or for space sake: EJ DR box/4.444 gears/EA82 Low range hooked into a doubled nissan transfercase(2 transfercases).

#24 Numbchux

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 05:42 PM

my ideal setup wouldn't have very good crawl ratios, because I want to use an automatic.

I'd also like to use an R180 rear end, and AFAIK, the lowest they were geared was a 3.90....

but I think an auto trans designed for a gas motor, behind a diesel, would be kickass.


also.....a built/loaded baja like that, probably 3500 lbs. But, that setup is if money were no object.



I'm not the one to talk to about really going hardcore on a reasonable budget with a subaru. I hit my breaking point (pun intended :grin: ), and switched to a Toyota.....

#25 monstaru

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 06:44 PM

the axles would not hold up........

ok scott, you want low gearing with subaru stuff.Fine.

Whatever engine you like
EJ DR transmission with 4.444 gears with EA82 Low range.Into an identical twin of the first transmission.Hooked up to a nissan transfercase(its still FHI). then 4.444 LSD up front and 4.444 welded rear diff.

or for space sake: EJ DR box/4.444 gears/EA82 Low range hooked into a doubled nissan transfercase(2 transfercases).






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