38 replies to this topic

[vic622]

98 OBW 2.5 DOHC AT

I can't seem to clear the ABS codes.
Here's what I've done:

Key out
Connect Diagnosis Connector to #6 Terminal
Key to "On"
Read codes until ABS light stays steady on
Disconnect Diagnosis Connector from #6 Terminal
Within 12 sec, connect & disconnect 3x Diagnosis Connector to #6 Terminal
Key "Off"

When I repeat the Read cycle, the stored codes are still there ...
Help!

From this diagram, should I be reconnecting the Diagnosis Connector after I've done the 3x connect/disconnect?

Edited by vic622, 16 April 2010 - 02:28 PM.
fixed

[GeneralDisorder]

When I did it the first time it didn't work either - I had to slow down with my connnect/disconnect of the test lead with the #6 terminal. It has to be done within like 12 seconds but it seems that if you do it too rapidly it doesn't catch what you are doing. Either that or you have to pull the pin out - *then* do it three times. So it's almost like doing it 4 times. Anyway I got mine to go away by just modifying my procedure a bit till it worked. Give it a try with a few variations and maybe slow down a scoshe.

And yes - I ended the procedure with pin IN the plug. Then I cycled the power and only got the code 11.

GD

[vic622]

When I did it the first time it didn't work either - I had to slow down with my connnect/disconnect of the test lead with the #6 terminal. It has to be done within like 12 seconds but it seems that if you do it too rapidly it doesn't catch what you are doing. Either that or you have to pull the pin out - *then* do it three times. So it's almost like doing it 4 times. Anyway I got mine to go away by just modifying my procedure a bit till it worked. Give it a try with a few variations and maybe slow down a scoshe.

And yes - I ended the procedure with pin IN the plug. Then I cycled the power and only got the code 11.

GD

Thanks - It's funny that the description doesn't quite match the diagram. I'll give your method a try.

What is even weirder is that I drove it after and the ABS light (which is why I want to clear & check) was off and came back on after about 1.5mi of driving.

[GeneralDisorder]

Thanks - It's funny that the description doesn't quite match the diagram. I'll give your method a try.

What is even weirder is that I drove it after and the ABS light (which is why I want to clear & check) was off and came back on after about 1.5mi of driving.

Hhhmmm - well it's probably all checking out till you start turning the wheels so it could be a cracked tone ring or something. If any of the sensors had an open circuit the light should be on all the time since the computer is able to check that while the car is not moving. After I cleared the codes the light was still on - I found an open circuit on the left rear sensor. I'm about to replace it now and we'll see if that takes care of the problem for me. I had 3 codes stored.

GD

[vic622]

Today I should be able to get the codes cleared & tear things apart & have a look to see if anything is obvious.

How hard is it to change the tone ring? Do I need to take the hub off?

[OB99W]

Today I should be able to get the codes cleared & tear things apart & have a look to see if anything is obvious.[...]

Before you tear things apart, you might want to post the codes.

[vic622]

Before you tear things apart, you might want to post the codes.

Good idea ... I'll finish my coffee & get things cleared & reread.

BTW, yesterday it read about 6 different codes, but the first code to come up (the most recent?) was a 24.

The Connector was still taped to the loom, so I doubt that it was ever read/cleared before.

[bheinen74]

are you actually tracking the code source and replacing the defective parts?
If you are just clearing the codes to clear them, they will come back. The system does a series of checks, and if the checks dont pass, you get a ABS light. You have to fix the problem to get it to pass, and no light/

[vic622]

are you actually tracking the code source and replacing the defective parts?
If you are just clearing the codes to clear them, they will come back. The system does a series of checks, and if the checks dont pass, you get a ABS light. You have to fix the problem to get it to pass, and no light/

Are old codes stored, or only existing codes/current problems?

I wanted to clear any/all old codes so I could isolate the current problem before I started repairs. Once I had any old codes cleared, I'd go for a test drive and any codes would be the thing(s) I need to check or repair.

From what you say, it doesn't work this way?
Any codes displayed are current problems?

[GeneralDisorder]

From what you say, it doesn't work this way?
Any codes displayed are current problems?

It is best, as was your plan, to clear them, test drive it, and then when the light comes on pull the codes and fix what it gives you. Then repeat. Sometimes a single bad component can cause multiple codes - especially if left unrepaired for a long period of time. Phantom codes are not uncommon with stuff like this.

GD

[vic622]

Okay, now you've got me confused

So I can clear the codes while the problem still exists?

When I start the car (after clearing) it should run the checks & come up with a new set of codes - these may be the same as the cleared codes?

A faulty G-sensor (code 56) may just be a code thrown because something else (like a LF speed sensor code 24) is faulty?

From the new codes, I should be able to isolate the problem(s)?

[vic622]

It is best, as was your plan, to clear them, test drive it, and then when the light comes on pull the codes and fix what it gives you. Then repeat. Sometimes a single bad component can cause multiple codes - especially if left unrepaired for a long period of time. Phantom codes are not uncommon with stuff like this.

GD

BTW, Thanks for your help, GD.

The ABS light came on Sunday, after changing the LF ball joint.
It hadn't been on before.
I suspect either some crud dropped off the backing plate or rotor onto the tone ring or speed sensor from all the banging around to free the ball joint.

We were pretty careful, & there aren't any signs that we smacked the speed sensor, so I'm hoping its not that.

I wanted to pull some fresh ABS codes before tearing apart the front hub to check the tone ring.

[GeneralDisorder]

Yes - you might have to drive a mile or two for the codes to come back - depends on the problem. The ABS unit is continously checking for problems - in my case the left rear sensor was *gone* as far as the computer was concerned - the circuit read open when it should have read about 1000 Ohms. Because of the nature of the failure - the ABS computer refused to turn off the light even after I reset the codes. I reset them (still had the light) then only got code 11. After driving for about 2 to 3 minutes I pulled back into the garage and pulled the codes again - sure enough I got the code 27 (but *only* that code... and 11 of course). I have replaced the sensor and the light immediately went out *on it's own*. I still have to do a test drive and see if there are any remaining problems. I am hopeful it's taken care of.

As to the question about cracked tone rings - you actually have to press the hub out of the bearings to get them off - so if that's the problem you are looking at doing a wheel bearing job as well as replacing the tone ring. Newer Subaru's use a tone ring on the axle like a lot of other makes. Though I have never had one crack here on the west coast - I'm sure in the rust belt it's more common.

GD

[GeneralDisorder]

Okay, now you've got me confused

So I can clear the codes while the problem still exists?

When I start the car (after clearing) it should run the checks & come up with a new set of codes - these may be the same as the cleared codes?

A faulty G-sensor (code 56) may just be a code thrown because something else (like a LF speed sensor code 24) is faulty?

From the new codes, I should be able to isolate the problem(s)?

All that is correct. But more than starting the car is required for some of the checks. Untill the wheels start turning - some of the diagnostic routines cannot be run by the computer. You will have to drive it to be sure.

GD

[vic622]

Good news about the tone ring - this car has spent its life on the Prairies and the Rockies, so I'm thinking its not rust belt issues, at least not for cracking.

When you pull the front hub, does that screw up the bearings? Seals?

From the diagrams, it looks like the tone ring is attached to the hub with allen bolts and doesn't look like it's gotta have the bearings removed to take it off?

Where did you pick up your sensor?
The best price I could find was https://www.subaruonlineparts.com for ~$102.

[GeneralDisorder]

When you pull the front hub, does that screw up the bearings? Seals?

The front hub is pressed into the inner and outer bearing cone's (tapered roller bearings). Pressing it out requires that you press *through* the rollers (they will transmit the force) and as such it requires bearing replacement anytime you remove the hub.

From the diagrams, it looks like the tone ring is attached to the hub with allen bolts and doesn't look like it's gotta have the bearings removed to take it off?

It is attached with allen-head cap bolts but unfortunately it only comes off from the inner side of the hub - without removeing the hub from the bearings the hub prevents the tone ring from comming off to the outside, and the knuckle prevents it from comming off to the inside - it is trapped until the hub is pressed free of the bearings.

Where did you pick up your sensor?
The best price I could find was https://www.subaruonlineparts.com for ~$102.

You aren't going to like me after this ...... junk yard. I went and pulled two of them myself. Luckily here on the west coast there is no shortage of cars with ZERO rust. So they come out easily. If there is any amount of rust the sensors are almost always destroyed trying to remove them....... I got lucky on the first try which means I have an extra left rear sensor now which I will sell to you for the $15 I paid for it.... should you need that exact one. I might be convinced to pull one or more of the other's from those same car's for a bit of compensation on the time end of the deal......

Oh - and I just test drove it with the new sensor. Works great. I locked em up in a vacant parking lot and could feel the ABS engage. No light, no codes. So my three codes were really just the code 27. The others were something about a motor/relay and unexpected wheel sensor signals.... probably due to brake dust and gunk build-up which I cleaned away when I inspected each of the sensors.

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder, 13 April 2010 - 09:20 PM.

[vic622]

Okay, so I had another look at the diagrams and see what you mean. Kinda sucks to have to go through all that to get the hub off - I guess that'll be a project for another day!

I'm going to remove the speed sensor today & have a look & clean and see if it makes any difference.

If I take the caliper/rotor off, can I get at enough of the tone ring to clean it while the hub is still attached?

There aren't enough wreckers around here to get my choice of year/make/model, if the sensor is cratered, I might take you up on salvaging one for me

[OB99W]

[...]I'm going to remove the speed sensor today & have a look & clean and see if it makes any difference.[...]

Before you do that, compare the gap between the sensor tip and tone wheel on the side with the problem to the gap on the working side.

[GeneralDisorder]

I'm going to remove the speed sensor today & have a look & clean and see if it makes any difference.

There's nothing to clean and I don't sugest you try to remove them. They can be troublesome and the risk of damage is high. Check their resistance with a multi-meter and visually inspect the tip to make sure it's not worn down - check the gap as OB99W mentions. Mine were about 1000 Ohms with no wear to the tips - the bad one just read open on it's connector.

If I take the caliper/rotor off, can I get at enough of the tone ring to clean it while the hub is still attached?

Yes - I used compressed air and a soft wire brush to clean all of mine.

GD

[vic622]

Before you do that, compare the gap between the sensor tip and tone wheel on the side with the problem to the gap on the working side.

I hadn't thought of that - worth doing a comparison.

[vic622]

So it looks as though its the sensor.
There was a 1/4' scrape on the sensor boot, so we must have hit it when we were changing the ball joint.

It was a bugger to test, but it was only reading about 500 ohms and seemed intermittent - almost like the wire at the connector (in the engine bay) was broken.
I cleaned the tone ring with a wire wheel & it looks good and no sign of any cracks.
The gap was about .040" and the sensor had some filings on it which I cleaned with brake cleaner.

I cleared the codes, but it's still reading errors, #24 plus a bunch of others.

Time to try the wreckers and see if anyone has a sensor!

What years and models have the same sensors?
Mine is a 98OBW with AT.

[GeneralDisorder]

What years and models have the same sensors?
Mine is a 98OBW with AT.

If it's the Nippon system (ABS-2E) then they started using that back in '95.... so anything from '95 to '99 I would bet. '00 stuff might be different - they changed a lot that year.

GD

[vic622]

If it's the Nippon system (ABS-2E) then they started using that back in '95.... so anything from '95 to '99 I would bet. '00 stuff might be different - they changed a lot that year.

GD

How do I confirm which system it is?

Will this be on any model (Legacy, Forester, Impreza) with ABS in these years, or just OBW?

[OB99W]

How do I confirm which system it is? [...]

See:
http://www.endwrench.com/current/summer02/insiderinfo.pdf
http://www.endwrench.com/pdf/brakes/FtSubaruABSS99.pdf

Important Note:
The End Wrench website that we've been able to access is currently not available. In its place is the old site info (circa 2004), with a much more limited number of articles available. When I tried to look at ABS info based on URLs in my files, I got a response similar to the following:
"Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /images/pdfs/IdentifyInfo.pdf on this server."

Hopefully, this is a temporary situation -- it would be great if the site is "limited" because it's being improved. However, it may be that Subaru has decided to no longer support independent servicers in this manner. I'd suggest that any of you interested in the articles still available at the www.endwrench.com site download them while you can.

I haven't yet tried to use the Internet Archive (www.archive.org) "Wayback Machine" to see if the material can be retrieved that way.

EDIT: The articles I tried to access using archive.org resulted in "Not in Archive".

Edited by OB99W, 15 April 2010 - 08:19 AM.

[vic622]

...

Important Note:
The End Wrench website that we've been able to access is currently not available. In its place is the old site info (circa 2004), with a much more limited number of articles available. When I tried to look at ABS info based on URLs in my files, I got a response similar to the following:
"Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /images/pdfs/IdentifyInfo.pdf on this server."

Hopefully, this is a temporary situation -- it would be great if the site is "limited" because it's being improved. However, it may be that Subaru has decided to no longer support independent servicers in this manner. I'd suggest that any of you interested in the articles still available at the www.endwrench.com site download them while you can.

I couldn't even get the site to load 2 days ago, but it seems to be up today.
Like you said, hopefully this is was a temporary glitch.

I was able to follow your links, as well as going through the front door at www.endwrench.com