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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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W series Toyota trans adaptors


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574 replies to this topic

#26 bill hincher

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 12:11 PM

I just realized you're located in Toledo, Bill....that makes this project 10x cooler!


where are you stormy?

#27 Storm

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:33 PM

where are you stormy?

Just east of Cleveland, but I get out that way on occasion. This thread sparks alot of interest as a friend currently has a similar transplant underway in our shop. Non Subie donor or destination, but nonetheless similar in the end result. Should draw alot of "WTF....you did WHAT?" comments. :grin:

I'll Pm when we'll be headed out your way....we can grab a beer or 3 and talk fab work!


Jay

#28 doobieryan

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 03:18 AM

this puts lots of awesome ideas in my head! man how i would love a solid front axled BRAT!!!! haha. So sweet

#29 bill hincher

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 05:13 PM

the contct circle in the clutch diaphram is huge compared to what I am used to, either the throwout bearing will be found or the diaphram spring must be replaced

Posted Image
the disc is a dirct bolt up from the Toyota 22r engine, the Sub is on the left and the Toy is on the right , both 9 inch
Posted Image
the pilot bearing on the toy and the sub are the same, that is a Toyota w 55/59 input shaft with a Toyota 9in disc attached to the sub flywheel and pilot bearing
Posted Image
the Sub pressure plate bolts right over the Toyota disc, fits like a glove
Posted Image
Posted Image
the Toyota W series trans face plate mated to the Toyota disc in the Sub flywheel/pressure plate, this will also re-use the Sub starter
Posted Image
its looking good but we have alot of work to do yet
Posted Image

#30 bill hincher

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 05:19 PM

[quote name='bill hincher']lets have some fun >;o)
one of your fearless members asked me about a bellhousing to mate the sub engine to a purely rwd unit, preferably the toyota w series transmission, i thought it was a neet idea
the only trouble was is that my main man mellow65 lived a cool 1500 miles away from me, so he sent me some material in the mail

Posted Image
come a long way >;o)

Edited by bill hincher, 06 August 2010 - 05:23 PM.


#31 mellow65

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 07:21 PM

come a long way >;o)


even farther when you think it came home as a full tranny.

glad to see you got flywheel. :)

#32 mellow65

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 01:53 PM

hey bill, are the mounting holes for the toyota pressure plate and subaru pressure plate on about the same circumference?

my buddy that is running ungodly power via a NA clutch gave me the web page that made the pressure plate for him.

clutchnet.com

they manufacture their own clutches. so i was thinking either have have a toyota pressure plate drilled with the subaru pattern or have a subaru one built with toyota diaphragm springs.

or i know there were a couple good clutch places around here that used to make clutches how ever you wanted.

i don't know, just thinking out loud you probably have more clutch connections then i ever will

#33 bill hincher

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 07:41 PM

hey bill, are the mounting holes for the toyota pressure plate and subaru pressure plate on about the same circumference?

my buddy that is running ungodly power via a NA clutch gave me the web page that made the pressure plate for him.

clutchnet.com

they manufacture their own clutches. so i was thinking either have have a toyota pressure plate drilled with the subaru pattern or have a subaru one built with toyota diaphragm springs.

or i know there were a couple good clutch places around here that used to make clutches how ever you wanted.

i don't know, just thinking out loud you probably have more clutch connections then i ever will


the bottom line is cost. when I build a bellhousing, I want a cost effective, easy to get parts for, system that an entry level guy can afford.
There aint nothin worse then buying something that dont fit and then you gotta buy this and that and grind something down, thats all crap
The bellhousing should do all the design work, the parts should be 'over the counter' stuff from the local parts store, after that, if somebody wants to spend a ton of money on the latest and greatest ..............have at it dude!

#34 mellow65

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 09:17 PM

the bottom line is cost. when I build a bellhousing, I want a cost effective, easy to get parts for, system that an entry level guy can afford.
There aint nothin worse then buying something that dont fit and then you gotta buy this and that and grind something down, thats all crap
The bellhousing should do all the design work, the parts should be 'over the counter' stuff from the local parts store, after that, if somebody wants to spend a ton of money on the latest and greatest ..............have at it dude!


I'm with you on wanting to use stock parts. i was just going off what you said about maybe needing to swap out the springs. his double diaphragmed pressure plate with a 6 puk i want to say he said it was in that $300-400 range. no more then good performance clutch.

but ill stop bothering with my random mombo jombo thinking out loud and let the real people get back to work. :)

#35 Numbchux

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 12:49 AM

the design hopes to use all Sub hardware , like clutch fork, pivot ball and slave cylinder flywheel. starter and pressure plate with just a Toyota disc to finish the build


well, if this holds true. no swapping or modifying of the pressure plate will be necessary. subaru pressure plate and subaru clutch fork = subaru throwout bearing.



which means, if you need something better, get an upgraded pressure plate for a push-style subaru. done.

#36 mellow65

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 12:55 AM

well, if this holds true. no swapping or modifying of the pressure plate will be necessary. subaru pressure plate and subaru clutch fork = subaru throwout bearing.



which means, if you need something better, get an upgraded pressure plate for a push-style subaru. done.


except the center of the subaru throw out is to small to fit over the snout of the toyota tranny.

hence the problem with finding the right throw out bearing

#37 scrap487

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:49 AM

this may be a bit out there/ignorant/lazy question cause i'm still fairly new to the toyota stuff... but here it goes:

Any body know how similar or easy it would be to adapt this bell housing you're working to an early landcruiser transmission if it all? I want to say completely differant, aka completely differant/unrelated project but I've been a bit curious about the ez36, but I dunno if that really would be all that satisfying for the cost vs dropping in a cummins 4bt or 6bt I've been dreaming of :slobber: but I'm still curious about it...

#38 Numbchux

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:51 AM

except the center of the subaru throw out is to small to fit over the snout of the toyota tranny.

hence the problem with finding the right throw out bearing


I see......hmmmm

#39 bill hincher

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 08:24 AM

this may be a bit out there/ignorant/lazy question cause i'm still fairly new to the toyota stuff... but here it goes:

Any body know how similar or easy it would be to adapt this bell housing you're working to an early landcruiser transmission if it all? I want to say completely differant, aka completely differant/unrelated project but I've been a bit curious about the ez36, but I dunno if that really would be all that satisfying for the cost vs dropping in a cummins 4bt or 6bt I've been dreaming of :slobber: but I'm still curious about it...


The first step to every long juorney is the first step, Me and Matt made the descision at the very begining about what we would be building, that focus must not be detoured
I spend about $5000.00 per design, and hundreds of man hours building one pattern, then some guy from Texas writes to me and says ' my neighbor has a trans he aint using, could you build me an adaptor for it? ' ( true story)
whats in your wallet?:)

#40 Gloyale

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 11:54 AM

except the center of the subaru throw out is to small to fit over the snout of the toyota tranny.

hence the problem with finding the right throw out bearing


How much difference are we talking here? If it's only a few MM, there might be a solution.

Anyone ever have to use one of the "quill" repair sleeves and matching oversized throwout on a Subaru AWD trans? It occured to me that one of those throwouts will match the Subaru Pressure Plate.....but has a larger diameter center.

So perhaps one buy a "quill kit" throwout bearing, and use it on the yota trans without the quill sleeve.

Anybody happen to have one of these bearings around? Ship it out to old Bill here and see if it slides over the Toyota input shaft.:grin:

#41 mellow65

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:29 PM

How much difference are we talking here? If it's only a few MM, there might be a solution.

Anyone ever have to use one of the "quill" repair sleeves and matching oversized throwout on a Subaru AWD trans? It occured to me that one of those throwouts will match the Subaru Pressure Plate.....but has a larger diameter center.

So perhaps one buy a "quill kit" throwout bearing, and use it on the yota trans without the quill sleeve.

Anybody happen to have one of these bearings around? Ship it out to old Bill here and see if it slides over the Toyota input shaft.:grin:


you might have something there, the subaru inputs 33mm and the toyota ones 35mm both of those are ish :)

you got a link for the quill kit

#42 bill hincher

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 11:58 AM

that does seem to be the proper bearing, its from a 3SGE Toyota engine
I have one on its way now from Dan at compitition clutch , who by the way is the ONLY guy to work with on your clutch systems, he has always been a great help
the remaining detail is the depth required for the bearing to ride on the existing Toyota throw out bearing sleeve on the w series trans
Posted Image

what I gotta knowwwwwwwwww is , why are there 2 clutch fork pivots in the bellhousing? the only one I need it the outer one, is this an option? or required

Edited by bill hincher, 11 August 2010 - 12:19 PM.


#43 mellow65

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 12:58 PM

that does seem to be the proper bearing, its from a 3SGE Toyota engine
I have one on its way now from Dan at compitition clutch , who by the way is the ONLY guy to work with on your clutch systems, he has always been a great help
the remaining detail is the depth required for the bearing to ride on the existing Toyota throw out bearing sleeve on the w series trans
Posted Image

what I gotta knowwwwwwwwww is , why are there 2 clutch fork pivots in the bellhousing? the only one I need it the outer one, is this an option? or required


the second hole was only used for a cable clutch. you have pretty much removed the chance of that happening, so what ever one i left the pivot ball in when i shipped it to you is the right one.

subaru was nice enough to allow you to use the newer trans in a older car. :)

like right now i'm using a 03 tranny in a 93 car. came in hydraulic clutched car using it in a cabled clutch car, all i had to do was move the ball and use a cable clutch fork.

btw i sent you the hydraulic clutch fork, the cable clutch fork is different.

Edited by mellow65, 11 August 2010 - 01:02 PM.


#44 Numbchux

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 01:23 PM

would be nice if either one could be used. For those of us thinking of using this to tcase an older car, it'd be nice not to have to convert to hydraulic.

#45 bill hincher

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 01:48 PM

would be nice if either one could be used. For those of us thinking of using this to tcase an older car, it'd be nice not to have to convert to hydraulic.


its a 'bit' leave it in! said the director!

#46 mellow65

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 01:50 PM

Posted Image


as you can see, he kind of took the spots where the cable clutch bracket would have gone. you might still be able to make a bracket work but would have to be made

adding a hydro isn't the end of the world. but sorry i didn't think about it more when i talked to him originally.

but yeah bill if you leave that other hole it leaves it open for guys wanting to run cable clutch assuming a bracket could be built, on our side of coarse.

but remember also, it's one more thing he has to map out, drill and tap. it's just more work for him. he's done so so much, i'm willing to work with what he gives us. i mean really you can only ask so much

#47 bill hincher

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 01:58 PM

but remember also, it's one more thing he has to map out, drill and tap. it's just more work for him. he's done so so much, i'm willing to work with what he gives us. i mean really you can only ask so much


whiner:banana:

#48 mellow65

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:16 PM

whiner:banana:


hey now, i was whining for you. but feel free to leave it where it be. :grin:

#49 Scott in Bellingham

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:26 PM

will this be a " one off " or do you plan on building and selling more?

#50 Numbchux

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 02:31 PM

as you can see, he kind of took the spots where the cable clutch bracket would have gone. you might still be able to make a bracket work but would have to be made

adding a hydro isn't the end of the world. but sorry i didn't think about it more when i talked to him originally.

but yeah bill if you leave that other hole it leaves it open for guys wanting to run cable clutch assuming a bracket could be built, on our side of coarse.

but remember also, it's one more thing he has to map out, drill and tap. it's just more work for him. he's done so so much, i'm willing to work with what he gives us. i mean really you can only ask so much


Yep, but a bracket on the side of the trans to mount the cable to is easy. WAY easier than trying to retrofit a hydraulic clutch pedal assembly into an EA81.


If it complicates the design too much, that's fine. we'll make do if/when we get going. But, it would make it more easily applicable into more cars.




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