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subaru for desert racing??


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23 replies to this topic

#1 pickstock

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 01:31 AM

Ok guys if your on some of the other subaru forums you might have seen what im planning to do. but i thought id post here cause there seems to be a lot more racers here....

ok my plan is to build a desert racing car. To run things like the finke in aus, australian safari and on the same principals of dakar and Baja but i doubt ill ever get to run them.
my car of choice is a subaru forester.

ive made a list of what i want to do and fits in with the rules for my class, production 4WD which limits it a bit but strangly allows what i really want to do. what do you guys think i should do??

#2 SuBrat84

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 10:42 AM

I think you should start by letting us know what rules and limits you are bound by. Also, what your intentions are. A general idea of what kind of funding you have to work with (e.g. "On the cheap" or "Money is not a concern" or somewhere in between..) And then, be open to any suggestions that arise.

#3 pickstock

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 01:07 AM

Touche............
currently my funding is pretty limited, but the car im looking at is only $500 or so, being an import and illegal for registraiton. however i am looking at a lot of sponsorship and currently have interest from an all Subaru wreckers, my car club, my dads Fabrication shop, a mates electric engineering shop basically i can do anything as long as i dont have to pay :grin: Im going to be looking into the biggest Subaru shop in the state and they might like to give me some money but who knows........

The rules
im lookign at running production class which limits things a bit but to me it seems quite open.
engine: crank, rods and block must be standard, intercooler (if turboed) must be standard head is free save it has the same number of valves.
gear box must be the same housing but internals are free material but must be of a ratio that came from the manufacturer
chassis can be mildly modified
suspension allows for an extra shocker per wheel, springs are free save they must be the same type.

i think this is about it but if youve got any questions put them up and ill go though the rules and see if its allowed

#4 renob123

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 10:33 AM

Against what kind of cars would you be competing? What are their power/modification levels? Is ground clearance or approach/departure angle a concern? It's hard to recommend anything until we know more. In the meantime, you could look into something like this in the front:

Posted Image

Jacob

#5 pickstock

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 05:52 PM

the winner this year was a mitsubishi V6 pajaro, second was a triton.
the power of them isnt that high, maybe a bit more torque. its the speed that the forester can wind out thats going to be where it comes into its own. they have to play by the same rules as me so thats probably as far as they can go
approch and departure wont be an issue but i am thinking a slight lift would be advisable, front end there looks very good, better than what i was thinking.

#6 renob123

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 06:09 PM

the winner this year was a mitsubishi V6 pajaro, second was a triton.
the power of them isnt that high, maybe a bit more torque. its the speed that the forester can wind out thats going to be where it comes into its own. they have to play by the same rules as me so thats probably as far as they can go
approch and departure wont be an issue but i am thinking a slight lift would be advisable, front end there looks very good, better than what i was thinking.


What speeds do you plan to hit? I'm just trying to see where this sport is between, say rock crawling and WRC. I'm not aware of any area in your continent that's like Dakar:)

Does your Forester come with a turbo? If not, it may be worthwhile to see if you can swap one in due to some Foresters coming with a turbo from the factory.

Jacob

#7 pickstock

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 07:32 PM

never seen a picture of Australia then??
its a lot like dakar or baja

http://www.australia...bsite/home.html
http://www.finkedesertrace.com.au/
they are the two biggest event i plan to run, not this year though with the safari only 50 something days to build a car.

looking at getting up to around 200km/h so i think thats about 160miles??
the car im looking at isnt a turbo i dont think, however i will be allowed to swap it to the turbo motor if i want but im currently unsure.

#8 brumbyrunner

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 08:04 AM

Show me an offroad race in Australia that has terrain that exemplifies either Dakar or Baja.

Sorry pickstock but you're not going to achieve anywhere near 200km/h with 30" tyres on a naturally aspirated Subie motor.

#9 renob123

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 10:33 AM

never seen a picture of Australia then??
its a lot like dakar or baja

http://www.australia...bsite/home.html
http://www.finkedesertrace.com.au/
they are the two biggest event i plan to run, not this year though with the safari only 50 something days to build a car.

looking at getting up to around 200km/h so i think thats about 160miles??
the car im looking at isnt a turbo i dont think, however i will be allowed to swap it to the turbo motor if i want but im currently unsure.


Heh, yeah. I'm basing my knowledge on a Kylie Minogue video and a TV show that had this rock in it:

Posted Image

What's your racing background? 200kph on dirt is very fast.

Jacob

#10 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 03:15 PM

looking at getting up to around 200km/h so i think thats about 160miles??


100km/h is roughly 60mph so 200km/h will be about 120mph.
That is WAY fast on dirt, not even 400k rally cars get going that fast.
Average speed of a rally car is 80mph, maxing out at 100mph or so on straight
stretches.
Your target number should be about 120-160km/h for a top speed.
An N/A Subaru should be able to reach that speed fairly easily on 30" tires, but
a turbo would get you there quicker.

Twitch

#11 pickstock

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 10:28 PM

NA subaru EJ25 will do the speeds.
the average speed for a rally car in australia is about 80KM an hour BUT(!!) this is beacue our rules stipulate this is maximum average speed any road used for rallying is allowed. ive been in events where the've shut the stage down cause somone up fornt average 81km/h. off roading where its simply flatten it and hold on (in a lot of places) is a lot quicker than rally. i have some mates running jimcos, where i got my love of offroad racing, that easily push 200 but the prodution teams leave it at about 180.
experience wise i like to keep most of it a secret so not to say that much, i was 3rd place in CAMS rising star at the age of 14 when i was running out at our local offroad track with my brother, and this was the first time CAMS had considered an off road based person a rising star. at that same track i have won events outright in vehicles rather unequiped to do so. my prospective navigaters are all state champion rally drivers and navigators, one being a national place holder in many events back in the day.

im pretty aure im qualified

#12 renob123

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 10:46 PM

NA subaru EJ25 will do the speeds.
the average speed for a rally car in australia is about 80KM an hour BUT(!!) this is beacue our rules stipulate this is maximum average speed any road used for rallying is allowed. ive been in events where the've shut the stage down cause somone up fornt average 81km/h. off roading where its simply flatten it and hold on (in a lot of places) is a lot quicker than rally. i have some mates running jimcos, where i got my love of offroad racing, that easily push 200 but the prodution teams leave it at about 180.
experience wise i like to keep most of it a secret so not to say that much, i was 3rd place in CAMS rising star at the age of 14 when i was running out at our local offroad track with my brother, and this was the first time CAMS had considered an off road based person a rising star. at that same track i have won events outright in vehicles rather unequiped to do so. my prospective navigaters are all state champion rally drivers and navigators, one being a national place holder in many events back in the day.

im pretty aure im qualified


That's cool. I just wanted to know so I wouldn't send an amateur to his death. What year is the car? You should get a cage and better suspension at least. The cage you can do yourself. Depending on the year, you may be able to hit some decent speeds.

They limit the average speed in really here too, but the cars can hit that speed very quickly.

Jacob

#13 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 10:46 PM

NA subaru EJ25 will do the speeds.
the average speed for a rally car in australia is about 80KM an hour BUT(!!) this is beacue our rules stipulate this is maximum average speed any road used for rallying is allowed. ive been in events where the've shut the stage down cause somone up fornt average 81km/h. off roading where its simply flatten it and hold on (in a lot of places) is a lot quicker than rally. i have some mates running jimcos, where i got my love of offroad racing, that easily push 200 but the prodution teams leave it at about 180.
experience wise i like to keep most of it a secret so not to say that much, i was 3rd place in CAMS rising star at the age of 14 when i was running out at our local offroad track with my brother, and this was the first time CAMS had considered an off road based person a rising star. at that same track i have won events outright in vehicles rather unequiped to do so. my prospective navigaters are all state champion rally drivers and navigators, one being a national place holder in many events back in the day.

im pretty aure im qualified


Ok, if you're comparing a Subaru to a Jimco Buggy, that's like comparing
grapefruit to grapes.
To get any Subaru up to that point you're gonna have to do some MAJOR
upgrading to the suspension.
Dakar requires some awesome suspension travel, and you're not going to
get that out of stock Forester struts, even though they are some of the
longest travel struts made by Subaru.

Ok, Rally cars made to do well over 160 KM/H over jumps and bumps and the
like, only do 120-160 KM/H.
Foresters were not built to do those kind of speeds.
If you push one to that extent without upgrading anything you WILL have a
catastrophic failure.

Twitch

#14 pickstock

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 10:58 PM

i have no fear of dieing........
cage is a must, im not making that myself though, going to one of the best in the country.
the cars do hit the speed fast but were talking about half an hour to reach speed before putting on the brakes for a corner or check point.

i wasnt really comparing jimcos to subarus, but the speed is about the same when hitting 200KH. :grin:
the rally cars i leanrt to drive in would clock out at 160 and it took about 15 seconds to wind it that high, but still........
suspension is going to be majorly redefined, HD springs, two shockers, one standard one running at 15 degrees from the vertical to the centre line of the car.

Edited by pickstock, 28 July 2010 - 11:01 PM.


#15 pickstock

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 11:08 PM

BTW the car is a 99-2000 australian model i belive i am yet to buy it

#16 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 11:15 PM

Ok, wasn't sure how you were approaching this.
You'll definitely have to beef up the strut mounts as well as everything
suspension related.
You'll need a caged engine as well as cabin, blah blah blah, I'm sure you're
gonna do just fine.

And a Forester would be the best choice as it is based on the Impreza and has
a multitude of parts available.
Plus the greater clearance, tauter suspension, and lighter weight than the Outback just add icing to the cake.

Twitch

#17 pickstock

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 11:26 PM

the plan is to approach this from the 'right' way.
i didnt think about caging the engine, but it seems right.

#18 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 11:43 PM

the plan is to approach this from the 'right' way.
i didnt think about caging the engine, but it seems right.


Yeah, if you wreck you don't want a blazing hot 100+ pound hunk of metal flying
into the cabin with you.
It also increases the stiffness of the front end, allowing you to deal more
punishment to it.
If you incorporate it into your suspension mounts then you'll have a very strong,
very durable offroad car.

Twitch

#19 pickstock

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 12:30 AM

yeah ill look into that idea, it would strengthen it up a lot.

i like the idea of running the EJ25, bigger radiator, oil cooler, dry sump if i can be bothered, 4 shockers majorly uprated suspension, building the cage to incorperate the engine adn suspension mounts, tire rack in the rear, custom fuel tank

#20 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 10:24 AM

yeah ill look into that idea, it would strengthen it up a lot.

i like the idea of running the EJ25, bigger radiator, oil cooler, dry sump if i can be bothered, 4 shockers majorly uprated suspension, building the cage to incorperate the engine adn suspension mounts, tire rack in the rear, custom fuel tank


Sounds like you're working up to a really good car :)
And I think you have a a couple good Subaru builders down there to fab stuff
up for you ;)

One thing that you may want to look into that I don't think has been mentioned, is if you go with the stock struts on the front end, you could see about getting some king springs or scorpion springs for them.
Those should give you about an inch to inch and a half to work with.

Twitch

#21 renob123

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 10:32 AM

yeah ill look into that idea, it would strengthen it up a lot.

i like the idea of running the EJ25, bigger radiator, oil cooler, dry sump if i can be bothered, 4 shockers majorly uprated suspension, building the cage to incorperate the engine adn suspension mounts, tire rack in the rear, custom fuel tank


I'd do suspension and brakes as well as I could for this sort of thing. Initially I was thinking about engine/transmission options for you, but I think that sort of thing could wait. In fact, just about everything else could wait. If you hit top speed after 15 minutes, make one turn, then you hit a checkpoint, then I don't imagine there will be that much wear on the engine/transmission. You'll get rattled to pieces, though:banana:

Jacob

#22 pickstock

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 06:35 PM

ive worked out i cant go with the stock struts.
ill use the stock mounting points with some custom struts i think, as well as the auxillery. thats the first option. im thinking of using the 5EAT in it and putting the electronic diff lock mod, or manuel with EA82 ratios.

now i just need to get the money........
got the car sorted and can get the bits but the money for entry is the hard part :mad:

#23 pickstock

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 06:04 AM

the plan has been put on hiatus after long talks with my laywer about sponsorship. basically im not going to put the 50 grand it needs in to build and then hope that all of the sponsors who have said they will fund us basically walk away. The bank account is still open adn if i fall across parts ill collect them, but until somone puts there money where their mouth is this isnt going ahead.
sadly my next tour wont be a subaru, but the one after that might =)

#24 pickstock

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 04:45 PM

ok a little update

This MIGHT be going ahead again. Some slight changed to the original plan but still, racings racing right?

im looking at an ADM or JDM early forester, 1997 spec or so, it will be kept daily driven so mods cant be too rude. Either running a franken motor(possibly first built in australia) or the EZ30 for power but also reliablilty

A strut lift with custon springs and fox bypass shocks or somthing of the sort.




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