Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Cranks, no start, injectors tuned, timing belt


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Jim Simmons

Jim Simmons

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • Eureka Springs

Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:47 AM

I hate it when the new guy asks for help but has not searched for the answer, so I did search first.
I have a 2005 Legacy 2.5 GT. It has 95K miles so I decided to change the timing belt and have the injectors tuned up by RC Engineering. After putting it all together, no start. On the off chance that I put the belt on wrong, I took the covers off and verified that with the crank key down and the reluctor tooth with the mark at the top, all four cams line up with the notches and the marks between cams are looking at each other.

I've gone over the engine looking for loose connectors and unconnected ones. I've primed the injectors by turning the key on but not starting several times to pump out the air.

The engine seems to not be getting fuel but the fuel pump runs. No codes, of course, the engine has not started. It cranks but no start. Bear in mind it ran fine before this work. What am I missing?

#2 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,742 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:52 AM

Did you happen to unplug the cam or crank angle sensor while you were doing this work? Or hit it with a hammer or wrench by accident?
What else did you change? Did you remove the cam sprockets for any reason?

#3 Jim Simmons

Jim Simmons

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • Eureka Springs

Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:27 PM

Did you happen to unplug the cam or crank angle sensor while you were doing this work? Or hit it with a hammer or wrench by accident?
What else did you change? Did you remove the cam sprockets for any reason?

Cam sprockets were not removed, only the cover on the left side intake cam to assist in rotating with a 10mm Hex driver. I did unplug the cam sensor while messing with the injectors. I got a good solid snap when I connected it.

#4 Jim Simmons

Jim Simmons

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • Eureka Springs

Posted 18 August 2010 - 12:55 PM

...unplug the cam or crank angle sensor while you were doing this work...

I went out to the shop and checked the cam sensor. I did not remove the plug. Too hard to get to without unbolting the grounds. I'm sure about clicking the connectors because I never leave them until I hear it click. And the hammer comment...please.:eek:

#5 Cougar

Cougar

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 6,340 posts
  • Anchorage

Posted 18 August 2010 - 05:15 PM

Check for spark if you haven't done that already. If that is ok then spray some starter fluid into the intake and see if that gets the engine running for a bit. If that works then you have a fuel delivery problem. If the fluid doesn't work then you need to check the T-belts.

#6 Jim Simmons

Jim Simmons

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • Eureka Springs

Posted 18 August 2010 - 06:26 PM

Check for spark if you haven't done that already. If that is ok then spray some starter fluid into the intake and see if that gets the engine running for a bit. If that works then you have a fuel delivery problem. If the fluid doesn't work then you need to check the T-belts.

A shot of ether sounds like a good idea. I usually have some around for my neighbor's mowers, but I'm out, so I'll have to make a run to town tomorrow. As far as the belts go, I don't think I can do more than what I've said in the first post.

#7 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,742 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:31 PM

Well I've seen stranger things happen. :lol:

Fuel, Spark, Compression. Pull the spark plugs and crank it (unplug the coil to prevent arcing from igniting fuel vapor). If you get fuel out of the spark plug holes, check for spark. If you got fuel and spark, check compression.

#8 bstone

bstone

    Certified Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 804 posts
  • Falls Village, CT

Posted 19 August 2010 - 02:36 AM

I had the same problem last night and today. Turned out blown HGs.

#9 Jim Simmons

Jim Simmons

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • Eureka Springs

Posted 19 August 2010 - 09:42 AM

And the hammer comment...please.]

Well I've seen stranger things happen. :lol:

And so have I! :grin:

Fuel, Spark, Compression. Pull the spark plugs and crank it (unplug the coil to prevent arcing from igniting fuel vapor). If you get fuel out of the spark plug holes, check for spark. If you got fuel and spark, check compression.

I'm familiar with the drill but I've got it in my mind that I drove onto the lift and it was running great. It will wait until tomorrow. I have a community service job in town today.

Edited by Jim Simmons, 19 August 2010 - 09:49 AM.


#10 Jim Simmons

Jim Simmons

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • Eureka Springs

Posted 20 August 2010 - 11:53 AM

Well...I pulled #2 injector and it popped out; plenty of fuel pressure. I put the injector back in and checked for injector sounds while cranking; they were there. I pulled a coil and checked for spark; had spark. So, y'all know what that leaves. It ain't gonna run with 10 lbs. compression. This suggests that I messed up the timing belt install. After the first start try I checked everything as I said in my first post. This is not the first timing belt I've installed on one of these 4-cammers, but I guess there is more to learn. I'll check back in a few days with an update. Thanks for the suggestions they are always appreciated as I tend to stand too close to the problem.

#11 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,742 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 20 August 2010 - 12:01 PM

Well...I pulled #2 injector and it popped out; plenty of fuel pressure. I put the injector back in and checked for injector sounds while cranking; they were there. I pulled a coil and checked for spark; had spark. So, y'all know what that leaves. It ain't gonna run with 10 lbs. compression. This suggests that I messed up the timing belt install. After the first start try I checked everything as I said in my first post. This is not the first timing belt I've installed on one of these 4-cammers, but I guess there is more to learn. I'll check back in a few days with an update. Thanks for the suggestions they are always appreciated as I tend to stand too close to the problem.


You just have to turn it faster so the compression doesn't have enough time to leak out! :grin:

Glad you found the root cause. Even if you have a service manual take a look at some of the threads around here with info for timing these beasts, there are plenty. Lots of people seem to mess that up so don't take it too hard. The fact you got any compression means the valves are probably OK, just need to get them in the right place at the right time. Good luck.

#12 OB99W

OB99W

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 3,315 posts
  • Ithaca

Posted 20 August 2010 - 12:25 PM

Just to be sure:
http://endwrench.com/pdf/engine/FtTimingBeltReplaceF00.pdf

#13 Subalicious

Subalicious

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • Milton-Freewater

Posted 20 August 2010 - 12:34 PM

Bummer. Time to replace the valves. Not sure if your going by book but chiltons is full of poo! As most of you know you aline your keyways to bolts or you will bend your valves over and over. This has happened to me many times:mad:

#14 Jim Simmons

Jim Simmons

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • Eureka Springs

Posted 09 September 2010 - 10:47 AM

OK, it has been awhile, but I drove the the car over a hundred miles yesterday and all is well...better than well, actually because while I had the car down I sent the injectors off to be tuned up.

What I learned about changing belts on a quad cam Subaru, even though I had done this before:
1. Don't pay attention to the paint marks on the sprockets.
2. Before starting the job roll the engine over so that the two (2) scribe marks on each sprocket are pointed to each other, and the crank sprocket has its key way at the 6 o'clock position. There should be a mark on this sprocket at the top that aligns with a mark on the block at this time.
3. Now you can remove the idler rollers. The cams on the right side (passenger side in the USA) will just sit there as they are unloaded. The cams on the other side will more than likely spin suddenly, as they are loaded.
4. I recommend replacing all of the idler rollers if the engine has any where near 100,000 miles on it. Mine has 95,000 miles. The manual says replace them if you can hear them when you spin them. The kit I ordered came with the tensioner, even though the description said it didn't.
5. If your engine is a turbo with a 5 speed, the smallest roller included in after market roller kits will be wrong. Rockauto.com gave me a credit for $40, the correct roller from the dealer was $83 and I had to drive a hundred miles to get it.
6. After you get the belt in, pay attention to the scribe marks on the cam sprockets! The double marks must be pointed directly at each other. The right side marks are difficult to see without a mirror if the engine is in the car.
It is easy to be off a tooth on the right side.
7. When everything looks well, pull the pin on the tensioner, and just for ducks, check the torque on all of the rollers you replaced.
8. I recommend cranking the engine two revolutions by hand, this makes every cam rotate once. By this time the belt should be running straight on all of the pulleys and sprockets.
9. Put the rest of the engine together (preferably with a manual) and the
engine should fire up in the normal manner.

The mistake I made that caused me to start this thread was that I was concentrating on the paint marks on the sprockets, not the scribe marks. I had installed the belt with the left side intake cam 180° off. I was fortunate that I didn't break anything.

Thanks for holding my hand while I worked through my problem. I did take pictures, but I can't find my camera (go figure).

#15 rainman19154

rainman19154

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 206 posts
  • Philadelphia

Posted 09 September 2010 - 09:06 PM

what a story... am glad you worked it out and a good inspiration for all us amateurs to stick with projects that give us a fight.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users