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So...Am I the first to have a Frankenmotor in his Brat?


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101 replies to this topic

#26 84gl

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 05:35 PM

EM is in the works. I just can't justify buying it until I have a better place to live.

On the observation front, I've noticed that with no pitch stopper, the transmission and linkage moves back under acceleration. When this happens, the 4WD lever moves up a bit. It almost seems like enough to accidentally pop it into 4WD mode one day. STI mounts don't seem like enough to keep this thing put anymore:banana:

Jacob


I know I keep bending the antipitch bar that mounts to the top of the bell housing

By the way I am already running megasquirt the only thing limiting me is the heads

Edited by 84gl, 26 August 2010 - 05:39 PM.


#27 renob123

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 05:47 PM

I know I keep bending the antipitch bar that mounts to the top of the bell housing

By the way I am already running megasquirt the only thing limiting me is the heads


That's good to know about the MS. I'm sure I'll be sending you some questions about your setup.

I don't consider my stock Phase I EJ22 heads to be limiting me at all. I don't care about peak HP with this car. I care about area under the curve. If my heads fall on their face at 5500RPM, then when I shift, I'll be back on power. If I need to stay in that gear a little longer on a straightaway, I have until 6200RPM before I should shift.

All assuming I don't wrap this thing around a tree or grenade the transmission without a backup.

Jacob

#28 84gl

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:16 PM

That's good to know about the MS. I'm sure I'll be sending you some questions about your setup.

I don't consider my stock Phase I EJ22 heads to be limiting me at all. I don't care about peak HP with this car. I care about area under the curve. If my heads fall on their face at 5500RPM, then when I shift, I'll be back on power. If I need to stay in that gear a little longer on a straightaway, I have until 6200RPM before I should shift.

All assuming I don't wrap this thing around a tree or grenade the transmission without a backup.

Jacob


I'm RUNNING AN EA81 WITH SPFI PISTONS PORTED BIG VALVE HEADS WITH OVER SIZED VALVES 2.02-1.94 A DELTA 240 CAM PORTED SPFI INTAKE AND AND A BORED OUT SPFI THROTTLE BODY WITH A NISSAN TRUCK VG30 INJECTOR I'M JUST SAYING I HAVE THE SAME TRACTION PROBLEMS HEADS ARE WHATS HOLDING BE BACK IN THE POWER DEPT. THEY DON'T FLOW GOOD ENIF TO MAKE ANYMORE POWER SO, I'VE BEEN HUNTING FOR TRACTION INSTEAD SO, I CAN PUT WHAT POWER I HAVE TO THE GROUND. I HAVE FOUND OUT THAT THE EA81T HAS SLIGHTLY BIGGER RADIUS RODS AND SWAY BAR THAT MAY HELP TOO

#29 renob123

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:21 PM

I'm RUNNING AN EA81 WITH SPFI PISTONS PORTED BIG VALVE HEADS WITH OVER SIZED VALVES 2.02-1.94 A DELTA 240 CAM PORTED SPFI INTAKE AND AND A BORED OUT SPFI THROTTLE BODY WITH A NISSAN TRUCK VG30 INJECTOR I'M JUST SAYING I HAVE THE SAME TRACTION PROBLEMS HEADS ARE WHATS HOLDING BE BACK IN THE POWER DEPT. THEY DON'T FLOW GOOD ENIF TO MAKE ANYMORE POWER SO, I'VE BEEN HUNTING FOR TRACTION INSTEAD SO, I CAN PUT WHAT POWER I HAVE TO THE GROUND. I HAVE FOUND OUT THAT THE EA81T HAS SLIGHTLY BIGGER RADIUS RODS AND SWAY BAR THAT MAY HELP TOO


No need to yell. I'm just saying my heads seem to work for what I want:confused:

Jacob

#30 84gl

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:28 PM

Sorry forgot the caps was on.

#31 Subruise

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 08:14 PM

DUDE, ITS A FRANKENMOTOR!!!! POWER IS NOT T HE ISSUE!! EVEN IF YOUR HOPPED UP EA81 THINGY HOOKED UP W/ YOUR MODS HIS MOTOR WILL BREAK IT!!!!

just sayin



RV

#32 renob123

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 09:21 PM

DUDE, ITS A FRANKENMOTOR!!!! POWER IS NOT T HE ISSUE!! EVEN IF YOUR HOPPED UP EA81 THINGY HOOKED UP W/ YOUR MODS HIS MOTOR WILL BREAK IT!!!!

just sayin



RV


His post sounds ok if you ignore the caps. Let's assume he wasn't being a d-bag for now, Rob:)

I was going to follow that upgrade route, but the Fankenmotor is great for the $/HP thing. I'd say it's unbeatable in the $/torque category. The Delta torque cams are cheap for how they improve the powerband. If I ever pull the motor in my fast car, they're definitely going in that one too.

84GL: Have you thought of lowering the front or lifting the rear more? It would be counter to your other mods, but that's what I'm looking at for me.

Jacob

#33 84gl

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 10:25 PM

Sorry Again about the caps lock. Yes I did raise the rear end by cranking up the tourshin bar but that only helped a little and increased the steering rake I've been trying to figure this out for a while now knowing that your frankin motor makes a crap ton more power than my built ea81 your take off handling must be alot worst mine still walks around alittle on take off but its not to bad now I've changed the struts,ball joints,tie rods,radius rods and all the bushings I could find. What tires and wheels are you running stock? I'm running 14in pugs with cooper cobra tires in 195/65/14 for now. but on a wet road I still have to use 4wd to keep it from spinning you do have one advantage over mine to (other than power) an ej weights 75-80 pounds more than mine.

Since you said your trans is on is way out way not put a shadow locker in the next one thats what I'm running in my 5spd D/R in my brat it was the best thing I've done for it so far for traction anyway.

Also I've been thinking about this for awhile making anther brace for the engine and trans and mounting it to the rear of the trans. I think it might fix the lifting up or raising of the engine and trans daring take off I think that would keep it from bending the antipitch bar all the time and could also keep the front end down alittle more too

Edited by 84gl, 26 August 2010 - 10:37 PM.


#34 renob123

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 10:40 PM

Sorry Again about the caps lock. Yes I did raise the rear end by cranking up the tourshin bar but that only helped a little and increased the steering rake I've been trying to figure this out for a while now knowing that your frankin motor makes a crap ton more power than my built ea81 your take off handling must be alot worst mine still walks around alittle on take off but its not to bad now I've changed the struts,ball joints,tie rods,radius rods and all the bushings I could find. What tires and wheels are you running stock? I'm running 14in pugs with cooper cobra tires in 195/65/14 for now. but on a wet road I still have to use 4wd to keep it from spinning

Since you said your trans is on is way out way not put a shadow locker in the next one thats what I'm running in my 5spd D/R in my brat it was the best thing I've done for it so far for traction anyway.


Shadow locker? Is that like a Phantom Grip? I'm running low profile 15s. They're snow tires, but they've been fine for how little I paid for them. Like I said before, I hope the wheel spin helps preserve the transmission.

Jacob

#35 84gl

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:52 PM

Phantom Grip is the same thing different brand. Oh I didn't know you wanted wheel spin must have missed that. In that case stay away form the locker But, if I were you I would check into the ea81t front end stuff I told you about when I get the time I'm going to swap my sway bar and radius rods out for them If they will fit my brat there on an 84 gl turbo wagon right now

#36 renob123

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 10:00 AM

I forgot to mention that the tires are wide. They're probably 2" wider than stock.

I'm not after wheelspin, I'm just saying that that will prolong the life of the transmission. For your Shadow Locker, where did you get it? I did a search and didn't find anything. Also, what car did you say you had when you ordered it? I'm betting if I ask for one for a Loyale, they'll say they don't have anything that fits.

Jacob

#37 84gl

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 10:17 AM

I ordered it from New Zeland (bought it off Ebay NZ). 5 years ago Shadow lock is the brand name the said It was a closeout item then its for a ea82 4wd rx turbo Sedan. But I have heard bad things about them here on the board and a friend of mine Will or WJM use to run one in his rx that he ran solo2 with he also blow 2 or 3 trannys up with them in it due to the lsd coming apart and he was also running 200-225 hp with an ea82t

#38 Subruise

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 12:10 PM

His post sounds ok if you ignore the caps. Let's assume he wasn't being a d-bag for now, Rob:)

I was going to follow that upgrade route, but the Fankenmotor is great for the $/HP thing. I'd say it's unbeatable in the $/torque category. The Delta torque cams are cheap for how they improve the powerband. If I ever pull the motor in my fast car, they're definitely going in that one too.

84GL: Have you thought of lowering the front or lifting the rear more? It would be counter to your other mods, but that's what I'm looking at for me.

Jacob



oh, dont get me wrong, i was just trying to be comedic/sarcastic. there was no d-baggery percieved.:) carry on

RV

#39 ballitch

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 10:46 PM

I only have a stock EJ22 in mine, but the way I took care of wheels spin is 5 lug swap and wrx rims and tires. You WILL break your tranny. My EA82 trans. lasted about 3 years before it walked out the door screaming.

I need to keep up with this site more often, frankenmotor brat within 30 miles of me and I didnt even know it.....shame.


~Josh~

#40 Gloyale

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 11:22 AM

I think it has to do withe the rear suspension more than the front Myself my brat was very bad for picking the front end up when I first put the motor in I rebuilt the front end replacing every thing and used RX springs on the front struts it helped alittle but not much adding ea82 rear struts may fix the front end lift I haven't tried it yet but I am going too


I was plagued by similar "lift and shift" problems during takoffs in my EJ18'd 84 wagon.

I also had torsion bars that kept saggin, so i'd reclock another notch, only to have them sag more next time I went Wheelin.

So I went ahead and added EA82 coilovers to the rear. Stood the rump roast in the air like a cat in heat. De-clocked the torsions a notch. Okay, better, stiff but not ungodly.

Well the added side benefit I found is that the front end stays planted now on takeoffs. The stiff rear end keeps the front from being able to lift and keeps more weight on the front tires to limit spin.

Turns out there was a reason for Fuji to make them so stinkbug from the factory.......who'd a thunk it?

#41 84gl

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 02:33 PM

I was plagued by similar "lift and shift" problems during takoffs in my EJ18'd 84 wagon.

I also had torsion bars that kept saggin, so i'd reclock another notch, only to have them sag more next time I went Wheelin.

So I went ahead and added EA82 coilovers to the rear. Stood the rump roast in the air like a cat in heat. De-clocked the torsions a notch. Okay, better, stiff but not ungodly.

Well the added side benefit I found is that the front end stays planted now on takeoffs. The stiff rear end keeps the front from being able to lift and keeps more weight on the front tires to limit spin.

Turns out there was a reason for Fuji to make them so stinkbug from the factory.......who'd a thunk it?



Thanks Gloyale I still haven't swaped in the ea82 struts but Its good to know it will work by the way what struts did you use RX,4wd,2wd,XT,85-86 adjustable 4wd honada springs?

#42 Gloyale

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 07:46 PM

Thanks Gloyale I still haven't swaped in the ea82 struts but Its good to know it will work by the way what struts did you use RX,4wd,2wd,XT,85-86 adjustable 4wd honada springs?


I think 88 non-adjustable 4wd wagon springs

#43 renob123

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 11:08 AM

I only have a stock EJ22 in mine, but the way I took care of wheels spin is 5 lug swap and wrx rims and tires. You WILL break your tranny. My EA82 trans. lasted about 3 years before it walked out the door screaming.

I need to keep up with this site more often, frankenmotor brat within 30 miles of me and I didnt even know it.....shame.


~Josh~


Just quit calling me out on NABISCO, and we can meet up:grin: I'd like to see your swap as well. Mine looks like any other EJ swap. It just says "EJ25" on the block. If I get 3 years out of this transmission, then I'll be happy.

I was plagued by similar "lift and shift" problems during takoffs in my EJ18'd 84 wagon.

I also had torsion bars that kept saggin, so i'd reclock another notch, only to have them sag more next time I went Wheelin.

So I went ahead and added EA82 coilovers to the rear. Stood the rump roast in the air like a cat in heat. De-clocked the torsions a notch. Okay, better, stiff but not ungodly.

Well the added side benefit I found is that the front end stays planted now on takeoffs. The stiff rear end keeps the front from being able to lift and keeps more weight on the front tires to limit spin.

Turns out there was a reason for Fuji to make them so stinkbug from the factory.......who'd a thunk it?


This is the route I'm considering as well. I'd like to get some adjustable stiffness in the rear so I can get the ride height/stiffness that I like without buying a bunch of things over and over again until I find the one I like. I considered the Miata or EA82 coilovers and a few other things I'm not sure would work.

It's good to know that the stiffness did help, though.

Jacob

#44 vagen

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 08:46 PM

here's a probably pointless or useless question. would the hunting idle issue still be there with stock cams. I'm drooling over the power numbers because I want this kind of power in my well sorted (finally) RX chassis.

#45 renob123

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 08:50 PM

here's a probably pointless or useless question. would the hunting idle issue still be there with stock cams. I'm drooling over the power numbers because I want this kind of power in my well sorted (finally) RX chassis.


It's hard to say. Idle issues are rare with these cams, so it could be unrelated. It's not a problem how it is, though. I'd say it's worth it.

Jacob

#46 vagen

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 09:28 PM

I have a 2.2 legacy as a donor and I'm on the hunt for a 2.5 shortblock.

#47 renob123

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 11:17 AM

I have a 2.2 legacy as a donor and I'm on the hunt for a 2.5 shortblock.


Keep in mind that the frankenmotor heads don't flow as well as the 2.5 heads. If it's possible to drop the 2.5 in as a whole, it would probably give you more power. The frankenmotor worked for me (at least for 300 miles so far) because I already had the 2.2 wiring, manifold, etc in there. You, on the other hand, aren't as invested in the 2.2 heads/wiring/etc. I just don't want you to go down the wrong path.

Jacob

#48 eulogious

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 12:05 PM

Keep in mind that the frankenmotor heads don't flow as well as the 2.5 heads. If it's possible to drop the 2.5 in as a whole, it would probably give you more power. The frankenmotor worked for me (at least for 300 miles so far) because I already had the 2.2 wiring, manifold, etc in there. You, on the other hand, aren't as invested in the 2.2 heads/wiring/etc. I just don't want you to go down the wrong path.

Jacob


Wouldn't it also allow you to stay with ODBI instead of having to wire in all the other junk to get ODBII to work for the whole 2.5? Weren't all 2.5's, or most anyways, ODBII?

To me the frankenmotor not only puts out great power right off idle, but also allows you to keep with the more simpler ODBI setup. I could be off on that, but that's what it seems like to me, so please correct me if I am wrong :D I would much rather have the simpler setup installed because it will allow me to "hack" it more without the addition more sensors and other stuff that will just complicate everything. To me that is one of the main reason why I like my older soob is because it's simple, so I would like to keep it that way as much as possible :grin:

#49 renob123

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 12:11 PM

Wouldn't it also allow you to stay with ODBI instead of having to wire in all the other junk to get ODBII to work for the whole 2.5? Weren't all 2.5's, or most anyways, ODBII?

To me the frankenmotor not only puts out great power right off idle, but also allows you to keep with the more simpler ODBI setup. I could be off on that, but that's what it seems like to me, so please correct me if I am wrong :D I would much rather have the simpler setup installed because it will allow me to "hack" it more without the addition more sensors and other stuff that will just complicate everything. To me that is one of the main reason why I like my older soob is because it's simple, so I would like to keep it that way as much as possible :grin:


Agreed. I mentioned that wiring was part of why I went with the frankenmotor. Vagen is in a much earlier stage of his EJ swap, and I'm just trying to emphasize that the frankenmotor doesn't make sense for everyone all the time. It worked for me (for 300 miles so far) because I had the 2.2 stuff already in there.

Jacob

#50 eulogious

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 12:20 PM

Fair enough :)

I truthfully had never thought of that before, so that's why I mentioned it, when I saw what you wrote. I thought that it was a great idea to be able to use the bigger block for more power, but keep all the simple and reliable stuff. It's the best combo, so thanks for pointing out yet another reason to do this motor :) Even if you don't go all "crazy" with the cams, I still think that this is a good way to go. Best of both worlds.




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