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90 EJ22 4EAT injector


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14 replies to this topic

#1 notnowles

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 10:06 PM

I have some bad injectors (have not checked them individually yet) but the leak is so bad somewhere that the engine will not turn over sometimes. It tries to turn and stops. I first thought the starter was bad so I replaced it and still have the same issue. I believe the engine is locking up due to hydraulic pressre in one of the cylinders due to an injector leak.

I haven't been driving the car lately because of a bad miss and a glowing cat the last time I had it out!

Today I discovered that the engine oil is overfull and smells of gasoline, so I believe there is at least one injector that is leaking fuel into a cylinder after shut down.

I have had trouble with injectors before and have had a hard time finding the gray ones in a junk yard.

Can I use injectors from another year in this car and are they any better in the newer cars?

It seems like the gray top injectors (which is what my car has) are usually missing from parts cars which leads me to conclude they may be more problematic (?) I remember reading that the 90 and 91 had a different fuel rain from later models.

This car is a driver and not a show car so performance is not an issue, though when it's not running on all 4, it is! (Low standards here, perhaps!)

Thanks very much to anyone who can help.

#2 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 01:45 AM

There simply is not enough pressure in the lines after the engine is shut down to fill a cylinder with gasoline. Go ahead and break one of the hoses loose right after running the engine - you'll see what I mean. Pressureized liquid does not compress so while it is under pressure, it does not appreciably expand in volume once the pressure is released. At most there might be a few Oz of gasoline that would be availible to leak out of an injector. Not enough to hydrolock an engine.

That said - it does sound like you may have an injector issue if you are smelling gas in the oil and it's higher than normal.

I have seen a little higher incidence of failure with the 90/91 automatic injectors (they are still very reliable). You might just buy a full set of reman injectors from www.rockauto.com - they are around $40 to $50 each. Much cheaper than the dealer. I would not even consider replacing less than all of them at once unless it was a single injector with a failed driver coil.

GD

#3 bratman

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 02:36 AM

I replaced an injector in my 90 Legacy with an EJ22 about a year ago. I didn't know it at the time, but the o-ring supplied with the new injector (NAPA) was just a wee bit too big.

Of course, the car didn't run quite right, but I didn't know why at the time. I let it sit overnight in that condition. The end result? I filled the crankcase with gas and hydrolocked all FOUR cylinders! I pulled all four spark plugs and cranked the engine... gasoline shot out of each plug hole. It was quite a sight.

A new o-ring and a few oil changes later, and the engine ran like a champ. I did have to do the old "put a tablespoon of oil in each cylinder and let it sit overnight" trick to get her to start back up after the hydrolock, though. Apparently the, um, "gas treatment" cleared the oil between the piston rings. Smoked a like a fire breathing dragon for about half an hour but ran fine after that. And as an added bonus, I'm pretty sure I killed all of the mosquitoss in my neighborhood. :lol:

Good luck with the injectors. As I recall, NAPA had them in stock for a decent price at the time. I only needed one to get my commuter-roo back up and running, so it wasn't that expensive in the long run.

---------
1982 Brat
1991 Legacy

#4 Gloyale

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 12:52 PM

I replaced an injector in my 90 Legacy with an EJ22 about a year ago. I didn't know it at the time, but the o-ring supplied with the new injector (NAPA) was just a wee bit too big.

Of course, the car didn't run quite right, but I didn't know why at the time. I let it sit overnight in that condition. The end result? I filled the crankcase with gas and hydrolocked all FOUR cylinders! I pulled all four spark plugs and cranked the engine... gasoline shot out of each plug hole. It was quite a sight.


This doesn't sound right to me.

How can one leaking injector fill the Crankcase and all 4 cylinders sitting overnight? Not possible. IF anything it could fill one cylinder but not 4.

#5 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 01:07 PM

This doesn't sound right to me.

How can one leaking injector fill the Crankcase and all 4 cylinders sitting overnight? Not possible. IF anything it could fill one cylinder but not 4.


I agree - I'm not saying it's outside the realm of possibility if the fuel pump were running (as in the check connectors were connected and the ignition was on causing the pump to cycle - that would be one way) but here is not enough fuel in the lines and rails to do this and gasoline can't travel through the pump unless it's running. I'm just looking for an explanation - obviously if you shot fuel out of the plug holes then we are talking about a LOT of gasoline. It got there somehow but I would really like a solid explanation of how this occurs. It's been discussed before on here and I still don't see how this happens.

Gasoline doesn't flow if you break the supply and return lines loose from the injector rail..... maybe some kind of siphon effect from the return line side? Doesn't sound pluasible but..... I don't know the structure of the lines inside the tank, etc. In any case the tank is lower than the rails so I wouldn't think a siphon would be possible either unless the car was at a nose-down angle?? That I could definitely see - if the car were nosed downhill then the siphon could easily occur and cause the leaking injector to pull gas out of the tank and drip it into the engine......

I just don't get it. Never seen it either.

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder, 06 September 2010 - 01:12 PM.


#6 notnowles

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 06:49 PM

Didn't mean to imply that all cylinders are filling with gas.

I believe it's probably one.

It would only require one cylinder to cause the starter to bind, i.e., engine not turn over. It wouldn't take all 4, I don't believe.

What I do have is an overfull crankcase defiinitely containing gasoline.

I know I didn't overfill it with oil when I changed it.

My main interest is in whether or not I can use any other injectors besides the gray tops, because they are harder to find.

I know I read somewhere that at least one person had used either manual transmission injectors, or ones from a 92 to 94, possibly with the appropriate fuel rail, and had good results.

I believe the way the injectors are set up in this design (side feed), a bad o ring might result in the cylinder filling with gasoline.

In any case, thanks to all who responded for your help, and if anyone else has any suggestions, I would be interested. I will let you know what I turn up.

Thanks again!

#7 john in KY

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 07:48 PM

Pull the vacuum line on the FPR just for jollies.

#8 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 08:54 PM

To do it right you need to also swap the ECU and I think the IAC and maybe the MAF to matching components from the same year(s) you decide to use injectors from (probably 92 to 94 would be the best choice). The injectors have different flow rates and possible different driver coil's and could mess with how it runs.

GD

#9 bratman

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 12:47 AM

I agree - I'm not saying it's outside the realm of possibility if the fuel pump were running (as in the check connectors were connected and the ignition was on causing the pump to cycle - that would be one way) but here is not enough fuel in the lines and rails to do this and gasoline can't travel through the pump unless it's running. I'm just looking for an explanation - obviously if you shot fuel out of the plug holes then we are talking about a LOT of gasoline. It got there somehow but I would really like a solid explanation of how this occurs. It's been discussed before on here and I still don't see how this happens.

GD


Just to follow up here... and maybe help solve the mystery...

When I quit working on the car that night, I left the car with everything intact... fuel rails, (leaking) injector, etc. I had just shut the engine off, so the fuel line and rails were pressurized. Also, very important, the car was parked at an incline in my driveway (front of car about a foot lower than the rear), so there most certainly could have been a siphoning thing going on there.

Given the size of the gap between the injector and the rail (stupid o-ring...should have known better), and the incline of the car, I think it is quite possible that gasoline was siphoned from the tank, filled the intake manifold, and leaked into all four cylinders. NONE of the cylinders would fire the next morning (no compression), so all four pistons got a good soak! Very unnerving sound when cranked as well.

There was also plenty of gas in the crankcase. Changed the oil twice to flush it out. The engine runs like a champ now... not bad considering it has 225,000 miles on it!

Hope this info helps someone else down the line, even if it's nothing more than a "it happened to me!" moment.

#10 eulogious

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 05:37 AM

I did the swap yesterday (replaced 2 auto injectors with 2 manual injectors, including the fuel rail) and all is well :grin: Here's my thread I started asking as to what the difference is between the two injectors...

http://www.ultimates...1954#post971954

Just thought that I would let you know that it worked fine for me! Hope you got it going and fixed your problem!

#11 zacyork

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 10:32 AM

i just wanted to say that the fuel pressure regulator could bleed off after you turn your car off. which would dump the fuel down your vacuum line into your manifold then into your combustion chamber. have seen this a couple times for a no start.

#12 bratman

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 10:57 AM

I betcha that is what happened to my Subie. It makes more sense than my original theory.

I never expected all four cylinders to hydrolock like that. When I pulled all the plugs and cranked her up, it looked like my EJ22 had been replaced with the Salmon Springs Fountain from downtown Portland... gas was shooting everywhere! Quite a show it was..... :lol:

Just for the record, the inexpensive injector I bought from NAPA is still going strong. Not a bad solution if there is no junk yard nearby.

#13 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 11:02 AM

Just for the record, the inexpensive injector I bought from NAPA is still going strong. Not a bad solution if there is no junk yard nearby.


How inexpensive was it? Best price I found locally was $65 :rolleyes:

GD

#14 Gloyale

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 11:56 AM

To do it right you need to also swap the ECU and I think the IAC and maybe the MAF to matching components from the same year(s) you decide to use injectors from (probably 92 to 94 would be the best choice). The injectors have different flow rates and possible different driver coil's and could mess with how it runs.

GD


None of this is neccesary.

You can swap the whole intake (or just the rails) from 92-94. With those fuel rails, you can use any red top injector from a 2.2 or a 2.5 up to 99(phase I)

This is what I recommend to people with 90-91s that begin having repeat injector problems.

They all flow the same, and have the same resistance. There is some variation in the nozzle design, but it makes no real difference in rnning.

#15 bratman

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 09:50 PM

How inexpensive was it? Best price I found locally was $65 :rolleyes:


I got it at Beaverton Auto Parts. I don't have the receipt anymore, but the two most likely entries in my Quicken show it was either $9 or $13. I remember being surprised at how inexpensive it was... thought I would be out at least $50.

bratman




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