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#1 MSSLGECKO

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Posted 23 February 2004 - 08:38 PM

Hi everyone! I just found this forum and thought I'd ask a few quesions as I'm interested in a a setup with an older subaru (ea81) wagon with a possible lift and contemplating an engine swap.
So, the things that I'm interested in knowing is the model break-down by year as well as engines. (as far as the 1980s models) I'm especially curious what engines can be directly swaped into what cars. I'd love to hear what setups some of you guys have. I've snooped around the forum a bit and really like some of the rides you guys have got! I'm also curious what lift kits are out there for the subarus and what ones you guys recommend.

Thanks a lot!

#2 MilesFox

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 02:05 AM

the ea81 is from 80-84.

the ea82 came out in 85, and the BRAT and STD hatch wer produced 85-89

when looking for parts, any listings for 80-84, and 85-89

dont confuse ea82's with 85-94. knowing this will generalize what pars will fit what, as far as getting the RIGHT part

but some ea82 parts are swappable into ea81. some with mods some without. an ea82 motor fits nicely, with just the right combination of STOCK parts

suspensiond can be swapped over, rear disc brakes(no mod) rear trailing arm (slight mod, simple) and front lower control arm, axle, and strut, bigger brakes(welding a bracket for STOCK ea82 parts)

and with the right combinations of mods, you can have some of the most current subaru parts in the ea81 without EXTENSIVE modification

i myself have an 83 wagon, it was ea81 2wd 5spd
now it is ea82 motor, 5spd dual range trans, rear diff and trailing arms(no axle of driveshaft yet)

the front has ea82 lower control, strut/brake/tie rod, from cutting the mount off the ea82 and welding it to the ea81 crossmember

i had an ea81 and a 5spd dual range in an 86 ea82 that was automatic sedan

2wd auto to 4wd 5spd conversion

"2-door wagon"

search for "trashwagon" and check the links on my sig, for peeps on my setups

depending on your automotive skills and knowledge, you can do just about any mix and match with a soob

#3 MSSLGECKO

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 03:23 AM

What are the chances of getting an ER27 into a 80-84 wagon? :D

Thanks a lot for the reply. I like to have some guage of what I'm talking about.

#4 MilesFox

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 03:37 AM

it has been done to a brat, and i know someone who is doing the swap into a brat.

with the suspension mods i mentioned, you can go with the xt6 5 lug wheels on an ea81.

search RGUYVER for another example of 5 lug wheels in a brat with rx full time tranny

xt6 axles and turbo MT's and full time 4spd autos have 25 spline axle stubs, so you would have to go with ea82 suspension and turbo axles to use these trannies

but yes, the er27 will fit, you will want the radiator to go with(its like an ea82's but bigger hoses, and ea82 will fit in an ea81, ask tomrhere's brat

#5 MSSLGECKO

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 04:13 AM

Okay, so how much work would be involved in a setup as follows:
(Anything I should include or not consider?)

-ea81 2-door wagon (they were called Justy's back then i assume)
-er27 engine installed
-rx full time 5-speed tranny (sounds interesting, I do like the full-time 4wd)
-ea82 suspension (? I'm unclear as to what exactly that would include)

I would have to have my subie mechanic do a majority of the work as I don't have a place to work currently. Would the er27 bolt right up to the ea81? How difficult is the front suspension swap and is there any documentation that I should take a look at for any of this, namely the suspension swap?

My search for RGUYVER did not return anything. I assume that's someone's name.


Thanks.

P.S.
I really appreciate the time you're putting into helping me get a handle on this whole deal. I'm dying to have a burly little sube of my own. I keep looking at big trucks and imagining parking a lifted, powered wagon sitting bumper to bumper with them.

#6 MilesFox

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 04:28 AM

the ea81 2-door you mention is the HATCHBACK, not to be confused with the ea82 3-DOOR, the hatch came as gl and dl, they generelly had the ea71 1600 cc, but later 4wd's had ea81's
from 85 up they were called the STD (standard) and the "hatchback" listings for 85-94 is actually the ea82 3-door, 3-door coupe. in canada they are called "chaser"

if you check my site, there are parts references links on the top, it has scans from the subaru 85-94 parts guide, all models

the "2-door" that i mention is a 83 ea81 turbo wagon with hatch doors and side skins, 5spd conversion and 3 in lift. its in my website too

the front mod is easy if you can weld(i used a flux core 110 v welder) and cut off the ea82 mount in the right spot

try searching yahoo or msn, RGUYVER has a msn group, he has a hatch withthe mod i speak of, it has ea81, with ea82 spfi and a turbo, nice mixup.

he has a brat with 5lugs, but stick suspension and shortened axles. you should find a diagram of a strut adaptper fpr ea style struts to fit the xt6/legacy/impreza knuckle, with the 5 lug suspension setup

there is also a diagram of the mount mod, but i cant find it. be thorough with your search and you should find the hatch, blue with yellow caution stripe. his mod used the ea81 strut.knuckle, drilled out fopr ball joints and tuerod, wheras i used the ea82's no reaming of the holes

the er27 will bolt up to both ea81 and ea82 trannies, its just the right mix of flywheel and clutch parts, all stock bits.

the rx full time is like the dual range, but taller reduction, it has 25 splinds(all are turbo) and the diff lock(for true 4wd)

#7 MSSLGECKO

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 04:56 AM

Sounds good, thanks for getting me started with the info, I'll go snoop around the I-net some more and figure out what I'm gonna do.

What are the HP and TQ ratings of a stock er27?

Thanks.

#8 calebz

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 08:38 AM

ER27 and five lug into an EA81 car? yeah it can be done. It will take a bit of fabrication.. What miles didn't tell you was just how much custom fabrication it took rguyver to do 5 lug on a brat, or how much re-engineering it took Adam and Subarubrat to stuff an ER27 into their brats. If you are paying a mechanic to do this stuff for you, make sure he has a very good imagination, lots of fabbing skills and time.. Oh and make sure you have thousands of dollars in cash to continually throw at him.. have no illusions.. what you are asking is a custom project bordering on a monster garage type thing.

BTW ER27 is 140-145 HP

Edited for spelling typos

#9 MSSLGECKO

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 10:03 AM

So, with a "suspension swap" in this case we are literally talking about cutting out the front strut assemblies (left and right off the er27) and grafting them onto the ea81 front? This sounds a little extensive for me. I just want to run some shtuff over, man! ;) I take it there is no way around this if I want to use the er27?
I suppose I would be able to make do with a 4-cyl. setup. What are the "best" engine and tranny options/combinations out there as far as you guys are concerned. From what I've uncovered, I would venture a guess of the ea82t simply because it's the turbo model with boost-upping potential. Are there better ones out there? And as far as trans., I am imagining the all-time RX trans. or the dual range 5-spd. (forgetting what years that is) The engine I put in I want producing low-end power for some good 'ol mud slinging.

Maybe some hp/tq stat.s for the ea81 and ea82 engines would help me figure out what would be best.

Thanks for clearing that up, I was unclear what exactly was meant by a suspension swap in this case.

-Noah

#10 calebz

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 10:15 AM

Engine Specs

#11 MilesFox

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 10:36 AM

caleb, you are "overinforming" this guy, tont get him jumbled.

no, there are NO BODY OR FRAME MODS to fit an er27, at least none to fit an ea82, and the er27 is the same width. you mat have to be crative for the radiator, but i have not done the swap myself, but i have installed ea82's

caleb, the xt5lug on an ea81 can be done fairly easy with LITTLE MODIFICATION. the rx trans will fit normally like the general 5-spd swap that so many have done.

the ea82 suspension will allow you to use the xt6 axle, and the ONLY FABRICATION will be the OTHER SIDE OF THE LOWER CONTROL ARM MOUNT, you are basically cutting off the rear flange of the mount from an ea82, and welding it behind the mount on ea81, so the lower control arm mounts one width behind, cause the ea82's curve forward. once that is accomplished, the strut and axle will fit.

on my setup, i used EA81 strut cap, and ea82 strut and springs. i had to modify the hole on the cap tp fit on the shaft of the strut, easy dremel work. of the ea81 is power steering, simply swap out inner and outer tierods with ea82's. mine was manual rack, so i had to cut and lengthen mine

the dual range rx trans can be found in 85-89, with the full time units from 87-89. ask DR. RX for his expertise on rx models and what they had

Tomrhere is goung to put the er27 and 5spd in his 82 brat, ask him for his expertise, as his brat already has an ea82 motor and ea82 radiator

ea82 turbos ate 115 hp, spfi ea82 is 95 hp, and carbs are like 85-90 hp, stock and all

if you do swap whatever engine, the y pipes or turbo downpipes will still meet the rest of the exhaust at the same location. dual exhaust is easy to make yourself on a subaru\

this is what i know, i have mixed a lot of parts, so feel free to ask me any time about how i fit them together. i will be rolling through missoula mid march when i go to get my car from idaho, so if you like i would stop by and show you my example, TRASHWAGON 5, the ea82 conversion wonder, you can see it first hand and its really didnt take much at all to convert it like so.

#12 calebz

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 11:05 AM

Originally posted by MilesFox
caleb, you are "overinforming" this guy



Not at all. I am stressing to him that a five lug swap and an ER27 in an EA81 car is NOT a traight bolt on swap. He stated that he would be having a mechanic do most of the work. However you put it miles, it is custom work. Shops charge out the ass for custom work. That is just a fact of life. I would hate to see someone spend thousands of dollars on a $500 car because he thought it was an easy swap.

as far as getting an ER27 into an EA81 car, ask Adam or Subaru brat how much work it was.. its not just swapping a motor. You know as well as I do that when modifying something beyond factory specs that there are always a thousand little things that need to be done. you and I may have the skills to do them, so it doesn't seem like such a big deal.. But take an old beatup soob to a shop and tell them to build you a trashwagon 5 + an ER27, and you will most assuredly be throwing a quite a lot of cash his way for the suspension mods, radiator relocation, and all of the other myriad little things that one stumbles across when doing a major mod.

it is better to be 'overinformed' than underinformed and oversimplified.

PS..MSSLGECKO.. for lifts, go to www.ozified.com

#13 MSSLGECKO

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 12:19 PM

Well thanks guys for helping me understand it all. Let's see, to make the er27 work, i need to:

-install ea82 springs. could I use different aftermarket springs instead of the ea82? (is it worth it?)
-install ea82 struts. with that comes a reworking of the strut caps (is that all that will need fabing for the struts?)
-weld in an ea82 lower control arm mount
-use ea82 axles
-use ea82 transm. (rx or dual range)

For the strut caps, what exactly did u have to do? Just bore it out a little bit?

The engine itself would bolt in. External things in the engine compartment would need to be placed somehow (such as the radiator)

The thing is that it's not too much work, it's just so much to pay someone to do it for me.

I figure no matter what, I'll stick with the ea81 engine at first, lift the little trucker and then start looking at a new engine/transmission meanwhile tweaking the current engine. Setting up exhaust, carb.s, etc. I could also install some of the ea82 suspension before the swap, right? (I remember reading about using ea82 springs on ea81's)

How does that sound? What's missing? And why can't I be filthy rich and just fork over cash and be ready to run stuff over by next week.(?)

Thanks for the interest guys,
-Noah

#14 VaporTrail

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 12:40 PM

well, according to KingSprings.com the regular EA82 strut coils are the same as the EA81. though I believe the RX front coils were stiffer...

for info on putting the ER27 into a "EA81" engine compartment, see http://www.subarubrat.com

#15 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 02:09 PM

That's a LOT of work. I hope you like to spend thousands of $$$ having some poor mechanic do it for you. Why not just start with an EA82 if that's what you want? Certainly would be cheaper.

GD

#16 MilesFox

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 05:23 PM

if you took the time to tear out the suspensin, the mod will not be hard to do

it would be most economical to find an ea82 donor car, for allits suspension parts

if you take out both suspensions, and compare, you will see the mount i speak of, you can see where to cut, or just simply make your own

the 5lugs have a bigger ball jointhole, but the 5lugs trailing arm is the same length, and will bolt in if you do the mod first

the rear ea82s are bolt in, if you ream a hole and trim a bushing. but the brakes themselves for ea82s and 5lugs are direct bolt on

this project would cost you little more than the what you paid for the parts themselves, you can do most of the work yourself as far as putting it together.

suppose i can stop by and lend a hand, i will be MUCH cheaper than any mechanic( like almost free) . like i said, i will be rolling thru the missoula area in march, i would be glad to stop over and show you a WORKING EXAMPLE, something i built for having no more into than what i paid for my $420.00 car.

i would say start with the suspension mods, knock them out, because that will open the door to more options, to use better and later STOCK parts

for the strut capsm ther eis a half-moon hole for the center of the cap, i just hollowed it out to fit the ea82 strut shaft, using the ea81 strut cap so it bolts into the strut tower. i used the ea82 springs with the ea81 cap. i want to 5 lug my setup, so i would do the same thing but ti a legacy/impreza/xt6 strut

try to source yourself an ea82 car for parts, or at least an ENTIRE font suspension to start with. if you have the capacity to to take the suspension apart, you rfabrivator has little work to do, if you must pay someone to do the heavy work

creativity and resourcefulness will carry you a lot farther than having money or spanking new parts.................................

i am just telling you from my experience, something i have done for being perpetually broke, with my 20hr a week job

you are welcome to ask any more about your setup, i will be glad to share all the little details from my conversions

#17 MSSLGECKO

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Posted 26 February 2004 - 04:19 AM

Well, I have been considering options. It's a tough call all in all, I favor the ea81 body style, especially the hatchback, but it seems like an ea82 is the sensible option for my wants/needs.
Basically if I go that path, I would be looking for an XT-6 or a Wagon in need of a er27.
I'm wondering about the availability of er27's as I have not come across any good options. Is there a list of gear ratios for the ea82 series? What are the people's opinions of each transmission?
If I go with a wagon, I suppose I would lift it and dink around with the carb.s and exhaust, then work on setting up the engine I want.

So, the main issues for me would be:

-availablility of the er27 (for a swap)
-which model to go with out of the ea82 series.

Would a turbo or a carb setup be better of a lifted subaru as far as off-road capabilities. I just wish I could have a feel for what it would be like with each setup.

On that note, Miles, if you are interested in stopping in Missoula and have the time on your treck cross country, I would love to see your car and setup in person.

I'd also like to hear what you people think of the ea81 series with a lift (i'm thinking something like 3-4" would suit me fine with proper wheels/tires) with a stock or a stock engine with somewhat higher output than stock.

*I really appreciate everyone's time and input on this topic, it is helping me a great deal as far as figuring out what the best direction for me to go is.*

At this point, I feel like most options are open. A car and a lift kit are definately within my budget for the near future. And we all know that it will snowball from there. :D

-Noah

#18 MilesFox

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Posted 27 February 2004 - 03:47 AM

my wagon was once lifted, home made, but i took it out(handling!)
i had chevy 16 inch truck roms, 6x140mm, k-6 blazer style, with camaro 205/55 tires

my intent was to instal the 5 lug suspension to mt existing ea82 parts, using legacy/impreza strut, xt knuckle, xt or legacy axle and try to fit a 23 spline doj from an ea82 2wd auto TURBO, and see if it would fit on a 2wd legacy axle. this will be necessary for my 5spd dual range part time, non turbo trans

with the xt6 lower control arms on your ea82 mounts, you will be able to fit the xt6 or legacy ball joint (mine is drilled out ea82, xt caliper and knuckle, rotor for the front parking brake)

so with that effect, if the axle doj idea can be proven (trashwagon 5 has the part i need for a mockup)
you can go with the legacy strut assembly and use wrx style brakes( for my 5spd dual range, part time, 23 spline shaft)

but the setup from the impreza/legacy splnes will be 25, same as an rx full time tranny

but the rear suspension is limited to the xt6 rear brakes(xt6 had ea82 rear suspenion, but 5 lug brakes, ea82 spindles and axles)
since the ea82 style parts are a different design of impreza and legacy

my intent was to turbo the 5spd dual range like how my 83 ea81 turbo wagon was converted from automatic to 5spd dual range. i have the parts from my 87 turbo wagon, wich now has an ej22 conversion(existing mpfi is still intact, legacy ecu and harness under hood) but if i can get this ej22 to work, i would entertain the idea of putting it in trashwagon 5, for my off road, and make the 87 turbo like its supposed to be(it came with a bad motor, i put a carb in there) to be my RX KILLER. right now its a legacy killer (wagon)




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