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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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swap hla setup for solid EJ22


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16 replies to this topic

#1 chuckillz

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 01:38 PM

HI, i was thinking about swapping my 95 legacy 2.2 hydraulic lash adjuster set up for a solid one out of a 97 2.2. Can this be done without changing the cam? my 95 has terrible valve clicking due to warn out hla's and they are $25 apace to replace from Subaru. I have both rocker setups sitting next to each other and they look like they would work, but i thought i would ask because you guys know soooo much!!! Thanks!

#2 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 01:46 PM

Yes - set the intake to .008" and the exhaust to .010". It's a direct swap - the cam doesn't matter.

Make sure the oil pump is not actually your problem - HLA's on these rarely fail (I've never seen it).

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#3 grossgary

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 02:01 PM

mizpah engineering rebuilds HLA's for like $5-$7 or something like that, that's another option should you want to just fix what you have.

#4 chuckillz

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 02:23 PM

Thanks for the info! the oil pump checked out fine. i just want to change them because i have the solid ones laying around and don't have the $$$. i got them in, and now the engine is misfiring. I think i mite have skipped a tooth when manually turning the engine over during the adjustment, I know, i know, take the plugs out first oops. could that cause the misfire or would it run at all? plugs one and two are carbon fouled and the cel is flashing. any info is greatly appreciated! thanks

#5 Gloyale

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 03:02 PM

Thanks for the info! the oil pump checked out fine. i just want to change them because i have the solid ones laying around and don't have the $$$. i got them in, and now the engine is misfiring. I think i mite have skipped a tooth when manually turning the engine over during the adjustment, I know, i know, take the plugs out first oops. could that cause the misfire or would it run at all?


Turning the engine by the Cam? otherwise I don't think it would have skipped.

I know you already installed the solids, but did you ever try reprinming the old HLA's with clean oil? they almost always spit out a burst of nasty black oil and then free up to expand fully.

Simply pull them out by the base from the rocker, immerse upside down in clean oil and poke open the vavle on the bottom while pushing down to compress the piston. Then let it rexpand, filling with clean oil. If it won't fully expand you can use poker to push it, just use something that won't break and casue damage to the HLA, yourself, or make a mess.

Back to skipped timing and solids. If you turned the engine using the Crank bolt, the belt most likely didn't skip. valve clearance is wrong.

#6 grossgary

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 03:11 PM

a misfiring EJ engine always lends me to believe the spark plugs or wires are to blame.

or are you saying new plugs are carbon fouled right away?

are you getting an actual check engine light or just not running well?
if the latter then describe - drivable or barely starts and runs?

if you don't want new plugs/wires anyway then swap sides and see if the CEL "moves". in other words if it's a "misfire on Cylinder #2" and then it's on cylinder #1 after swapping plugs....or wires.....then you know the plugs or wires are causing the misfire.

to me if you're going to run the car awhile then just get new plugs and wires.

how confident are you they were adjusted properly?

#7 chuckillz

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 04:13 PM

I'm going to readjust the valves. I must have screwed it up, I should have known it went to smoothly ha ha. I checked the timing and, of course, it is fine. its got new plugs and wires, and the dude that sold it to me said he replaced the coil. I limped it down to auto-zone and used the code reader, its throwing a P0302, cylinder 2 misfire... big surprise! I appreciate all the help, this is the best Subaru page out there!

#8 chuckillz

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 05:50 PM

I checked the valve lash and every thing checked out, but its still misfiring and it wont rev past 4000 rpm. could this be the timing? i don't know what to do, i got new plugs and wires and i swapped the coil, still same thing. I cleaned the MAS censer and nothing. I got under it and i can see a small amount of gas around the exhaust ports, so its pushing gas through with out igniting it. I know i have spark and i know i have fuel. if the timing was a tooth off would it even run?

#9 Gloyale

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 12:12 AM

Check the wires for the Cam and Crank sensor where at each side of there connectors.

I've seen a few times where the wires there start to get cracked insulation, and corrode and fray. This can cause very odd misfires and inability to rev.

Get it running and then pull the CAM sensor plug, it should smooth out and go rich, retarded. IF so then you know the Cam sensor or wiring for it is bad.

#10 thatswhatshesaid

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:24 AM

Knock sensor?

#11 Gloyale

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 09:43 AM

Knock sensor?


Nah.....you can remove them and the car runs fine.

I've never been able to notice any difference. On;y way I've ever known one to be bad was a CEL for it.

#12 Qman

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 10:33 AM

Nah.....you can remove them and the car runs fine.

I've never been able to notice any difference. On;y way I've ever known one to be bad was a CEL for it.


You can remove them and the car will run fine at low rpm. At high rpm the ECU will pull timing and you will lose performance and fuel economy. They only throw a cel after they completely fail. While they are failing they cause all sorts of runnability issues.

#13 Gloyale

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 11:44 AM

You can remove them and the car will run fine at low rpm. At high rpm the ECU will pull timing and you will lose performance and fuel economy. They only throw a cel after they completely fail. While they are failing they cause all sorts of runnability issues.


No way. I've seen Legacies and Outbacks with bad or just missing Knock sensors run for literally YEARS without any real driveability issues. (customers that are too cheap to fix unless it's something that makes the car not run)

I can see timing being pulled affecting maximum full throttle power and mileage, but not in any real world noticeable way.

I don't want to argue, but it certainly isn't the OP's problem. Not just out of the blue after changing rockers.

I still am thinking since he must have at least unclipped the CAM sensor to remove the Valve covers, that the problem lies in that connector.

If not that, then I would begin to suspect that there is some difference in the CAMs, and he may need to use the Cams that match the Roller rockers (if the rockers are different length, then the cam lobes would likley have different amount of lift)

I personally would have done that just to keep the matched components.

Edited by Gloyale, 28 October 2010 - 11:47 AM.


#14 Qman

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 03:26 PM

Not going to argue with you on this. I have witnessed it on my own car. Tuner also witnessed it. Pulls timing big at the upper rpm's. Simple as that.

#15 chuckillz

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 03:37 PM

It was a tooth off at the crank, no wonder the second side of the valve adjustment was such a nightmare haha! The solid lifters are working great nice and quiet, no more sounding like a diesel truck. I tested the hla's and 7 out of 16 wont hold oil, so ill keep the good ones for the next car i get. Thanks again for every ones input, it helped out tons!!!

#16 thatswhatshesaid

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 03:57 PM

Not to stir up any more arguments, but...
When the knock sensor went out on my Phase II EJ25, it ran like complete crap. I couldn't figure out what was wrong. I changed the plugs/wires, then PCV valve...all the basic stuff. It threw codes off and on for "misfire on cyl #" and completely sucked while going up hills (or any high-RPM activities). Finally, it threw a "your knock sensor it dead" code. When I changed the knock sensor, it was like a brand new car again. There's no question about it. I've witnessed it firsthand.

#17 LeoneTurbo

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 08:28 AM

When you unplug the knock sensor it will run fine just throw a CEL. When you unbolt the knock sensor but keep it connected the engine won't run at all... So I can imagine if the sensor is faulty it could cause rough engine running in some cases.




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