eyesore Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Right now I want to find the engineer who came up with the Gen-1 front brake design and punch him in the nose. After 3 hours of wrestling with the passenger side, I have a huge blood blister on my thumb, and after finally admitting defeat, the ONLY way I could get the caliper back on was to remove the piston side pad altogether. So now that side has 1 used up pad and the piston making contact with the rotor. I took it to one of the shops here in town, they took the wheel off, looked at it and said "no thanks, we'd rather not touch that." I have an appointment with the other shop in town on Tues. I got new pads, shoes, rotors, and a new caliper..... Hopefully the second shop will have some luck. I'm really frustrated.......and my thumb hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I've never worked on a gen 1 anything so I don't know if or how they are different. Are you having trouble getting the caliper piston back in? If so are you threading it back in or just pressing? I know on gen 2 stuff the piston threads back in. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Yeah - the pistons thread back in I think. Try threading it OUT first a little ways, and then back in - and remove the bleeder screw too. This usually works for me. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I found the sucker to punch:headbang: :temper: you seem to be having trouble, what is your problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyesore Posted February 27, 2004 Author Share Posted February 27, 2004 Thanks, guys. I was mainly just venting. As I said, I got the whole shebang to do a brake job, my R/F rotor is mangled, the outboard pad was metal to metal, and that caliper is overextended. (this is why I got a new one for that side.) I thought I'd go in there and throw on some used, but still decent, pads so I could limp her along a while longer (till I could afford a shop to do the work) Just getting the caliper off was a bear (according to the service manual: just lift up & pull out...yeah right.) I tried to just push the piston back (I know this is wrong, and I don't own the tool to do it properly, but what the heck, I have a replacement, right?) with a big C-clamp. no go. So I admitted defeat. tried to put it back together....Hah! no way jose. that (expletive) groove in the piston was not going to line up with the nub on the pad no how. After (literally) an hour of trying everything I could think of, I left the inboard pad off alltogether. I don't really care, as both the rotor & caliper will get replaced, but It just frustrated the daylights out of me. I could have done both sides on say, a chevy, in 15 minutes. The design on these is just so convoluted and such a pain (ouch my thumb) to work with. If anyone nearby has proper tools and expertise, by all means, come give me a hand!! Otherwise, I'll let the "other" shop in town have a go at it. A little nervous about letting them have at it, but I sure can't afford to take it to the Subie stealership in Des Moines. (If they would even touch it) Sorry to ramble on. I've just never encounterd a setup like this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty2Austin Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I have looked at gen1 and gen2 before, and I ahve done many-a-gen2 brakes... yes, it is a dumb design (which is why they went to the standard "press-in" pistons on the legacy and newer cars... the gen1 and gen2 calipers are ONLY screw in, you cannot squish them in like a chevy caliper, trust me, i have done the front brakes on my chevy van before too... there is a tool that schucks (or other various parts stores i assume) sell- its a little cube shaped thing, and it has pegs on it and a 3/8" hole in the middle for attaching a breaker bar or ratchet. use this tool to retract the caliper (screw it back in as if it was a bolt) and yes, opening the bleeder valve makes it a lot eaiser! do it this way and this way only (i have tried the other ways too, and have ended up with bandages wrapped around my hands and a car that had no brakes for a while!) and remember to grease the slider bolts and the anti rattle clips on the pads!!!! (or they will seize up like your old brakes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyesore Posted February 27, 2004 Author Share Posted February 27, 2004 Yeah, I knew it was supposed to screw in, but i figured i'd give it a shot. My biggest problem was that after disassembly, (and not actualy changing anything) it would NOT go back together. The angle necessary to get the caliper back on prevented the groove from lining up with the pad nub. I still don't understand how this is supposed to work. I also lack several of the tools necessary: The piston cranker, a socket large enough to remove the rotor, (a second person to bleed the system) etc. I knew from the start the whole job was a little beyond my capibilities, I was just trying to eek a little more life out of what was there. At least now without an inboard pad, the wheel is no longer siezed up. My regular shop's mechanic had an old Gen-1, so he usually does my bigger repairs, but he was in a car accident Mon., and won't be back to work for a while. The other guys at the shop who don't know subies, at least had the decency to tell me they didn't know what they were doing before tearing into it. The other shop in town said they could do it, (I hope so) They are supposedly good also, been around for years in a town of 1500. (If you suck here, you don't last long) My "regular" shop has just been servicing our family for decades, so we know each other well. Mom's gonna float me the cash to get it done. If I try and do any more myself, I'll just end up hurting me, and probably the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 YOU NEED NO SPECIAL TOOLS A "BLACK" floor buffer pad to re-finish the rotors and drums a "BIG" wrench or pliers to fit the caliper piston a section of "FISH TANK AIR TUBE" to bleed out the air a "JAR" to put the old fluid in "THE PROCEDURE" RELEASE PARKING BRAKE jack up car remove all wheels! USE SAFETY STANDS remove one bolt holding caliper bracket slide caliper off to inside of car support caliper with wire remove pads and clips screw piston in with weapon of choice! clean all sliding surfaces and lube as necessary satart car and put in gear of choice! re-surface rotor with "BLACK" pad turn off car and put in neutral install pads and clips squirt white greese in caliper mounting cylinder re-install caliper assembly remove old brake fluid from reservoir, and clean add fresh fluid bleed brakes in a "X" pattern, ex.. left front, right rear bleed brakes by pumping pedal 2x for each corner, install "TUBE" to each bleeder screw open bleeder and wait for no more bubbles to appear close bleeder repeat for each wheel until NO bubbles appear at each wheel add FRESH fluid as necessary return car to operation as needed HAND TORQUE LUG NUTS TO SPEC! if you still have a problem, I SHOULD be able to fix it for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyesore Posted February 28, 2004 Author Share Posted February 28, 2004 Well, I have new rotors (no socket or driver big enough to remove them) New pads (no tool that will crank & compress drivers side caliper) a new pass. side caliper to replace the way overextended one on there now, and new shoes. ( I avoid drums at all costs. For some reason I am incapable of doing drums right. I have screwed them up several times before.) The passenger side rotor is beyond resurfacing. It's bad. Eyesore is mobile, however. If you're willing, and have the tools, I can come to you if you feel like helping me with this. All I own are some SAE sockets and some wrenches. This job is just a bit beyond my skill level / tool invintory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 need your phone number Sunday feb 29 will work for me, otherwise it will be after wednesday the 3rd I have all the tools needed to do the job right, and many more! hwy 17 north to Zook Spur RD, turn left call 515-771-1239 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 all problems with brakes solved forgot to clean up the left side clips, too late now! MAKE SURE YOU WASH OFF THE BRAKE FLUID UNDER THE HOOD, big mess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyesore Posted March 1, 2004 Author Share Posted March 1, 2004 THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! I made it home safely, and the brakes work great. Please tell your dad thanks again also. BTW, Fri. does look open, so shoot me a PM as we get closer and we'll go play in some mud. You da man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asavage Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 I still don't get it. I've never had to work with a Subaru caliper, and I'm not visualizing this right. I do have a poor exploded view of the caliper, and it's not . . . illuminating. If you have to screw the caliper's piston in when installing new pads, how does it become "unscrewed" in normal service? My park brake levers (the one on each caliper) seem to have to move too far to perform their task. The cables' dirt bellows are over-compressed by the time enough clamping force is applied. My pads are near new, really! Do I need to "unscrew" the pistons a bit? I don't understand this, and I want to -- preferably, without taking one all apart first. I pulled a boot off the back of a park lever, but all I really saw was a clean and greased nothing. Didn't look like any way to adjust park lever slop there. Adjusting the park handle up on the tunnel isn't the answer: the levers on the calipers are moving too far. Anybody got a really good pic of this assy disassembled, or a maybe a better line drawing than the one I've got? I really miss having a FSM for this '93. [Also, for you Portland, Ore. folks only, I could use some help.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 So is your parking brake not working? The dust boot's do compress pretty far from what I have seen.... if it's working then I say let it be. If not, then I would say your caliper is worn out internally - there's a part inside called the "spindle" which acts in a similar fashing to a cam lobe in the engine - when you pull on the lever, the lobe pushes on the piston.... As to the brake pad replacement - what I do is remove the bleeder screw, and then screw the piston OUT a quarter to a half a turn. This helps to release the mechanism inside, and makes turning them back in a breeze. Then you just turn them all the way in, and re-insall with new pads - then bleed the front calipers... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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