jdemaris Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Does anybody know, for sure, what the correct tooth-count is on my 2002 Impreza Outack 2.5 SOHC? Right now - the passenger-side cam sprocket to crank-sprocket is 48 teeth. The driver's side cam sprocket to crank-gear is 44 1/2 teeth. This does not seem to agree with any info I've found so far on the web. New belt is a Cloyes B307 and says "223 teeth" on the box. The old Subaru belt I took off no longer has any marks on it, to compare with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Info I have says 46.8 teeth to passenger side, 43.7 to driver's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Just go by the timing marks. Tooth count is useless, as how do you use 0.8, 0.7, 0.5 inch teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdemaris Posted November 15, 2010 Author Share Posted November 15, 2010 Just go by the timing marks. Tooth count is useless, as how do you use 0.8, 0.7, 0.5 inch teeth. Where ARE the timing marks? Crank gear is no problem since gear is marked and so is the engine-block. Driver's side cam gear also no problem since gear is marked and so is the plastic timing cover behind it. But with the passenger-side cam gear - there's no mark on the engine to line it up with mark on the gear. Should it point straight up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahoe Subaru Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 (edited) the impreza and legacy take different belts. I believe yours takes a 304 not the 307. I think they are the same except for tooth profile. my manual says 44 and 40.5 Edited November 15, 2010 by Tahoe Subaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 [...]But with the passenger-side cam gear - there's no mark on the engine to line it up with mark on the gear. Should it point straight up? See attachment -- © is mark on cam sprocket, (d) is matching surface on cylinder head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 the impreza and legacy take different belts. I believe yours takes a 304 not the 307. I think they are the same except for tooth profile. Agreed -- the parts lookup at http://www.cloyes.com/default.aspx? tabid=378 results in: B304 Engine Timing Belt Subaru Impreza (Car) 2002 2.5L H4 2458cc; EJ251 Desig.; SOHC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Just go by the timing marks. Tooth count is useless, as how do you use 0.8, 0.7, 0.5 inch teeth. Guesstimation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdemaris Posted November 16, 2010 Author Share Posted November 16, 2010 See attachment -- © is mark on cam sprocket, (d) is matching surface on cylinder head Thanks - that's how I have it now. Will repost tomorrow after I run it. Note - tooth count with all marks where they ought to be does not match what others have posted. Pass-side-cam to crank-gear is 48 teeth. Driver's side cam-gear to crank gear is 44 1/2 teeth. The numbers others posted matches a 2001 2.2, but not my 2002 2.5. I'm sitting here with a magnifying glass on the original belt, and I can now just barely see the old OEM marks. It too is spaced 48 teeth (pass) and 44 1/2 teeth (driver's side). Hopefully this will fix it. About the teeth-count others have posted. Are those numbers from official Subaru manuals for 2.5s, or are they from aftermarket manuals? I'm just trying to sort out this tooth-count thing. I've found several others on forums with 2.5s who say their tooth count is the same as mine seems to be. Again - seems mine should be 48 and 44.5. Not the 47/43.5 others have mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahoe Subaru Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 (edited) I have a used belt also. (03 2.5) I came up with 47 and 44 (could be 43.5 as the mark is somewhat on the tooth) that's teeth between the marks. starting at the crank mark thats the 307 belt. the impreza takes the 304 belt. I don't know what problems you will run into running the wrong belt. Edited November 16, 2010 by Tahoe Subaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 The tooth count I gave in post #2 is from the factory manual, but if that doesn't seem to align, do what you have to. On the other hand, the 307 belt is the wrong one, according to Cloyes, it should be the 304. See the link in post #7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahoe Subaru Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 my manual is the factory also. I guess it wasn't updated. I believe its 43.5 as the crank starts in a valley and end on a tooth at the cam. and 47 as it starts and ends in a valley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdemaris Posted November 16, 2010 Author Share Posted November 16, 2010 the impreza and legacy take different belts. I believe yours takes a 304 not the 307. I think they are the same except for tooth profile. my manual says 44 and 40.5 "Nope" to both - at least in my situation. I called Subaru tech, and Cloyes, and Gates. The two belts - Cloyes B304 and B307 are exactly the same in regard to fit. B304 is "standard duty OEM" and B307 is "heavy duty" kevlar. Cloyes tech told me they make the cheaper B304 themselves, but they buy the better B307 kevlar belt from Germany. B304 Cloyes is equal to Subaru # 13028AA181 B307 Cloyes is equal to Subaru # 13028AA21A Both are 223 teeth, 1 1/16" wide, and 70 1/4" long. My car's original OEM belt from the factory was the 13028AA181 belt, i.e. the cheaper belt. Now I have the supposedly more durable kevlar version. Note also that absolutely, beyond any doubt - tooth count is not what others have posted. From passenger-side cam to crank-sprocket is 48 teeth. From driver's-side cam to crank-sprocket is 44 1/2 teeth. I took it back apart and installed this way and it now runs perfect. Note also that I closely inspected the original old belt and it has timing marks spaced at this same 48 and 44 1/2 spacing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 Just as another point of reference, read this entire thread (both pages): http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=93767 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdemaris Posted November 17, 2010 Author Share Posted November 17, 2010 Just as another point of reference, read this entire thread (both pages):http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=93767 Yes, I've read through all that as well as from other sources. I'm not sure what to believe. Most of the forth-digit VIN code stuff is for Outbacks only. If the teeth are actually different, how come the cam sprockets for engines with either belt are the same part #s 1999 to 2009? Also Subara now lists the same belt for all Impreza 2.5 SOHC engines 1999 to 2010. # 13028AA231 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdemaris Posted November 21, 2010 Author Share Posted November 21, 2010 Just as another point of reference, read this entire thread (both pages):http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=93767 Second-guessing myself , I pulled it all part again. Took out the the B307 belt and put in a B304. After very close inspection - they are 100% exactly the same in regard to fit, width, length, and tooth shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Thanks for posting the pictures. It does appear that the fit is the same, at least for the particular manufacturers. Since some companies apparently claim differences other than longevity, and some forum members have reported such differences, it begs the question as to why. The Cloyes belts apparently fit well in your application, so for them it seems either the 304 or 307 is acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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