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5 lug swap questions/help!!!!


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22 replies to this topic

#1 1982gl4

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 07:44 PM

I started doing my five lug conversion on my ea81 ( 86 Brat to be exact) I bought some control arms and rear hub, rotors, and calipers off from an xt6 from a very helpful board member! I did the rear no problem last week . When I went to do the front this weekend I drilled out the cross memeber due to the xt6 having a larger diameter bolt, bolted in the new control arms, and found that my radius arms are short :-\

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They also seem to be a little off center
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Am I doing something wrong? Do I need need more parts if so what do I need? radius arms from an ea82 or an xt6? Any ideas would be much appreciated.

-SB

#2 LPGsuperchargedBrumby

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 03:49 AM

i'm not sure what has happened to cause your alignment problems.

i have XT6 hubs on my brumby with the same setup you describe, EA81 control arms bored out to take the taper of the XT6 ball joint.

that was about the only bit of my swap that went without a hitch.

can you pull the control arm back to allow the radius arm to fit?

if you can try to run 16 inch rims or bigger...i have 15 inch 250T factory rims and i had to put 6mm spacers behind the rims so the steering balljoints wouldn't contact the inner surface of the rim at full suspension drop

what are you using for front suspension struts?
i have TEIN adjustables from a legacy wagon fitter via a machined adaptor that allows me to use my EA81 top hats

#3 Psyko

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 05:22 AM

*insert explicative here*

I've been scouring the forums to figure this out. Here it is: EA81 and EA82 control arms are different shapes. Instead of using XT6 control arms on an EA81 you need to use the EA81 control arms and ream out the ball joint hole to accept the larger ball joint.

http://ultimatesubar...383&postcount=2

#4 MilesFox

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 10:52 AM

TAKE A LOOK AND YOU WILL NOTICE THAT THE ORIGINAL CONTROL ARMS CURVE FORWARD, AND THE ONES YOU JUST BOLTED ON A RE STRAIGHT. YOU (sorry caps, too lazy to re-type) will need to relocate the mount forward.

if you can find an e82 crossmember, you can drill the spot welds to remove the 'ear' from the front part of the lower control arm mount and weld it on the ea81 frame, so that the front ear on the current setup becomes the rear ear.

otherwise, you will have to ream out the balljoint hole to match that of the xt6 ball joint.

going the route i suggested, you will have a wider front track. And if you have a manual steering rack, you are going to have to hybrid inner and outer tie rods to makeup that length.

otherwide, the xt6 contrl arm is a direct bold in replacement on ea82 models

#5 ruparts

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 07:22 PM

the xt6 lower control arm uses a bigger bolt to mount it to the crossmember, if you put them on a ea-82 crossmember you need to drill the holes to match the bigger bolt, and they tend to rub inside the crossmember pockets since they are a bit bigger on the end. maybe using the smaller bolts and letting the arms drop down a little is ok and that may not rub.

#6 Pooparu

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 09:03 PM

you can read the write up I did on my Hatch:

http://www.ultimates...?t=98829&page=7

#7 1982gl4

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 06:58 AM

Thanks Everyone! I think I'm going to move the mounts back, I'm doing this because I would like a little wider front end as I'm going to be using EJ CV's and I won't have to cut them down quite as much. I have an EA82 as of right now that I was planing on turning into a off road rig, but if need be the brat will get whatever it needs off from that. I also have a power steering rack retrofitted into my brats subframe as of right now so figuring out tire rod ends and such shouldn't be that hard even if I do have to put the ea82 rack in it.

#8 MilesFox

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 08:52 AM

I like your style. in my opinion, making the xt6/ea82 control arm work is the way to go. As long as you understand my suggestion, you will be good to go. It sounds like an ea82 steering rack swap will elimintate any need for custom tierods. I have built the same setup to run all ea82 running gear in an ea81 wagon, with hybrid tierods(manual rack, power tie rods inner and outer)

Just so you know, you can retrofit ea82/xt6 rear trailing arms by just drilling out the mount for the pivot bolt. They fit the same dimensionally, but you will have the added bonus of rear swaybar mounts. You would want to run spacers to match the width of the front track, as the dimensions will remain the same, using the same mounting points and axles.

I would suggest retrofitting ea82 rear coilovers in the brat as well

#9 1982gl4

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 10:31 AM

Just so you know, you can retrofit ea82/xt6 rear trailing arms by just drilling out the mount for the pivot bolt. They fit the same dimensionally, but you will have the added bonus of rear swaybar mounts. You would want to run spacers to match the width of the front track, as the dimensions will remain the same, using the same mounting points and axles.

I would suggest retrofitting ea82 rear coilovers in the brat as well


So putting on the rear trailing arms will give me no added width? So i will have to run wheel spacers? Is that what you are saying? Also with the stock torsion bars will the coil overs make the rear way to stiff or will it be ok? Also I have taken off the front control arm mounts and am going to fit them to my ea81 subframe today! Maybe it will be on all fours again by the end of the week!
-SB

#10 1982gl4

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 01:32 PM

Well I got the ears welded on today and am pretty happy with the result!
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You also don't have to use the EA82 radius arms they were the same length, just a little thicker. I just used the ones that were already on the brat and they seem to fit just fine!

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Edited by 1982gl4, 05 January 2011 - 08:41 PM.
New pics


#11 1982gl4

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 10:52 PM

The project was a success!

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I'll have to figure out tire rod ends because the legacy hubs don't work with the ea series ends at all, but that's okay I'm just happy I got everything to work so far thanks for the help everyone!

-SB

#12 Numbchux

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 11:47 PM

EA81 rod ends work just fine. and are shorter than the EJ/ER stuff so you can get your alignment correct.

#13 1982gl4

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 01:02 AM

EA81 rod ends work just fine. and are shorter than the EJ/ER stuff so you can get your alignment correct.


I have to lengthen them due to the fact that I have xt6 control arms which are longer, I planed on using my ea82 PS rack from my donor car but the line were way to rusty. As of right now I have an ea81 PS rack in it. Plus with the added length of the struts and spindles I used the angle is way to steep and could not get them to go into the spindle. But hey what's some more fab work on this project!
-SB

#14 MilesFox

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 03:01 AM

Do some research about the inner seal of the knuckle vs xt6/legacy axle. I had the same issue fitting legacy axles with xt6 hubs. you should not have to modify any axles, as the right combination will fit now that the brat essentially has ea82 front geometry. What you did in your phitos with the crossmember is exactly what i was mentioning. I am glad to see pictures of it for reference!

You are correct about having a narrower rear that does not change with ea82 trailig arms. Depending on your intended driving environment, you can re-clock or loosen the tension for the torsion bar. Ea82 has no torsion bar, so you either have doubled up suspension, or you can lessen the force of the torsion bar and rely on the ea82 coilover.

Supposedly as i have read, 05 legacy rear coilovers have gone back to that style that the eyelet on the bottom will fit, you can fab to suit the top mount, or use an ea82 mount if you have that fitted already. You may be able to find info about using later model rear brakes by modifying a backing plate to fit your control arms, and use the 5 lug hubs you have already.

#15 Numbchux

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 04:58 AM

if EA81 rod ends are too short, grab some for an XT6 or EJ. Same thread pitch and taper, just longer. I used them for a bit on my Ea82, but even with the tie rod bottomed out in the rod end, I had positive toe.....

Miles, 2000 saw the change to multilink rear suspension in the legacy, and 2008 for the impreza, but the stock shocks are similar at best to EA82s. The Tein coilover kits that are almost a bolt-on installation on an Ea82 are valved for an '05+.

Also, for inner seal part #s to mix and match EJ/ER knuckles/axles:
http://www.ultimates...18&postcount=20
http://www.ultimates...56&postcount=23

#16 1982gl4

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 08:45 AM

Do some research about the inner seal of the knuckle vs xt6/legacy axle. I had the same issue fitting legacy axles with xt6 hubs. you should not have to modify any axles, as the right combination will fit now that the brat essentially has ea82 front geometry. What you did in your phitos with the crossmember is exactly what i was mentioning. I am glad to see pictures of it for reference!


I'm not worried about the seals right now. I'm using the hubs off from a legacy. This way I have camber adjustment. The struts are pretty tight in the towers but I think I should be able to make them work. Any way still go to know if I ever have to swap them out!
-SB

#17 bratman18

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 09:20 AM

Looks awesome!! That thing must stop really well with 2 pot front calipers!!!

#18 1982gl4

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 01:16 PM

Looks awesome!! That thing must stop really well with 2 pot front calipers!!!


Haha I would tell you if it had any sort of drive train the frakenmotor may go in today if i get motivated then comes the AWD five speed!
-SB

#19 bratman18

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 07:30 PM

nice!!! make sure you post lots of pics

#20 1982gl4

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 10:57 PM

http://z15.invisionf...owtopic=82&st=0

http://www.ultimates...t=117101&page=3

Here are a couple links for the build up so far if you feel like checking them out!
-SB

#21 bobjr94

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 04:19 PM

So what are people using for parking brakes that have xt6 rear & impreza front hubs ? The xt6 still hard parking brakes on the front caliper I thought.

Anyone just do xt6 front and back swaps or there some other problem doing it that way?

#22 Numbchux

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 04:57 PM

So what are people using for parking brakes that have xt6 rear & impreza front hubs ? The xt6 still hard parking brakes on the front caliper I thought.

Anyone just do xt6 front and back swaps or there some other problem doing it that way?


Yep, the XT6 is front handbrake.

EJ stuff offers much better brake and suspension options. The tab on the knuckle for the tie rod end is in a slightly different place, which helps with the bump-steer and roll center.


I ran without a handbrake for a long time, didn't really bother me. But I also swapped to Nissan 200SX calipers in the rear.

You can also re-drill EJ rear backing plates to use the EJ drum-in-disc parking brakes and calipers. This means you only need the XT6 hubs, and almost any EJ brake combination.

Or, there's some combination of early EJ 2-pot caliper brackets (turbo legacy, or ver. 1 WRX, I believe) that will allow you to put the XT6 caliper on the EJ knuckle. This means you still have the single-pot calipers, but the larger 276mm rotors.

#23 1982gl4

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 05:57 PM

Yeah I haven't exactly figured out a e-brake yet. I was thinking I may take some four wheeler calipers or something, and make my own brackets and have a hydraulic e-brake of some kind. I was also thinking that I may do ej rear brakes, but there are no good baking plates up here, they have all rusted out, and the price of new ones will shock you :eek: so for now I probably won't have one. There's always a block of wood in the bed, and first gear! :grin:




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