Power Door Lock problem

[scoutboy74]

Hello all. Please bear with as this will be a long and winding road. I searched the archives and did not find anything close enough to the issue I'm about to detail. My friend has a '96 Legacy wagon equipped with the poorest excuse for a PDL system I've ever encountered. Several months ago, she experienced problems with her battery running down and leaving her stranded. We replaced the battery as it was quite old and failed load tests. After about two months with the new battery and tight, clean terminals, the same thing happened again. We had already determined that the charging system was working fine before the old battery was replaced. I immediately began to suspect a dead short as the culprit and was able to confirm the presence of such in about 5 minutes. No wonder her battery kept running down with the constant drain. I then began the process of isolating which circuit was shorting out. I soon discovered it was the 15A fuse in the block under the hood which corresponds to the Clock/Room circuit. Pull that fuse, no more short. Obviously without that fuse, the clock, station memory and interior lights are negatively affected if not completely inoperable. What I didn't expect is that removing this fuse would also render the PDL inop as well. I know the locks have their own 20A fuse in the panel under the dash, I believe it is number 11. I verified the presence of voltage at that location and the fuse is good. The locks should work. Why would there be a relationship between the clock, interior lights and door locks? Logic dictates that there shouldn't be one, but sure enough, when I replace that clock fuse, the locks are once again functional and so to is the dreaded dead short. I must keep in mind that this is a disposable contrivance and not a real vehicle like an IHC Scout. Sorry Subee lovers! The sound system is factory original and to my knowledge has never been out of the dash. If I had to take a wild azz guess, which I hate doing when it comes to auto repair, I'd suspect that the PDL switch is malfunctioning. Which begs the following questions: 1. Where is the switch located? 2. Are replacements readily available? 3. Will she have to surrender her first born in order to cover the cost of said item? Anyone ever have a similar issue? Any obvious things I'm overlooking? Her budget is extra tight like a lot of other folks out there. This is her only transportation. A new Hoopdy is not in her immediate future. While the car is still driveable, this problem is quite nerve wracking for her nonetheless. I'd be a superhero in her eyes if I could solve this for her in an economic fashion. Thanks in advance for taking the time to follow along and for posting any helpful thoughts and suggestions on this matter.

Edited December 22, 2010 by scoutboy74

[lmdew]

Check under the dash and see if there is extra wires, I bet someone put in a Security system at some time and tied into that circuit.

 

The Subaru Keyless entry system is a black box about 4x5x1. It's usually held in with zip strips.

 

The good thing is you know what circuit it is. Now it's just a matter of isolating the short.

[idosubaru]

good job trying to track this down so far.

 

has the car ever been in an accident? if so you might want to look there at wiring/switches/connectors.

 

to throw parts at it i'd replace the door lock timer, it's behind the glove box/dash area and a common replacement item. if unplugging it gets rid of the drain then that might suggest it's the timer.

 

if the door switches can cause drains then unplugging those should also alleviate the drain.

 

you could place a multimeter or one of those test lights between the battery cable and terminal of the battery and watch the drain decrease as you disconnect the timer/door mechanisms too.

 

and really? a brand name ego game? so you've been thoroughly indoctrinated by a brand and you get puffed up by metal pieces and tiny bubble worlds, there's healthier ways to live and interact with people but i think i can guess how much you care and what your reply will be.

[scoutboy74]

Check under the dash and see if there is extra wires, I bet someone put in a Security system at some time and tied into that circuit.

 

The Subaru Keyless entry system is a black box about 4x5x1. It's usually held in with zip strips.

 

The good thing is you know what circuit it is. Now it's just a matter of isolating the short.

 

I'll check again for signs of an AMS system, but I'm pretty sure at this point there isn't such a thing on this vehicle. This car is also not equipped with keyless entry. Thanks for the suggestions though.

[scoutboy74]

good job trying to track this down so far.

 

has the car ever been in an accident? if so you might want to look there at wiring/switches/connectors.

 

to throw parts at it i'd replace the door lock timer, it's behind the glove box/dash area and a common replacement item. if unplugging it gets rid of the drain then that might suggest it's the timer.

 

if the door switches can cause drains then unplugging those should also alleviate the drain.

 

you could place a multimeter or one of those test lights between the battery cable and terminal of the battery and watch the drain decrease as you disconnect the timer/door mechanisms too.

 

and really? a brand name ego game? so you've been thoroughly indoctrinated by a brand and you get puffed up by metal pieces and tiny bubble worlds, there's healthier ways to live and interact with people but i think i can guess how much you care and what your reply will be.

 

The car was impacted in the rear at low speed. I'm trying to recall now if that was before or after the battery was replaced. Kinda fuzzy on the time line there. The rear hatch was damaged cosmetically, but not operationally. The DL timer sounds interesting. Thank you for the suggestions.

 

As for ego games, its called a joke. I don't see how my harmless my tongue-in-cheek quip is worthy of such a snooty diatribe. FYI, the particular vehicle I was referring to is an orphan that has not been produced in over 30 years. The one I own is a 1974 model, still on the road today. I have no doubt there are Subaru's of that vintage and older still providing faithful service as well. I belong to the school of thought that a great many of the vehicles produced both domestically and from foreign markets after 1980 were not meant to be classics passed on from one generation to the next. Most are used for their more or less pre-engineered service life and sent to the scrap heap, ie disposable. Of course there are exceptions to everything. Merry Christmas!

[idosubaru]

The car was impacted in the rear at low speed. I'm trying to recall now if that was before or after the battery was replaced.

accident doesn't sound worthy enough to cause the lock issues. not familiar with testing the lock timers, but that causes other door lock issues.

[heartless]

if the rear hatch was damaged i would seriously pull the interior panel on the rear hatch and check for pinched and/or damaged wires - just to reassure myself that all is A-Ok there. there are several wires in that area that could easily get pinched/damaged by even a mild impact. (rear defrost, rear wiper, PDL wires, cargo area light switch...)

 

arent electrical issues fun!

[scoutboy74]

They are indeed. There's a couple observations I need to add which should have been in my original post, but slipped my mind at the time. When I checked for the presence of a short with my 12v test light in between the neg terminal and neg cable, rather than a constant illumination like I've experienced with shorts on other vehicles, the light was pulsating at a steady pace. This was of course before I pulled the clock/room fuse, which completely eliminated even the slightest illumination from the test light. Also, while touching the neg cable to the neg terminal, then pulling it away and repeating, I could hear what sounded very much like door lock servos cycling each time contact was made. I tried to reproduce that again on a different day with no success. In both instances, all fuses were in place. May not mean much to anyone, but in the interest of full disclosure, there it is.

[mdjdc]

If you are hearing what sounds like soor lock servos the car does have a keyless entry box under the dash. The system will activate a stupid cycle if the battery drains and if the battery is replaced without you doing a specific sequence of events. Look up under the drivers dash and you will see a black box. I may be held in with zip ties or it may be ona bracket, but it will say subaru keyless entry on it. Someone may have put it in there and she never knew it was there. Take the box out or just unplug all of the connections going to it. There will be no more servo sound and the drain will go away. These boxes are a high failure item. I just had the same issue on my sisters OBW and I took the box out and all is fine now. You do not need the box in there for any other function than to run the keyless entry.

 

Trust me on this one and look.

 

Cheers

[Cougar]

The advice MDJDC gives sounds good to me. Hopefully you can find the box and disconnecting it will eliminate the trouble.

 

In an effort to look into this trouble I checked the wiring diagram and I can't find any reference to a clock circuit. I did find a fuse that is called fuse 25 in the prints and it is located second from the bottom of the row of fuses in the panel under the hood, also called fuse circuit MB-9. I think this is the fuse you are refering to. Here is a list of places the fuse ties to:

 

Door lock timer

Headlight alarm relay

Interrupt relay

Radio

Security control module

Security indicator light

Spot light

Room light

Step light

Combination meter

Luggage room light

Trailer connector

Trunk room light

 

If I was working on this I would start by pulling modules in an effort to find the trouble. Also check the trailer connector. Since you are seeing a pulsing current the trouble is most likely with a module.

 

As an added note this trouble really isn't a short in the true sense but it is a extra current or parasitic current draw.

 

Edited December 25, 2010 by Cougar

[scoutboy74]

MD, I like your certainty. You're the second person to point an accusing finger at that particular component. I'll check it out. Would be great if something that simple turned out to be the offending item. Thanks for your input.

[scoutboy74]

The advice MDJDC gives sounds good to me. Hopefully you can find the box and disconnecting it will eliminate the trouble.

 

In an effort to look into this trouble I checked the wiring diagram and I can't find any reference to a clock circuit. I did find a fuse that is called fuse 25 in the prints and it is located second from the bottom of the row of fuses in the panel under the hood, also called fuse circuit MB-9. I think this is the fuse you are refering to. Here is a list of places the fuse ties to:

 

Door lock timer

Headlight alarm relay

Interrupt relay

Radio

Security control module

Security indicator light

Spot light

Room light

Step light

Combination meter

Luggage room light

Trailer connector

Trunk room light

 

If I was working on this I would start by pulling modules in an effort to find the trouble. Also check the trailer connector. Since you are seeing a pulsing current the trouble is most likely with a module.

 

As an added note this trouble really isn't a short in the true sense but it is a extra current or parasitic current draw.

 

 

Yes Cougar, you're correct. That's the fuse I'm referring to. In the owner's manual it is labeled as Clock/Room. Really wish I had a repair manual for this car so I knew the location of of all these modules. However, that list you've provided clearly identifies a relationship between the clock/station memory, interior lights and the door locks, which was one of my initial questions. This discussion has helped me wrap my brain around the idea that the problem isn't with the door locks themselves, but rather a secondary, related component that is in bed with a handful of other non-related components. Your clarification about the true nature of this electrical malady is very well taken. The noose of speculation is tightening now around either the timer or a keyless entry device. I'm very anxious for round 3 of this match. So far the car and I have just traded blows. I smell blood now thanks to the suggestions in this thread. You guys are great! Thanks and Happy Holidays to all!

[Cougar]

You're welcome for the help and Merry Christmas to all.

 

Here is a link you can use to download some info from. The bottom one is what you want I believe.

 

http://www.finleyweb.net/JonsStuff/SubaruDocumentation.aspx

 

 

The trouble very well may be with the door lock timer module since you stated you can hear the solenoids move when power is applied. I would try that module first to see if that helps.

 

The info shows the door timer to be near or behind the passenger kick panel. The security module appears to be behind the instrument panel. Instructions say to remove the panel in order to get at it. The trouble may also be in the cluster so disconnecting it may be a thing to try if other things aren't the problem.

Edited December 25, 2010 by Cougar

[1-3-2-4]

I'm a little lost with the OP are you saying when you connect the battery again the locks work?

 

I had to replace my door lock timer because mine just downright failed (they have two relays on them) thats why you hear them click.

[scoutboy74]

With the Clock/Room fuse pulled the power locks don't work, but there is no parasitic drain on the battery. With the fuse in place the locks function, but there is a constant drain on the battery. Don't think I can explain it any more clearly or simply than that.

[idosubaru]

to throw parts at it i'd replace the door lock timer, it's behind the glove box/dash area and a common replacement item.

that's going to be the issue. annoying to replace though. not overly time consuming or hard...just tight spaces and not obvious how to get it out. there's a decent thread where folks that have done it comment on replacing it.

[1-3-2-4]

yeah it's a pain to get to but worth it to have all your doors to work again.. I did mine when it was pouring rain out in my parking space.

[lmdew]

Remember you volt meter can lie to you if you do not put the circuit under load. If you can test it loaded, that great. If you are forced to disconnect the cirsuit you may read system voltage but you many not have a functioning circuit.

 

One of the best tools and book on electrical troubleshooting can be found at www.brighterideas.com.

 

The TesLite leads work with any meter and Dan's Electrical Troubleshooting book is a great reference.

 

Larry

[scoutboy74]

UPDATE! Finally got to have at the problem child NY's Day. Took the glove box completely out looking for the DL Timer only to discover it weren't there. Then contorted myself under the driver's side dash looking for a keyless entry module. Didn't see one, but I did see the DL Timer in that location. I unplugged the harness, but that did not alleviate the pulsing drain. Then I decided to remove the stock radio from the equation. Upon getting the cup holders and trim pieces removed, I noticed that someone had spilled what looked to be a foo-foo half-caff de-caff soy mocha-chino all over the inside of that housing, most of which had dripped right down onto the radio cabinet with exposed ventilation holes and sensitive electrical doomajiggers. NASTEE! I don't know how the radio/clock was still working at all. Think I found my culprit Watson. Sure enough, that was the source of the drain. So I called up miss thing to ask her if she might have a CD player collecting dust that she'd like me to install. As luck would have it, she did, so I did. Problem solved, major points scored. Thanks to all who chimed in.

[Cougar]

Glad to hear you solved the trouble and scored some extra points in the process. Good job and thanks for the update.

[idosubaru]

I noticed that someone had spilled what looked to be a foo-foo half-caff de-caff soy mocha-chino all over the inside of that housing, most of which had dripped right down onto the radio cabinet with exposed ventilation holes and sensitive electrical doomajiggers. NASTEE!

best follow up i've heard in a long time. apologies for it not being the timer, spilled hangover remedies never crossed my mind, i'll add that to my diagnostic tool kit.

 

high sight being what it is - how could one have reduced that laundry list of items sharing that fuse?