bstone Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Find a shop that either specialized in Subaru or Japanese cars and ask to talk to their subaru guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter313 Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 Ask them to pay for a Subaru dealer or independent Subaru shop to install a used or rebuilt engine. Again a dealer or independent Subaru shop should be the most knowledgeable here. They can more than likely track down the source of the power steering problem as well. Is there a problem with the transmission now? I know you said they replaced a seal. The transmission's always seemed a little iffy on that car. late shifting, rough shifting, gear sticking. but it's always checked out fine. I just figure if I'm going to buy a new engine and it's affordable to add this, might as well get rid of the other massively expensive breakable thing before it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatswhatshesaid Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Step one: Ask for a complete refund + the cost of the added repairs. That should be enough to replace the engine. Then you can perhaps part out/sell the old motor for a few extra bucks. Step two: Get the final repair work done from a more reliable source. Step three: Enjoy your Subaru for another 250k miles, and forget about this little hiccup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 The 4EAT transmission is probably one of the most reliable things on your car. Great tranny - don't replace it if it's working. A couple drain/fills and $30 in ATF later can make a big difference. DO NOT have it flushed. That just causes bigger problems usually. I have done my share of tranny swaps - I've replaced over a dozen 5 speeds. I have replaced only one 4EAT. Even when they have been abused and never had the fluid changed, etc - some new ATF usually does wonders. It's astounding how reliable they are frankly. I would get them to agree to the engine replacement - then tell them that "to save them money" you would like to persue the EJ22 replacment. A good used EJ22 is likely to last you longer than an EJ25D and will cost half as much. Both you and the shop win (as much as these guys *can* win at this point). Explain it to them in detail - print out posts from this forum detailing the swap if you have to. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 What GD says is dead on. Don't flush it. For the love of G-d don't flush it. Just drain it and refill. Will have to do a few drain and refills to get all the fluid changed. GD, my 4EAT with 230k miles on it finally died over the summer. I replaced it with a "low mileage" 90k mile one. Had to replace the Duty C in it while it was in the car. Only took 10 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter313 Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 I think the shop might have flushed it. I hope I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatswhatshesaid Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Flush/drain-refill... huh? Is it really such a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter313 Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 It's been a while, so here's an update. Took the car into a shop with a good reputation and lots of Subaru experience here in SF. They took a look at it. Said they didn't see any engine damage from the overheating, Head gasket looks fine, but they found several things that the original shop had done wrong. Starter ground wire left off, O2 sensor wire run wrong in such a way that it's been damaged, cam seals are leaking despite just being replaced. Oil pan gasket is overtightened and split, etc. . A myriad of idiotic mistakes. I called the GM at the original shop and faxed him all the paperwork for the other shops last Thursday, he said give him a couple of days to look it all over and he'd call me back on Monday. No response. I called him on Tuesday afternoon and asked someone to have him call me back, still no response. About to call up and threaten small claims. What are the chances that there's engine damage from the overheat that they're not seeing on an inspection? The car has another problem that was existing previous to this fiasco that's gotten a lot worse in the last month. It sputters and feels like it's going to die when you accelerate in any manner other than gentle from a stop. The original shop did a fuel injection service and replaced the spark plugs said it could fix the problem. It didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 What are the chances that there's engine damage from the overheat that they're not seeing on an inspection? Pretty high with that engine. They can't inspect the main and rod bearings without complete dissasembly. They can speculate, do oil analysis for metal, etc..... but there's no good reliable way to check them. The car has another problem that was existing previous to this fiasco that's gotten a lot worse in the last month. It sputters and feels like it's going to die when you accelerate in any manner other than gentle from a stop. The original shop did a fuel injection service and replaced the spark plugs said it could fix the problem. It didn't. That's a problem that really needs to be addressed by someone with a PCM scanner that can drive it and look at the sensor data stream when it's "acting up". If there is no check engine light that accompany's this symptom then it's down to inspecting data streams and trying to respond accordingly. Reccomending a fuel injection service (which almost always accomplishes nothing) is foolish without doing the proper tests to narrow the scope of the search. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allpar Mod Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Anyone can suppose that there is no or little internal damage without a teardown. Even if these guys are, in fact, reputable and Soob experienced, with any engine, it's difficult to say with absolute certainty that any of the internals didn't suffer damage with what happened on your trip without a teardown. I do agree with how you have handled this situation so far. Adding a lawyer to the mix immediately would likely have created an air of adversity and ended any hope of settling things amicably from the start. Now, however, with the manager apparently dragging his heels, it might be time to either go that route or contact your attorney general's office in Sacramento and see if you can file a complaint against the shop. That's what we can do here and it's WAY more effective than going the BBB way which has no teeth. Also, now if it were me, I wouldn't accept anything less than a total refund of everything I spent on this car at any shop and even look into demanding damages. If you have to hire counsel, I'd go for attorney fees and damages definately. Make sure that you have every piece of documentation from every garage, ESPECIALLY the most recent one you went to which outlined all the steps the original shop did wrong. It's time for the gloves to come off. Think pit bull from here on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter313 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) Ugh, well the saga continues. Finally got a call back from the franchise GM today. went over the list of stuff that had been found wrong. He picked out a few things that they were clearly responsible for, disputed everything else. He says that his shop doesn't order the T-valves that the shop in Shasta found in my engine, so there's no way they could have done that. The problem I'm running into is that there's no documentation for a few of the biggest things that they did wrong. The broken power steering happened after I had picked up the car, and when I brought it back in, they didn't put it into their computer or give me a receipt, they just worked on it right then and there, so I have no documentation to support this. The thermostat is almost the same issue, they were doing it as I was trying to pick up the car, and didn't put it on the invoice or anything, so there's no documentation of it on any of the paperwork from the original shop. I do have the thermostat itself though, I wonder if I could somehow backtrace a serial number to show that it was sold to Midas at that time, or is that just crazy? Edited January 31, 2011 by jporter313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter313 Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Ok, well, small claims time. Any of you guys live in SF and would be willing to take a look at my car and testify in small claims court as to the shoddy work they did and how it could have caused the problems we experienced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steves72 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Talk to a local attorney even if you plan to go the small claims court route. The attorney may cost you a half hour to one hour of their time but the information offered would be invaluable. Talk to one who specializes in consumer affairs / product liability. Or, call the local law board and ask which type of lawyer you need to call. When you go you will be on the clock, so have all your questions written out so you can limit your bill. As to a witness, you must have a certified mechanic. The mechanic will not be interested in spending his time at a court house. So, a written statement is usually sufficient for such courts but that is where the attorney's advise is needed. Good luck, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter313 Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Thanks Steve. I'll check into a consult with a lawyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj7135 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) How can You condemn an engine so quickly?? Are you kidding me? You have some kinda shares in this engine design? The EJ25D is the worst engine for reliability in Subaru has ever made. Also, any Subaru mechanic (and I mean a mechanic that works on Subarus, not the dealership mechanics as I've seen a lot of them that dont know $hit) would tell you that those are symptoms of INTERNAL HG failure. That's why you're leaking oil, and that's also why you can't see the coolant leaking (internally). If my wheel is vibrating, then i get a flat tire, then i notice the tire's bald, then i notice a bulge in it, I'm not going to say to the tire people "How can you condemn a tire so quickly?" They'd tell you to get out of their shop, and I think I would tell you the same on this topic. 1. The head gaskets are blown. Just assume that. 3. The best recourse for you is to find a reputable Subaru shop and have them install a good used '95 to '98 EJ22 w/EGR (from an automatic). The engine you have IS a money pit at this point and is questionable from lots of cooks in the kitchen and too much overheating. It is also an expensive engine to maintain and repair. Dump it and get the vastly more reliable and cheaper to maintain EJ22. You will lose about 30 HP but it's worth it for the reliable engine. Agreed and Agreed. Hard to believe all this madness wasn't stopped earlier. What General Disorder is saying is the right answer, go with that. Edited March 8, 2011 by cj7135 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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