Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Weird Transmission fluid level issue. MPG issues?


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 subaruplatt

subaruplatt

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 320 posts
  • Toronto

Posted 12 January 2011 - 07:36 PM

Had the oil and filter changed by Jiffy Lube today.
They were unable to read a transmission level and
they were unable to source the Recommended fluid.
06 automatic impreza wagon.
Subaru ATF Type-HP
IDEMITSU ATF HP
Castrol Transmax J
Pennzoil ATF J
Any how they topped it up with QUAKER STATE MULTI-VEHICLE ATF part# 160026
http://www.hollonoil....te/QSMVATF.pdf and changed the filter (generic) .
Almost 4 litres added but they massively overfilled it.
This got me home tonight from Brantford to Toronto.
The guys think that the filter had a crushed seal, which developed into a slow leak.
The guy claimed that it wouldn't be a leak one could see on the floor of the garage as the filter was actually above where the oil sits at rest or wouldn't actually leak until one was under way on the road.
The transmission worked fine before and after.
If I could notice anything I might say I noticed more of an all wheel drive feel with a more noticeable rear wheel input ( but it is snowy and slippery out ).
This winter I noticed some of my worst fuel economy ever.
And I wrote it up to air density and more alcohol in the fuel, my right foot etc.
But I wunder could this be a cause? Could low transmission fluid levels effect fuel economy?
Going to get front mid and rear fluids changed at the dealer tomorrow.
Will check trans levels regularly in the future.

Edited by subaruplatt, 20 January 2011 - 02:50 PM.
more accurate


#2 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,281 posts
  • Portland

Posted 12 January 2011 - 08:09 PM

If the transmission were slipping then it could affect MPG, yes. That could be the difference you feel.

Not good to run the ATF out of the auto's. Slipping of any kind (for whatever reason) can lead to accelerated wear. Hope no permanent damage was done.

I wouldn't worry about the front diff gear oil or the rear diff gear oil - those rarely need to be changed. There's no combustion products to break them down and I've seen subaru diffs easily go 300k on the factory gear oil fill. That's just not an issue. I would take it to the dealer but focus on the ATF only. Don't worry about the gear oil except to check the level.

GD

#3 subaruplatt

subaruplatt

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 320 posts
  • Toronto

Posted 12 January 2011 - 09:48 PM

Not sure the guy there new the difference between subaru autos and manuals.
I asked him if the automatic transmission and the tail 5 disc awd clutch pack share the same fluid and he didn't know.
Then he said the tail had a discrete oil.
I think he was wrong, probably why transmission fluid is J rated as it has to do double duty as a trans fluid while also resisting the intence sheering from the AWD clutch pack.

#4 NorthWet

NorthWet

    Eeyore Incarnate

  • Members
  • 5,039 posts
  • Bremerton, WA

Posted 12 January 2011 - 11:22 PM

Edit: The following is incorrect. Please ignore and follow the following post by ShawnW. endedit
Regular Dextron ATF is used. The AWD pack is no different from any of the other clutch packs in the automatic.

Edited by NorthWet, 13 January 2011 - 01:08 AM.


#5 ShawnW

ShawnW

    Subaru Master Technician

  • Administrator
  • 12,941 posts
  • Denver, Colorado

Posted 12 January 2011 - 11:36 PM

Regular Dextron ATF is used. The AWD pack is no different from any of the other clutch packs in the automatic.


Sorry but this is wrong. He listed the correct fluids. I am certified by Subaru on transmissions both auto and manual up to 2009.

They put in a fluid that they shouldn't have put in. Now you really should have the trans flushed, at a dealer, to get it all 100% Subaru HP fluid. It may be hard to find a dealer that has a dedicated flush machine or is willing to do this but this is the absolute best fix. Also, get their JUNK AT filter off your car and frankly, stop using Jiffy Lube. I have seen more screw ups by quick lube places on Subarus than I care to count.

#6 bstone

bstone

    Certified Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 806 posts
  • Falls Village, CT

Posted 13 January 2011 - 12:03 AM

+1 for never using jiffy lube. If you continue to use them you'll need a new transmission in a jiffy.

#7 NorthWet

NorthWet

    Eeyore Incarnate

  • Members
  • 5,039 posts
  • Bremerton, WA

Posted 13 January 2011 - 01:07 AM

Sorry but this is wrong. He listed the correct fluids. I am certified by Subaru on transmissions both auto and manual up to 2009...

I am OK with being corrected.:) I had assumed that the change to different ATF was more recent.

#8 subaruplatt

subaruplatt

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 320 posts
  • Toronto

Posted 13 January 2011 - 11:58 AM

Ok so here is where I am now.
This morning I went promptly to Marino s to have trans fluid replaced.
They didn't have the infuser or flushing machine and admitted that their normal service was to drain and fill. 89$ probably plus parts.

I wanted to get it flushed so I bought 10 litres of subaru ATF hp, a filter and headed out to get a flush. This cost aprox 150$

Called jiffy lube on Dundas and Royal York.
They refused to touch the car after I told them my story.
Called Brantford Jiffy lube and was told that fluid was OK, I mean what were they supposed to say.
I said to Toronto Jiffy lube not to worry that I had 10 litres of fluid a filter etc.
They wouldn't budge and insisted that they might be implicated if there was a transmission failure further on.
I realize now they didn't want type J fluids contaminating there normal systems.


They referred me to AMMACO on StClair and Runnymede.
I show up at AMMACO and they agree to exchange the fluid.
They say they can do it manually but I might need a total of 13 litres to do a proper flush.
Mechanic says it is better to do a drain and fill and that even with the infuser or flushing machine the fluid in the torque converter doesn't get exchanged and the new fluid merely bypasses it. Essentially new fluid ends up getting exchanged.
Downtown Subaru service tech confirms this notion about about old fluid remaining in the torque converter, even when flushed.

They were able add about 4.5 litres after the drain and put on a subaru filter
for wich they charged me 125$. Remember I brought the fluid and filter myself and had I known I would have done a service at Subaru for less.
So I was able to replace 1/2 of the 9.3 - 9.6 litres a dry fill would take.

I plan on doing a drain and fill again at my next oil change. I have 5.5 litres left.
Called the guy in Brantford ( jiffy Lube ) and got a part number of the ATF fluid that got added. QUAKER STATE MULTI-VEHICLE ATF part# 160026
http://www.hollonoil...ate/QSMVATF.pdf

He disputed that the flushing would not flush the torque converter notion.

Sorry for this long and tedious thread, it's almost noon I need a drink:drunk:

Attached Files


Edited by subaruplatt, 20 January 2011 - 02:58 PM.
more accurateand you can use dex III but only for a temp top up


#9 subaruplatt

subaruplatt

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 320 posts
  • Toronto

Posted 13 January 2011 - 12:08 PM

PS: The transmission is shifting beautifully and is running more transparently than ever. I feel that I'm on the right track now and I hope that by writing this post I am helping others.:burnout:

#10 subaruplatt

subaruplatt

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 320 posts
  • Toronto

Posted 13 January 2011 - 12:23 PM

Found the transmission fluid on sale at Wall Mart! it is labeled, Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle ATF.
http://www.subaruout...aft-canada.html
http://www.castrol.c....s_ImportMV.pdf

#11 subaruplatt

subaruplatt

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 320 posts
  • Toronto

Posted 13 January 2011 - 03:35 PM

I am OK with being corrected.:) I had assumed that the change to different ATF was more recent.

After 95 you need the J type stuff.

#12 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,281 posts
  • Portland

Posted 13 January 2011 - 04:10 PM

'95?!?! Everything I've read says Dexron II/III/IIIE (II on some of the older stuff but III is compatible with II) till like mid-'05 when the 5EAT came out (which takes the HP lubricant). They went to the HP on everything for simplicity I think more than anything. The 4EAT has been using regular Dexron for most of it's production life though.

GD

#13 subaruplatt

subaruplatt

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 320 posts
  • Toronto

Posted 20 January 2011 - 03:19 PM

I am beginning to suspect that all there ever was in my transmission was dextron III. I will never know for sure.

The shifts are the smoothest I remember them ever being. In city driving I see RPMS floating in stages between 1250 and 1750:clap:
Feels like one big gear most of the time instead of what it used to be like wich was as if the automatic was doing a really poor imitation of a manual .
Anyhow I am relieved to know that dex3 can be used as a top up, and that I didn't really mess things up after all.

Will drain and refill once again with HD fluids at next oil change. I will also be checking this level more often from now on!

Edited by subaruplatt, 20 January 2011 - 03:26 PM.


#14 Rooster2

Rooster2

    Subaru Master

  • Members
  • 3,753 posts
  • Indianapolis

Posted 20 January 2011 - 03:50 PM

Glad to read that you are happy now with your trany. I have never been too particular on the ATF that I put in my Subies. As long as the label said Dextron or Dextron equiv or compatible, I would use it. Never have had any problems over the years.

#15 ShawnW

ShawnW

    Subaru Master Technician

  • Administrator
  • 12,941 posts
  • Denver, Colorado

Posted 20 January 2011 - 07:03 PM

Glad to read that you are happy now with your trany. I have never been too particular on the ATF that I put in my Subies. As long as the label said Dextron or Dextron equiv or compatible, I would use it. Never have had any problems over the years.


And that is fine up to 2004. After that you have to be careful what you put in.

#16 subaruplatt

subaruplatt

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 320 posts
  • Toronto

Posted 24 January 2011 - 11:24 AM

Lying in bed last night I had an epiphany!
I finally figured out what probably happened.
I am assuming now that the technician might have mistakenly drained the transmission oil pan thinking it was the oil drain plug!

I distinctly remember seeing red fluid on the tip of the stick the first time it was checked but then I remember that 5 to 10 minutes later the guy checked it again and again unable to read fluid on the dip stick.
They were taking too long changing the oil, and seemed confused. There was a period of unexplained in activity where I assume they built their whole cover story, it evolved organically.
I assume that at least one person knows the truth but I can only guess.
Someone probably made up the story about the filter having a crushed gasket which caused the mysterious leak.

Weird I even remember looking under the car and peaking at an idle tech who then looked sheepishly back at me. He was waiting for a solution and I was waiting to leave.
They hummed and hawed but then decided that DEXIII fit the minimum criteria as a top up solution, which it did. I didn't dare drive without fluid reading on the dipstick.
They pulled a generic filter out of somewhere ; I think they had it delivered.



They made no reference to any transmission related service on the bill whatsoever, which I thought is also kinda fishy.

So I had a drain and fill with dexIII drove 120 KM had another drain and fill with subaru HD. By my reckoning I now have aprox 3/4 subaru fluids.
I'm getting another drain and fill with HD tomorrow and going to have them give it the once over for leaks.

:banghead:

Edited by subaruplatt, 24 January 2011 - 01:53 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users