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Crank but will not start


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50 replies to this topic

#1 iransom

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 12:18 AM

I have a 1992 Legacy. Its automatic. Last Thursday it stalled on me in traffic. It had gas in it. As i tried to start it, it would crank but not start. I had to have it towed. Today, I used a test light on the coil and got no light on the two outside wires. We changed out the ignition coil and the igniter but with the same results. Now we are looking for the fuel pump relay but cant find it. Can someone provide the location for the fuel pump relay and any other ideas would be of great assistance.

#2 Fairtax4me

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 12:44 AM

Did you check for spark? Or just poke around with a test light?
The simplest things first. Check all the fuses, in the main fuse box under the hood as well as under the dash.

#3 Cougar

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 01:40 AM

There should be power on the yellow wire to the coil with the ignition switch on. If there isn't then check fuse 16 in the dash fuse panel and make sure voltage is getting to both sides of the fuse. If that is ok then there is a break in the wire to the coil.

#4 iransom

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 08:36 AM

Thanks for your reponses. We check for sparks but no sparks. The ignition coil and igniter came from a 1992 Subaru Legacy at the salvage with 274000 miles. I am going to take the coil to autozone for testing and is there a way to test the igniter? Could this also be the fuel pump relay going bad?Thanks for your responses.

#5 EastCoastEJ22T

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 09:14 AM

My guess is the Crank Position Sensor. Without it there will be no signal sent to innitiate the spark.

#6 iransom

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 11:09 AM

I removed a hose from the fuel filter and tried cranking the car and plenty of fuel came out. So, this should let me know that the fuel pump and fuel pump relay is working properly. Please confirm. Also, where is the crank position sensor?

#7 Cougar

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 11:58 AM

It sounds like the fuel pump is ok. The crank sensor is mounted above the crank sprocket on the front of the engine.

Did you check the voltage on the yellow wire going to the coil as I stated in my earlier post? If battery voltage isn't getting to that point there isn't much use in checking other areas for trouble.

#8 iransom

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 03:26 PM

I conducted an ignition coil test using a digital multimeter on the three-terminal connector from the coil. Terminal 1 & 2 I got a reading of 1.2 and for terminal 2 & 3 I got a reading of 1.1. Haynes manual recommended 0.63 to 0.77. Could this also be a cranshaft sensor problem? A few times recently while driving on the hwy it was hard to accelerate and almost stalled.

#9 Fairtax4me

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 03:41 PM

Could be the crank sensor. You can check that with an Analog multimeter if you have one. There is a resistance check for the CPS but I don't recall the exact value off hand.
Have you verified there is 12V reaching the coil?

#10 Cougar

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 04:25 PM

Looking for a problem with the ignition system without first testing for voltage getting to the coil is akin to looking for a fuel system problem on a car with an empty fuel tank.

#11 iransom

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 05:21 PM

:DI have a test light and a digital multimeter. Please describe how I would check for the 12 volts from the battery to this yellow cable and where is this cable located. Is it the small three pin cable that plugs into the ignition coil cable? So I need to have the ignition on but not trying to crank it. I checked fuse #16 (ignition) and it was in good condition.

#12 Fairtax4me

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 05:51 PM

:DI have a test light and a digital multimeter. Please describe how I would check for the 12 volts from the battery to this yellow cable and where is this cable located. Is it the small three pin cable that plugs into the ignition coil cable? So I need to have the ignition on but not trying to crank it. I checked fuse #16 (ignition) and it was in good condition.


Unplug the wire harness connector at the coil. Turn the ignition to ON and probe the pin on the yellow wire for 12V with your multimeter. Ground the meter to one of the mounting screws for the coil.

If you have 12V you can move on to the CPS.
It looks like you can check the CPS with a digital meter set to AC volts. Probe the pins on the sensor while cranking the engine and look for voltage to bounce around under the 2.0v range. You should have 0.1v minimum. If you get nothing that way use an analog meter and try to get a reading. If still nothing the sensor is bad, or the reluctor ring on the crankshaft is damaged or covered in metal shavings.


edit: This link my be of some help. http://www.main.expe...u_manual_scans/
Has the FSM for 90-94 Legacy.

Edited by Fairtax4me, 23 January 2011 - 05:57 PM.


#13 iransom

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 08:01 PM

I did the reading and I got a 11.74 voltage from the yellow or middle pin on the cable from the battery. The two end pins gave no reading. How can I tell if the igniter is bad? I got it from the salvage yard.

#14 Cougar

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 08:10 PM

Ok, so the coil is getting power. The next thing to check is to see what codes may be active. Have you checked them yet for clues to the trouble?

#15 Fairtax4me

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 08:37 PM

I did the reading and I got a 11.74 voltage from the yellow or middle pin on the cable from the battery. The two end pins gave no reading. How can I tell if the igniter is bad? I got it from the salvage yard.

I don't think you can test the ignitor. But the FSM mentions you can check for voltage variation at the Ignitor connector Pins 1 & 2 (the two closest to the Firewall) while cranking.

#16 iransom

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 04:58 AM

Is there a way to manually check the codes? If so please provide the steps. I was told that the code reader for the year of my car 1992 is expensive. Is it possible to rent one? I will check with the different auto parts stores today. The area where the crankshaft sensor is located is covered with debris. Could this affect that part? Thanks for your responses.
Info only: My car has over 234000 miles and the timing belt was replaced last year.

#17 logic23

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 07:41 AM

To tell if a coil is getting the correct signal to fire you can (most of the time) check the fuel injectors for pulse. They get their signal from the same sensor (crank sensor) 9 out of 10 times if you have pulse at the fuel injector plug them the coil is getting the signal to fire.
To test pulse at an injector you unplug one injector ( it doesn't matter which one) and use a test light touch the pointy end to one of the wires and the alligator clip + a small wire to the other.
have some one crank the car and the test light should pulse. if not you have bad wiring or a bad crank sensor or worst case a bad computer ( the computer is what grounds the coil and fule injectors to get them to fire)

#18 Cougar

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 11:39 AM

Here is some good info on the subject that should help you in finding the trouble. In the troubleshooting sequence we dertermined the coil was getting voltage but not the ignitior so that should be done.

http://www.northursa...al/ignition.pdf


There is a way to read the code errors directly from the ECU. Here is a link that should help you do that.

http://www.troublecodes.net/Subaru/

Edited by Cougar, 24 January 2011 - 12:03 PM.


#19 iransom

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 05:24 PM

How do I manually turn the motor to conduct a crankshaft position sensor test?

#20 Cougar

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 07:41 PM

Just use the starter motor to turn the engine over.

#21 iransom

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 07:58 PM

I finally got the codes read which is something I should have done at first. The only code given was 13 which is the camshaft sensor. I could not locate the green and black connecters so I disconnected a white connector and it gave me the code. Next the salvage yard for the part.

#22 Cougar

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 08:40 PM

Before getting into any serious hunt for electrical troubles it pays to check the power getting to the faulty area and for any trouble codes. It can save a lot of time and effort. Hopefully a new sensor will get you going again.

#23 iransom

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 07:05 PM

I went to the junk yard and got a used camshaft sensor and the car is still having the same problem crank but no start. Is this a part that I should buy new? How can I test the cam sensor?

#24 johnceggleston

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 07:54 PM

i'm not sure you read the codes correctly.

you need to do it the way it is called for. if you did not see the connectors , green and black, you were looking in the wrong area under the dash.

i think josh, legacy777 (?? i can't remember if this is correct, please help) has a picture.

look under the dash again, mine are in between the steering column and the center console.

this may help: http://www.ultimates...reen connector*

gl

Posted Image

Edited by johnceggleston, 27 January 2011 - 07:59 PM.


#25 Cougar

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:50 PM

You stated earlier that you have a code 13 error code which means a problem with the crank sensor or the circuit to it, not the cam sensor. If you replaced the cam sensor it was the wrong one. Also in all this effort if you haven't checked for a broken timing belt so far I suggest you do that.




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