Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Timing belt idler bearing diagnosis EJ22


  • Please log in to reply
57 replies to this topic

#26 Luvn737s

Luvn737s

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 120 posts
  • Ahwatukee, AZ

Posted 07 February 2011 - 10:37 AM

When the engine is out, why not drill a few holes through the workbench to match the holes on the back of the crank where the flexplate attaches (make a paper template and transfer to the benchtop), lay the engine face up on the bench, insert the proper threaded bolts long enough to go through the bench and into the flexplate holes and torque the crankbolt to 130ft-lbs? I drilled holes in my bench to match the bellhousing attach points and did all my torquing that way. Very handy. Lay another top over the one you've drilled into after you're done.

#27 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,186 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 07 February 2011 - 12:43 PM

When the engine is out, why not drill a few holes through the workbench


easier to buy a 24'' long piece of flat steel and 2 longer bolts that thread into the crank. drill 2 holes on the steel bolt it to the back of the crank and presto you can torque away. works for removing and installing and you don't have to move the engine around as much.

but the impact wrench is way easy. just hard to measure the torque.

#28 Redhat

Redhat

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Hartford

Posted 07 February 2011 - 04:13 PM

I'll back the crank bolt off tomorrow and apply blue locktight and torque to 80lbs or more if I can get it. I guess I'll have to figure out how to keep the HB from turning. Do the cam pulleys also need this treatment? I just put them on with several good cranks from a 16 in breaker bar while holding the crank bolt with another breaker bar to keep everything from turning. I'm also interested in what the homemade tool looked like that was used to keep the HB from turning. The engine is not out of the car so there's no clearance for an impact gun. Thanks again.

#29 davebugs

davebugs

    I don't "friend"

  • Members
  • 3,112 posts
  • Pittsburgh suburbs (NE)

Posted 07 February 2011 - 05:51 PM

Here is a link to the tool.

If this doesn't work try and figure out how to get to my photo album here.

These pics are for a 2.2 tool. The only 2.5 tool I had made has a long handle welded to it. I had a few of these 2.2 one made figuring they were easier to mail.


You can try a screwdriver or similar stuck into the litlte window (where you installed the Torque Converter bolts into.

ANy way you look at it the fans are probably gonna have to come back out.

Sme folks clain to use allen wrenches and cobble something together. That approach just wasn't for me. Not even with the engine out, and nu way with the engine in there. I probably do 150-200 lbs on mine.

Subaru has a tool with a handle - I wanna say 200 bucks.

I sold a few of these for 40. I don't know if I still have the original prototype made with an old jack handle, a large washer, then pins welded. The pins needed "customized" after each use.

If you don't come up with a good solution let me know. I'll look again. I think this is my last tool so I don't wanna sell it, but we may be able to work something out for you to use it.

I knew were this was then I started to clean up. It never made it to the upper garage and hung back up. That was 6 months ago.

Now I'm buried in tax stuff - meet with the accountant wed.


An attempt at the photo album section with the tool.
http://www.ultimates...php?albumid=169

#30 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,186 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 07 February 2011 - 06:42 PM

I'll back the crank bolt off tomorrow and apply blue locktight and torque to 80lbs or more if I can get it.


80 ft lbs is not enough. you need 125 minimum.

#31 Redhat

Redhat

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Hartford

Posted 07 February 2011 - 06:51 PM

Thanks Dave, I got the pics. The tool looks well made... maybe 3/16in plate with pins welded.. Is the square for a 1/2in drive? A neighbor has a torque wrench I can use so I'll see how much I can get on it. What about this.. I was thinking.. just put a bunch of blue locktite on it and crank to whatever I can get. Would the heat of the motor make the locktite irrelevant..? I'm going to see what I've got to weld up this tool. I know what you mean by having to customize. Thanks again.

#32 Redhat

Redhat

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Hartford

Posted 07 February 2011 - 06:58 PM

"80 ft lbs is not enough. you need 125 minimum."

Thanks John. I'm going to see what I can do in the morning. Try to make one of Dave's spanner wrenches. Will post an update.

#33 davebugs

davebugs

    I don't "friend"

  • Members
  • 3,112 posts
  • Pittsburgh suburbs (NE)

Posted 07 February 2011 - 07:22 PM

Thanks Dave, I got the pics. The tool looks well made... maybe 3/16in plate with pins welded.. Is the square for a 1/2in drive? A neighbor has a torque wrench I can use so I'll see how much I can get on it. What about this.. I was thinking.. just put a bunch of blue locktite on it and crank to whatever I can get. Would the heat of the motor make the locktite irrelevant..? I'm going to see what I've got to weld up this tool. I know what you mean by having to customize. Thanks again.


The tool will be hard to make until you get the old one off - too hard to get the pins aligned to the holes.

Yea I believe he did make it for 1/2" breaker bar.

But you see the general idea. Those pins on this were actually machined on these at the end. Folks here didn't wanna spend 40 bucks plus shipping so I didn't have more than a few made.

If you can get by with 2 or 3 pins they'll be easier to line up.

#34 Luvn737s

Luvn737s

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 120 posts
  • Ahwatukee, AZ

Posted 07 February 2011 - 11:34 PM

Would it be feasible to torque the crank bolt as far as you can and then drive it to the Subaru dealer and have them torque it properly( assuming it's not a 2 hour drive or something). A tool might be nice, but how many times are you really gonna use it?

#35 davebugs

davebugs

    I don't "friend"

  • Members
  • 3,112 posts
  • Pittsburgh suburbs (NE)

Posted 08 February 2011 - 08:09 AM

Thats a thought.

But the dealer's folks are gonna be a little miffed that they didn't get the job to do in the first place. Will have to remove the fans and tighten bolt.

Probably won't want to by sighting liability issues.

If nothing else I'd bet you're gonna have lots of wait time and enough $ tied up that it'd be worth buying the tool. Seriousely - they aren't gonna want to clean up someone else's work. Especially when they lost out on the $ of doing the job.

Can't hurt to ask. Just don't see it as a real possibility.

#36 Redhat

Redhat

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Hartford

Posted 08 February 2011 - 03:30 PM

Well.. I made a makeshift spanner wrench with plate steel and two bolts on 3in centers that I got to fit into the harmonic balancer and cranking with a 16in breaker bar, I managed to pull pretty hard and did move the bolt one good squeak before bending the jig to pieces. I wonder how much torque is generated with a 16in bar pulling maybe 70-80 lbs. It did require removing the fan but overall wasn't too much trouble and I would do it again if you guys think I need to.. but I'd have to figure out a better jig.

#37 davebugs

davebugs

    I don't "friend"

  • Members
  • 3,112 posts
  • Pittsburgh suburbs (NE)

Posted 08 February 2011 - 03:43 PM

Now that's a tough call.

It's tighter than it was for sure.

But you won't know if it's tight enough until it's too late (and the harmonic balancer starts wobbling). To see what happens I had some pics in one of my photo albums here about one that we fixed (had a friend help on that one with the welding and such).

My first tool needed "tweaked" between uses as well because it would bend a little. Those ones I had the machine shop make seemed to work better due to no or little warpage.

If you're friendly with your dealer perhaps you could borrow their wrench? Even if you had to leave a deposit? I could see that happenning before they would do the job themselves.

Then again - it could be tight enough. Hard to tell from here. I use a longer breaker bar I believe or impact. The Snap-on BB I use can be used to loosen the crank bolt. By that I mean it barely reaches to the subframe over by the battery. And I'm 235 lbs. But I've never had one come loose.

Tough call.

#38 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,186 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 08 February 2011 - 04:38 PM

70 - 80 lbs at 16" is equal to ~90 - 100 ft lbs. but since your 70 -80 is just a guess is does not mean much.

to hold the crank, there is hole in the bell housing on each side half way down, that will fit a bolt or a screw driver. slip it in and use it to lock the flex plate in place. then you can torque away. borrow a torque wrench, you will be much happier if you are sure.

#39 Redhat

Redhat

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Hartford

Posted 08 February 2011 - 05:36 PM

"to hold the crank, there is hole in the bell housing on each side half way down, that will fit a bolt or a screw driver. "

Okay, just for me to be clear.. the harmonic balancer I'm looking at has four holes plus one that's not part of the four pattern. I should be able to stick a screwdriver or bolt through one of these holes and rotate the crank till the bolt finds a corresponding hole on the engine (actually it's the oil pump that's on the back side of the HB) this will stop the HB/ crank from turning so I can tighten her up ..am I getting this right.. thanks again

#40 davebugs

davebugs

    I don't "friend"

  • Members
  • 3,112 posts
  • Pittsburgh suburbs (NE)

Posted 08 February 2011 - 05:43 PM

He's talking about something else. And I don't recall seeing what John is referring to on both sides giving access and too lazy to put on winter clothes and go up and actually look at an engine.

DON'T STICK ANYTHING the whole way through the harmonic balancer. At the least you'll ruin the TB cover. You could also harm the belt, oil pump, etc.

I know there is an access whole I believe I already mentioned. At the eng/trans behind the #3 intake where you put the torque converter bolts in for an automatic. Some folks stick a long screw driver, pry bar, etc in there. If you take that route I'd likely try and get a friend to hold it to make sure it doesn't slip as you apply serious torque onthe crank bolt.

#41 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,186 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 08 February 2011 - 05:47 PM

"to hold the crank, there is hole in the bell housing on each side half way down, that will fit a bolt or a screw driver. "

Okay, just for me to be clear.. the harmonic balancer I'm looking at



NO.

the hole i'm talking about is on the engine bell housing at the rear of the engine where it meets the trans. either side of the engine , half way down in the 9 oclock or the 3 oclock position. slip in the screw driver and rotate the engine with your breaker bar untill you feel the screw driver catch. 90 degrees or less should do it. once it catches you can then work on the crank bolt.

ideally you should use a fatter rather than thinner screw driver. you don't want it to bend.

#42 Redhat

Redhat

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Hartford

Posted 08 February 2011 - 05:48 PM

Oops.. now that I reread your post about the bell housing holes, I realize my mistake. The bell housing is on the back of the motor and covers the fly wheel.. as I understand.. so I should be able to get in their between the fire wall and find a few holes.. one on either side half way up.. and stick a screwdriver or bolt in.. do I have to turn the crank to get it to match up with something.. two person job.. am I going to hurt something by cranking on this connection.. does this make a bit more sense.. thanks

#43 Redhat

Redhat

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Hartford

Posted 08 February 2011 - 05:51 PM

OK.. I see what you mean.. can you get at these holes from the top of the motor.. or do you have to get underneath..

#44 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,186 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 08 February 2011 - 06:10 PM

OK.. I see what you mean.. can you get at these holes from the top of the motor.. or do you have to get underneath..


from the top, but the plastic air intake may need to be moved.

first find the hole.

then slip in a screw driver. if you put your breaker bar on the crank bolt you should be able to rotate the engine with your right hand and work the screw driver with your left. (when on the passenger side.) when you feel it catch, work it in until you lock it up. again, bigger is better on the screw driver.

check it out and get back.

#45 Redhat

Redhat

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Hartford

Posted 08 February 2011 - 06:20 PM

10-4.. will do. What is the screwdriver locking into.. flywheel teeth..? etc... am I going to hurt anything by cranking on the screwdriver connection?

#46 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,186 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 08 February 2011 - 06:42 PM

10-4.. will do. What is the screwdriver locking into.. flywheel teeth..? etc... am I going to hurt anything by cranking on the screwdriver connection?


the flex plate bolts usually. there isn't a lot of room in there and there are 4 flex plate to torque converter bolts. the screw driver should catch on the bolt or the contours of the flex plate at the bolt.

the ej22 flex plate has a smaller diameter than the ej25 but you should still be able to find a ''catch''. any catch will do. see below and find a ''catch''. this pic even shows a screwdriver in the hole.

(thanks, google images)


Posted Image

Edited by johnceggleston, 08 February 2011 - 06:49 PM.


#47 davebugs

davebugs

    I don't "friend"

  • Members
  • 3,112 posts
  • Pittsburgh suburbs (NE)

Posted 08 February 2011 - 07:46 PM

Wow.

All the Subaru's I've done I never realized those holes in the side were there.

Never needed them, but didn't even realize they were there. I've had to see them, amazing.

Thanks for the pic.

#48 Redhat

Redhat

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Hartford

Posted 08 February 2011 - 08:11 PM

Great picture!! am I right in saying, the screwdriver goes through the aluminum bell housing and into a slot in the flex plate..? I wasn't clear about the bolt and contour you mentioned. Should you have to push the screwdriver in real far? When I put torque on the crank bolt, will it rotate the screwdriver up or down in the hole and start bending stuff.. cracking the bell housing.. sorry for all the questions.. just want to do it right the first time. I imagine it would be good to hold the screwdriver parallel while tightening the crank bolt.

#49 Crazyeights

Crazyeights

    Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 879 posts
  • PNW

Posted 08 February 2011 - 08:23 PM

I don't know if this would work on Subaru balancers or not but I keep a few old serpentine belts around for use as a strap wrench. Wind the belt around the grooves on the pulley 2 or 3 turns (the belt will fold over on itself - use an old belt) and hook it around the nearest thing that will hold it. Reverse to install. Sorry if I am way off base here. Obviously be careful of 2 part balancers so you don't twist the outer ring.

#50 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,186 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 08 February 2011 - 09:04 PM

Great picture!! am I right in saying, the screwdriver goes through the aluminum bell housing and into a slot in the flex plate..? I wasn't clear about the bolt and contour you mentioned. Should you have to push the screwdriver in real far? When I put torque on the crank bolt, will it rotate the screwdriver up or down in the hole and start bending stuff.. cracking the bell housing.. sorry for all the questions.. just want to do it right the first time. I imagine it would be good to hold the screwdriver parallel while tightening the crank bolt.


when you firsty insert the screw driver, it will hit the flex plate and stop, unless it happens to slip into one of the 12 openings in it, 4 holes, 4 small rectangular and 4 larger rectangular openings. rotate the crank with your breaker bar untill you feel an opening with the screw driver. when you feel one slip the screw driver in more. once in place you can let go.

torque away. use a torque wrench. 125 ft lbs, minimum, to 140 ft lbs.

more is better.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users