coach9 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I bought the legacy and my son blew the engine.I now have a choice put in a 2.2 used engine or a 2.5 that arrived and the front cam/timing belt cover has damage and I have heard that that could be a problem,is there away to check the cam/valves for damage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 You can pull the covers and check all of the timing marks. If everything is lined up, you could do a compression check or better yet a leak down check. If you do the compression check on a cold engine by hand, you will not get full pressure, but if you had a bent valve it would show up. I like the 2.2 swaps as there are very few HG problems comparied to the 2.5 from 96-99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach9 Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 Thanks for that info,if I go with the 2.2 what electronic changes do I have to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Thanks for that info,if I go with the 2.2 what electronic changes do I have to change. none!! you will have to use the flexplate / flywheel for the original trans and use the 2.5L ac bracket but that's it. really easy. you just have to weigh all the cost of the 2.2L engine against all the repairs of the 2.5L engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 If that engine was dropped or the car was wrecked there could be damage to the camshaft or bearing journals in the cylinder head. The cam rides directly in the head on these, no replaceable bearing, so any damage means replacing the entire head. There is also the possibility the crankshaft was struck in the same event that caused the other damage. Excessive force on the crankshaft can damage the thrust bearing, or score the main bearings which could result in catastrophic failure. I'd stay clear of the Phase 1 Ej25 anyway, moreso one that has accident damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach9 Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 Now we r talking,I have both engines sitting behind the car as we speak,I think I will go with 2.2 and sell the 2.5! Thank u so much for the info.:banana: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Make sure the original engine and the replacement have the same EGR configuration, EGR or No EGR. Otherwise you will have the CEL on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach9 Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 I think I can find the EGR but don't have a clue what the CEL is?Will need some help on that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I think I can find the EGR but don't have a clue what the CEL is?Will need some help on that one! CEL is abbreviation for "Check Engine Light." It is the dashboard idiot light that comes on, and stays on, while the car is being driven, when there is an engine malfunction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 If you can pull a engine, you can do the 22 swap. It's very easy, no electrical work needed! Only other thing you have to switch might be the AC bracket from the 2.5. Not all AC brackets are created equal. Do the head gaskets on the 22 before you swap it in! I didn't, and regretted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach9 Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 I have removed the 2 motor mount nut from the bottom, the exaust bolts,all the incidental wires hoses ext. what I need to know is there more then the 2 bolts at the top of the belhousing and 2 nuts at the bottom I see many more holes on the replacement engines but can find no other nuts or bolts,did i miss any Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Two top bolts, one is shared with the starter mount. Two bottom. And two locating pegs. They might be missing from your swap engine leaving un-threaded holes. You'll have to swap the pegs over, no bigger, vice grips pulls them out. It's an SUS, so it's an auto. Be sure you have all four torque converter bolts out, and then push the torque converter back away from the pressure plate so it doesn't come out with the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 if the sus has the phase 2 trans, (99 outbacks generally did, but not ALL) then there may be more bolts. the bell housing bolt pattern changed with the phase 2 trans. read the trans code on the bell housing at the starter. if it starts with TZ102Z then it is a phase 1 trans. if it starts with TZ1A............ then it is a phase 2 trans. but they are not hidden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach9 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 Thank gentlemen I will be back at it tomorrow arm with my new info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 If you can pull a engine, you can do the 22 swap. It's very easy, no electrical work needed! Only other thing you have to switch might be the AC bracket from the 2.5. Not all AC brackets are created equal. Do the head gaskets on the 22 before you swap it in! I didn't, and regretted it. I never do the 2.2 HG's and ALWAYS do the 2. 5 HG's personally. The odds of a 2.2 having HG issues is very low. I certainly "seal" the 2.2 - baffle plate, cam crank, Orings (those 2 skinny ones). Timing belt, idlers, WP are all up to you - I do it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I never do the 2.2 HG's and ALWAYS do the 2. 5 HG's personally. The odds of a 2.2 having HG issues is very low. I certainly "seal" the 2.2 - baffle plate, cam crank, Orings (those 2 skinny ones). Timing belt, idlers, WP are all up to you - I do it all. I put a 2.2 in, and it had a blown head gasket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I put a 2.2 in, and it had a blown head gasket rare. I hear you can do the 2.2's in the car but I always pull them. I've probably done I don't know - less than 50 but probably close to it 2.2 swaps and never did the HG's. Everything else like I said but no HG's. I have purchased a few 2.2's with traditional(non Subaru style) HG issues (blow white smoke) I'd say you were just lucky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 With my luck, I'm not surprised I heard you can do them in car too. Never done one before though, so I pulled. Glad I did. I'd have effed it up bad in car probably.. hah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I hear you can do the 2.2's in the car but I always pull them. I just did one in car. I'd probably pull the engine if I were doing both. You can only get about 45° at a time when tightening the head bolts with the engine in the car. Unless maybe you use a really short breaker bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I just did one in car. I'd probably pull the engine if I were doing both. You can only get about 45° at a time when tightening the head bolts with the engine in the car. Unless maybe you use a really short breaker bar. It would be really hard to turn a short breaker bar with the final torque. Especially the middle bolts... Those are tight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I didn't think they were that bad when tightening. Definitely would have been a chore with a shorter bar though. Getting the bolts loose was a job though. Felt like I was going to twist the bolt heads off. They all turned almost 45° before the threads cracked loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I didn't think they were that bad when tightening. Definitely would have been a chore with a shorter bar though. Getting the bolts loose was a job though. Felt like I was going to twist the bolt heads off. They all turned almost 45° before the threads cracked loose. I was terrified I was going to break something getting them loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach9 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 It now seems ro me upon further review and know success getting the engine to come loose that te engine needs to be moved forward in order to clear the bottom studs.Can someone tell me the proper method to pull one of these engines or point me to a thread on here that tells me how! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 It now seems ro me upon further review and know success getting the engine to come loose that te engine needs to be moved forward in order to clear the bottom studs.Can someone tell me the proper method to pull one of these engines or point me to a thread on here that tells me how! I'm having a hard time understanding that ... umm ... sentence? Are you having a hard time getting the engine separated from the tranny? Disconnect the pitch stopper, jack the transmission up high enough for the engine mount studs to clear the crossmember. DO NOT JACK THE TRANNY FROM THE PAN! Jack it from the front diff. Put pressure pulling up on the engine and give it hell. Hammer chisels, screwdrivers, etc into the bell housing crack to separate it. They get wicked stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach9 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 U figured out my nine fingered typing just fine so what ur saying is it need to be separated with some force! I am now thinking I should put a little tension on the motor also. I wasn't thinking I needed to do anything the trans or its supports,I will give ur suggestion a try THANK U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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