General chaos Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 the center wire on the coil pack plug has no power at all at any time. i cant give an answer about the tach moving or not. my wife was turning the key whiel i was outside looking at the engine. i would try it now. but i had to use the battery in another car so she could go to work. and i have no other battery here right now. i will check that when she gets home though. thanks for the tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzpile Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) GenC. Been a rough day but anyway your statement of 8v on fuze 16 with ignition OFF doesn't sound right/look right according to the basic schemos in Haynes. There is a large conn between the igniter and coil. 16 conns on one and 3 to coil. For there to sit 8v (to ground, I'm presuming)at fuze 16 something is backfeeding and diminishes your ignition voltage.So I went to anything which may apply. The charging system shows that there are two ways voltage could be on #16. It's going thru the charge indicator (which is your bulb and a diode From the alternator or directly coming out of your alternator on the yellow wire. This yellow is to be for 1990-94 which a 95 could be. It's not supposed to sitting there. i cannot totally say it shouldn't be there in microamps or knowing your meter. There is a lot of info about checking the alternator diodes which can fail open or Short. The other thing is that yellow wire( i can't do this often) it shows that between the alternator and the coil and fuse 16 there is a diode branching off it. That may go to ground and that may be hosed. Edited April 5, 2011 by Fuzpile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General chaos Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 back in december the alternator diodes went out on this alternator. and the brushes were alsp unevenly worn. i ordered new diodes and had then put in that day i got them. this was a very very easy job. i went ahead and ordered the brushes too. after i got the car going again. then before this crank pulley came loose. the battery was dying. and i took the car and the alternator off the car. to all four places in town. one of them said the diodes were bad again. the other places said they were good. at this time i put the new brushes in the alternator. and i then took off the negative battery cable and put a test light between the cable and the battery. the light came on. well the stupid sid emark lights/ position lights were on. so i turned those off. i think i bumped them while turning the key on. anyway i had no short after that. so i had a different battery. i put it in and the car was starting again without a jump start. then a few days later the crank pulley became loose. and now here i am . i know 8 volts doesnt sound good to me. i was unable to work on the car tonight. more urgent matters of making money had to be performed. it may be a few days before i get back to the car. the decision was made on sunday to let the car sit until we could get back to it. my other spare truck has a transmission problem. so i am going to concentrate on that starting tomorrow. but i may not do much tomorrow on the truck. and may have time to come back home before it gets too late and do some more testing on the elcetrical system. i did get to the library and looked at soem testing procedures ina mitchel manual which were basically copies of the subaru of america manual. but it was a 1992 book. and not a 93 book. it said to test the coil. i think they meant coil pack. but just from reading i am leaning towards a possible igniter problem. i am guessing really. it could be power before the igniter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzpile Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I expect it isn't quite buckled up yet. So buy a new belt.:-\ I've got one here from my '97 2.2 and it is in good shape. Somebody replaced it. then I didn't know jack about these cars and replaced it again. Pm me, I'll send it. We're getting towards this and there are some real minds here who know these cars to help with this. Some already want you to check this or that. They're thinkin. There are reasons to think that alternator is messed up. Sorry. Look, I'm just trying and not from complete ignorance as you aren't. I have less to juggle than you right now. Believe me You have friends here. this is a learning experience for us all and if we can nail it down to a damn diode then good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General chaos Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 i did go ahead and buy a new belt off ebay today. because it was super cheap and brand new. i may also go after that oil leak around the crank. i cleaned up the entire front of the engine as i was putting it all back together saturday. and while i was trying to start it up. more oil had ran down from that area. i really like how easy these cars are to work on. and my wife loves driving them. and this car has been so trouble free for so long. if this one ever goes to heck . we will probably buy another subaru. actually last week there was a right hand drive in omaha neb. with a bad transmission. if my wife would have drove it i may have bought it. or i could have bough it for a parts car. the engine bay was really clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Yellow wire at the coil is 12V + from the fuse panel. The Igniter gets it's power straight from the ECU. I don't know exactly which wire is power though off the top of my head, or what it should be. There is nothing in the car that should be getting 8v. It will be 12V from the battery, or ~5v if from the ECU. Check your battery connections and the lead wire that goes from the battery + to the bottom of the under hood fuse panel. There is a fusible link in there as well that may be partially burnt. Pull it out and tug on each end like you are trying to stretch it out. If it stretches and/or breaks it's bad and needs to be replaced. Crank and cam position sensors can be checked with an analog multimeter set to AC voltage. Look for the needle to jump in a pattern that corresponds with the teeth on the reluctor ring of the sprocket. There is also a resistance check that IIRC should be 3-4 ohms. Not 100% on that but it's a small number. If you get ∞ resistance obviously the sensor is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General chaos Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 new timing belt installed just to make sure. the tach does bonuce slightly as you crank the engine over. it bounces with the engine cranking. i knwo this mother is in time. i even took pictures to verify it before cranking the engine over. there is no other pace it can be timed to because of the tension of the new belt and putting the tensioner pulley on. i have even sprayed starting fluid in the intake. i dotn have anyone here so i cant check for spark rightnow. here are the pictures this is in time as far as i am concerned. it should atleast try to start even if it was a off just a hair. but i have nothing. also relieze that soem of these pictures are at a slight angle so they dont look exact. but they are in line. the only one i am curious about is the crank pulley but it does line up with the upper mark on the crank sensor housing. so that has to be right. s o is my problem still spark related? i cant check it until i get one else here to crank the engine while i test. By forman1 at 2011-04-08 By forman1 at 2011-04-08 By forman1 at 2011-04-08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General chaos Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 here is the meter i am using this is a test with key on and fuse numebr 16. i was wrong about the last test it wasnt a key off test. key off give nothing. i'm heading out to check the fuseable link inside of the fuse box on the fender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General chaos Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 well no i am mad. the fuseable link was fine. it ohmed out as good. when i pulled it turned off power to the beeper in the switch. when i plugged it back in after testign the beeper came back on. i had the key turned on still. ok so i was out of ideas. so i rolled the enigne over to top dead center again. and the timing was off again. the crank and drivers cam was in line but the passenger came was of by atleast two teeth from ling up the marks on the cam geag with the slots. so i am mad now. nothign what so ever could have kicked the belt out of place and let the cam gear get out of time. no rocks no debris. the tensioner was adjusted all the way out. &^$^%RE(&*%$# dang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General chaos Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 ok my wife is home. i reset the bel tonce again. it is back where it is suppose ot be at. when she cranked it over the tensioner moved. so that must have been what happened earlier. it is now staying in time where i set it at. now on the the no spark. i was able to check the yellow wire while cranking. it has no power coming through it at all. the other two wires from the igniter have power. it sisnt much. it gives up to 4 volts max and then drops to 3 volts. this is more than i was getting the other day. i got no volts at all the other day. now the yellow wire is suppose to have a diode in line going to the ecm. my conclusions are either thew ecm is blown from charging the battery or the igniter has failed. i dont know about that diode or where it is at in the wiring. of course a diode is a one way valve for electricity. so that wouldnt seem to be a problem to stopping it from starting. can i run start 12 volts from the battery to the yellow wire just before the coil pack to give it power and not fiy anything? also how do i nail down if it is the ecm or the igniter. wait i was messing around with the blower motor plug the other day. maybe i made the ecm plug loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 The belts can be tricky to get right. I use a 17mm wrench to turn the drivers side cam clockwise just a tooth or two, set the belt then pull the slack out by turning the wrench back CCW. When the belt pulls taught all the way around (back to the crank) and the mark lines up then you got it right. Check fuse number 16 in the dash board fuse panel. That gives power to the coil. The diode isn't in line between the fuse panel and coil. The diode is between the main relay and ECU. Your ~4V at the igniter is reference voltage from the ECU. We can call taht irrelevant for right now. It is a sign that the ECU is at least delivering power to the various sensors and electronics on the engine, but it doesn't mean much as far as the no spark problem is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General chaos Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 (edited) i took the crank sensor out and cleaned the grease off. that didnt do anyhtign. i didnt think it would after i seen it anyway. i have had dinner and have lights set up. here is where the crank sits when the cams are exactly at the mark. this is the best i think it can get. if it needs to go back half a tooth i dont know how it can be done for sure. and of course the stupid picture isnt in line . crap. its under the sensor. surely it doenst have to be directly dead center of the sensor does it. everything the marks line up. fuse 16 is still good. it only has 9 volts coming to it though. Edited April 9, 2011 by General chaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 No that's good. The tab does not sit directly center under the sensor when lined up properly. The little notch mark on the sensor housing is the timing mark. It is a few mm right of center. Your crank is lined up perfect there. 9V at rest is not nearly enough. What is your voltage at the battery posts at rest? Have you checked voltage while cranking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General chaos Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 ok well i have been putting the battery in and out fo the car for use in another car. so i got to thinking maybe the wire behind the battery werte broken or something. when i pulled the battery out. i found this yellow wire fallingout of the plug. i mashed down the crimpe a little tighter and it seems to kind of stay in the socket now. but that didnt do anything to help me. how do you check crank voltage? just test the battery while it cranks over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Several wires there appear to be pinched which means they could be broken internally. Check the smaller cable from comes from the battery terminal to the bottom of the main fuse panel under the hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General chaos Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 here is what i have done. i had the coil pack unplugged during the last few attempts to start it. so i plugged it back in and no start. i rechecked my fuse power and it is 8 or 9 volts depending on how the ground side is put onto the body. bare metal well gas pedal and the metal ecm beside the column. i have 13 volts in the battery. when i crank i tover the battery volts drop to 11.1 and bounce a little but in that area. but not real low. i saw a 10.6 for a second. i then took one of the grounds off of the shock tower and cleaned that up. i havent done the second one yet. what i am thinking is that when you lose power to a tail light and have low voltage it is usally a ground problem. now i just have to figure where my bad ground is. does that sound right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General chaos Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 i think i may stop for the night. i hope to have tiem tomorrow to get time to work on it. i have to return the borrowed car tomorrow afternnon at the latest. the core support ground was loose. i tightened it. i also cleaned and theother ground on the shock tower. i still am not getting a full 12 volts into fuse 16. since the battery is getting low again the voltage has now dropped to 8 volts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Ground problem is a possibility. DO you have low voltage on any other fuses? What about at the under hood fuse panel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 with all your cranking attempts, you will need to charge the battery with a charger. They are not that expensive to get a charger you will use it many times thru your lifetime. And you can loan it out for a fee to neighbors and it will pay for itself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General chaos Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 i checked on fuse inside the fuse panel and had nothing on that one at all. it was a 10 amp fuse in about the third row up from the bottom. i didnt check the outside fuses. but the fuseable link has power in and to the out side of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General chaos Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 i have three chargers that work. i was charging the battery earlier. but with all the attempts to start the car it ran the battery back down again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 i have three chargers that work. i was charging the battery earlier. but with all the attempts to start the car it ran the battery back down again. nice...The pict of the harness near the battery, it sort of looks like a yellow wire may have been smashed (broken) Your valve cover is very trashy looking, are you sure this motor was in running conditions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General chaos Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 it was running when parked two weeks ago. i changed the harmonic balancer and the timing belt. now no spark. yeah it leaks oil. that isn't a problem to cause power to the coil pack. i checked the yellow wire. it is fine it isn't broken. i pulled on it. a broken wire would give out no power at all. a slightly bad connection would give intermittent power. i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General chaos Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 so which is the engine ecm? the one beside the column or the one beside the glove box? i may go to the junkyard and try to get one. and maybe the ignitier. but i dotn think its the igniter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 so which is the engine ecm? the one beside the column or the one beside the glove box? i may go to the junkyard and try to get one. and maybe the ignitier. but i dotn think its the igniter. ECU is under the pass side carpet. Where your feet would rest on the uphill slant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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