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suspension questions


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66 replies to this topic

#26 xbeerd

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 08:33 PM

what you mean by Rubber Donuts? i dont have anythin that looks like a rubber donut??

other than the rubber parts that go on the top and bottom of the coil

#27 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:56 AM

...is THIS more what your spring looked like?

Posted Image

This would be the rear spring...


No, that is Not what I have.

My Tempo Coil Springs has not that Tiny Turn at their end; My Tempo Coil Springs came with Same Width and almost the Same Thickness than the Old Stock EA82 ones, but a Little bit more thick. Also the Tempo ones have two more Turns of a Thinner Measurement than the Rest of the Coil.


what you mean by Rubber Donuts? ...


I don't know their name on English so maybe I'm Lost in Translation.

The "Rubber Donuts" are some Round things shaped like Donuts that people Buy to gain some Tall on older / Weak Springs.


... i dont have anythin that looks like a rubber donut?? ...



Yes, Because those are Aftermarket.

When I Did the ER27 Engine Swap, on Year 2000, the Subie was Too Low due to a mix from Over Weighted engine and Weak old Springs; So as First instance Solution, I Purchased a Pair of Donuts.

Then those seemed to be Not enought to Handle the ER27 well... So I Traveled from my island to Capital City then, carring one of the Original Subaru Spring coils and by Comparison, I purchased the Tempo ones, because they had the Same Diameter than the Subaru ones but a Li'l bit more Thickness plus two turns more as explained above.

I Removed the Rubber Donuts when I Swapped the Tempo Springs from my 2.7 (now unengined) Wagon to my EA82 BumbleBeast.

I had not taken pics then, But I searched on my PC's Hard drive and Found an Age Old Photo of the Springs along the Rubber Donut mounted:


Posted Image


I'm not Sure if the Coil Spring there is the Subaru or the Tempo... is a Very Old Photo.

Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 03 November 2011 - 11:00 AM.


#28 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:04 AM

...that being said. im glad i wasted $60 on some ************ty front strut assemblies from a tempo/topaz, $65 on new replacement springs which i cant return because i chopped one up, 6-8 hours of my time driving around, cutting, assembling, dissassembling, reassembling something that most likely isnt going to work.

and another undetermined amount of time if i go and try to dissassemble some struts in a pick n pull by hand (i can use my air ratchet to turn down the spring compressors at home) or blow $70 on a new pair.

christ, all i want is for my damn front end to sit freakin' level.


Oh my God! ...

I had understood that you were going to return that springs to the store, since they were Different. :(

The whole situation makes me feel so sad, I just wanted to Help...

Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 03 November 2011 - 11:16 AM.


#29 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:08 AM

Well... as I said:

...
Or maybe the ones I obtained came from the First Gen Tempo; I have not enough information to Properly answer that, as I explained before.


Could the salesman sold me the First Gen Tempo Springs and gave me the Wrong info about their Year?

What I can do is Take one Strut out of my BumbleBeast and shoot some Photos of the Assembled Strut with the Tempo Coil Spring, so you could have a New Picture of it.

Kind Regards.


#30 xbeerd

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:22 AM

Oh my God! ...

I had understood that you were going to return that springs to the store, since they were Different. :(

The whole situation makes me feel so sad, I just wanted to Help...


LOL dont be sad. that was my choice to F myself out of the return of the new springs. I thought with the tempo spring seats it would suffice and eliminate the extra space. also i was hoping the tophat on the tempo strut would be able to be mated to the spinning part of the subaru strut in the effort. i was wrong oh well.

guy at the junkyard wants $50 for a pair of rear struts with springs, no one will separate them around here and sell the springs alone. for $50, i might as well just spend the extra money ($20) on new ones and not have to spend time breaking down the old rusty tempo struts.

at the end of all this i just want to have a clear, concise, and documented information of this process since the front springs are no longer being made.

#31 xbeerd

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:25 AM

Well... as I said:



Could the salesman sold me the First Gen Tempo Springs and gave me the Wrong info about their Year?

What I can do is Take one Strut out of my BumbleBeast and shoot some Photos of the Assembled Strut with the Tempo Coil Spring, so you could have a New Picture of it.

Kind Regards.


all the part numbers of available springs crossreference the same between 1st and 2nd Gen so i would rule that out.

i would love to see a pic of what its 'supposed' to look like. my bet is that its actually a rear coil.

Edited by xbeerd, 03 November 2011 - 11:29 AM.


#32 xbeerd

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:28 AM

the part that gets me the most is that whenever the topic comes up nobody bothers to answer, or just blows it off and tells a person to search.

well. so i search, and all i find is a bunch of threads about people asking for more info on the tempo spring install. which only seems to have info of people that have done it. but havent actually gone into any detail about the process.

unless i am blind, if there is a thread i'd be more than happy to look at it. (besides yours, which we'll update when this ordeal is figured out)

#33 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:58 AM

...i would love to see a pic of what its 'supposed' to look like. my bet is that its actually a rear coil.


Not a Rear Tempo Coil Springs, since the one in the Picture has a Tiny Turn that Mine's doesn't have at all... but Maybe a First gen Rear Tempo Springs, unless those are the same for the Second Gen Tempo, in that case; the Rear Coil Springs idea is dismissed.

...unless i am blind, if there is a thread i'd be more than happy to look at it. (besides yours, which we'll update when this ordeal is figured out)


Yes, I'll Update that with the Fresh info.

#34 Uberoo

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 02:29 PM

For the people searching tempo FRONT springs work on the FRONT.Accord FRONT Springs work on the REAR.

the tempo springs are a little smaller in diameter compared to subaru stuff,but they pretty much self center and don't clunk.

sorry to the op for missinformation causing him to get the wrong parts.it worked on my car with the EJ22.If you were closer I would help you with it.

#35 xbeerd

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 10:00 AM

Uberoo... would you say that your setup, looks remotely close to mine then? as far as how the spring sits in the strut? disregard the number of turns/coils. that'll be different. (and you cant really tell from these pics anyways)

Posted Image
Posted Image

as tight as they are in there, i think i will have to remove a little more coil but i think since i have my fender off and ************ i might just mount the thing in there anyways as is. maybe i'll do it without my lift block and we'll see how it shapes up against the other side with subaru strut and lift block.

#36 xbeerd

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 10:03 AM

you know. the tempo struts arent THAT much larger than the subaru struts. anyone ever think of boring out the knuckle to accept the tempo strut and use the subaru strut top/tophat? you'd just have to cut of the tab on the side of the tempo strut.

thats probably more work than its worth. :)

#37 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 01:56 PM

For the people searching tempo FRONT springs work on the FRONT.Accord FRONT Springs work on the REAR...


Yes, This is How I Run my BumbleBeast and this is How I Posted my Writeup.

... i might just mount the thing in there anyways as is. maybe i'll do it without my lift block and we'll see how it shapes up against the other side with subaru strut and lift block.


So, Have you already Tried them? :confused:

#38 xbeerd

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 03:56 PM

Yes, This is How I Run my BumbleBeast and this is How I Posted my Writeup.

So, Have you already Tried them? :confused:


i still dont get how you didnt have any issue getting the stock tempo spring into the strut.

WAIT a minute.... was it a 2wd strut? with the lower spring perch?? that would be a bit closer to the height of the tempo spring, not sure if it would be enough, but 2" would be a pretty reasonable difference.

i am going to pull my stuff apart and try it out tonight and take some pictures. gotta get some more work done today and i'm gonna buzz out of work for the day, while i have alteast A LITTLE bit of sunlight left. stupid daylight savings time.

Edited by xbeerd, 07 November 2011 - 11:01 PM.


#39 xbeerd

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 11:08 PM

ok. so. im not necessarily thrilled that the spring is like a half inch OD smaller, but it IS staying in place. i took the car for a spin after i recompressed the strut, realigned the strut top so the spanner holes were perpendicular to the car. (hope thats right?? seems better)

So, first i tried it with out my 2" lift block on the strut, thinking maybe it would be stiff enough that it would add lift. this was my result...

Posted Image

it appears to be right same as stock height. so oh well.

here's some pics of the install with the 2" lift tops.

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

these pics were takin right off the jack, so the suspension hadnt settled at all yet.

Edited by xbeerd, 07 November 2011 - 11:27 PM.


#40 xbeerd

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 11:27 PM

it sits pretty much even now. now its just a matter of how much is the spring going to sag i guess.

but at the moment, its pretty good. not overly stiff, but definately stiffer than the other (20 yr old) spring.

sorry for freakin out the other day about all that, but you can see how at the time it was looking like i just stuck $130 up my rump roast and got nowhere. so in the end, it looks like i only wasted $64 on the junk yard tempo assemblys. which sucks. but oh well. money grows on trees right?

Jeszek, if you stuff doenst look like mine.. i wonder if maybe suspension was different on your local models of the tempo?

i'll take some better pics once i get my fender back on. it was just propped up on there for the pics.

#41 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 11:08 AM

...Jeszek, if you stuff doenst look like mine.. i wonder if maybe suspension was different on your local models of the tempo?...


Nope, also our Local Junk Yards are not Legally allowed to Sell Local Parts on them, they Bring all their Parts cars from USA.

Please see This Post for a Complete Explanation about That, Full of Pictures:

http://www.ultimates...58&postcount=15


Well, seems like your Subie ended with the stiffer Suspension at almost the Stock Height, just like some of Us that also Used Tempo Springs on EA82's Subarus; so Seems like you obtained the same Results.

Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 17 November 2011 - 12:55 PM.
Add web Link.


#42 xbeerd

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 04:45 PM

this is true, but it wasnt necessarily as plug and play as i expected. the fitment i got i wouldnt call a 'close' replacement. there is considerable amount of difference between the 2 springs diameterwise (stock or aftermarket tempo vs stock subaru.)

i wonder if tho, there is some kind of spacer that can be made to better hold the tempo spring in place in the event of a heavy blow.

#43 xbeerd

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 11:28 PM

looking thru the Moog springs. it seems as tho the Moog CC799 might be a better fit. this spring is for a 98-2004 Dodge Intrepid

End 1 Type: Square
End 2 Type: Tangential
Inside Diameter: 4.750
Bar Diameter: 0.531
Install Height: 10"
Load: 420
Spring Rate: 145
Free Height: 12.9

its shorter, has the same spring rate and a higher load rating as the tempo springs as i have, and could possibly be installed with out cutting, or possibly just have to cut off a dead coil. wonder if i can source one of thse to test fitment. we'll see if the yard has one i can access easily next time down that way.

#44 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 08:44 PM

Could I Kindly ask you if you already Tried to Drive your Subaru with that Tempo Coil Springs? :confused:

I'll Like to read How was your Overall experience.

Kind Regards.

#45 xbeerd

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 10:50 AM

yeah, i was going to do a quick write up when i have the chance as far as putting it together with the aftermarket springs i chose vs using junkyard springs.

I been driving with them for about a week now. they are holding fine, no shifting and its definately a stiffer ride. i thought one was moving around, but it turns out i have a worn wheel bearing on that side and have a little wheel play. boo.. :banghead:

im still not super fond of the extra space on the upper seat on the strut, but i guess if its not moving then its fine. i want to break them down again and put in the tempo upper spring seat (modified) on to spread out the pressure a bit, and also give it about a 1/4" of lift as i may have cut off slightly too much from the spring (3.3 coils, i probably should have only cut 3 coils.) so when i have the time for i'll do it.)

#46 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 01:57 PM

Well... As I Promise, Here is the Picture of my BumbleBeast's Front Strut:


Posted Image


Ford Tempo Coil Springs on Subaru 4X4 Shock Absorbers,
as you can see the Turns on the Spring.

Kind Regards.



#47 El Presidente

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 04:57 PM

looking thru the Moog springs. it seems as tho the Moog CC799 might be a better fit. this spring is for a 98-2004 Dodge Intrepid

End 1 Type: Square
End 2 Type: Tangential
Inside Diameter: 4.750
Bar Diameter: 0.531
Install Height: 10"
Load: 420
Spring Rate: 145
Free Height: 12.9

its shorter, has the same spring rate and a higher load rating as the tempo springs as i have, and could possibly be installed with out cutting, or possibly just have to cut off a dead coil. wonder if i can source one of thse to test fitment. we'll see if the yard has one i can access easily next time down that way.


The stock spring rate for a 85'-94' EA82 wagon is 146 in the front and 196 in the rear, so what you have is very close to stock EA82 wagon.

There are many different sizes/rates of tempo springs and this is normal for almost any model/make/year of vehicle, even Subaru. Spring rates/sizes are determined at the factory based off body style, engines(tempos came with a 2.0l diesel, 2.0l or 2.3l I4 petro and also a V6 petro in the 90's )trim levels, accessory packages(A/C springs are usually stiffer for example) and handling requirements.

Its the same with the honda accord springs, depends on what model, year, etc.

When I first read Loyale 2.7 Turbo 's writeup I noticed the years, models..some details were missing, so I went on a search which I haven't finished yet. I started by using Rock auto, o'rielly's and autozone to get part numbers and cross referencing these numbers on manufacturers websites to get details like spring rates, install height etc.. What I did find is that all the 1st gen. tempos with 2wd all had a spring rate somewhere between 142-148lbs. according to MOOG. This is very close to subarus wagon spec of 146lbs.. Other dimensions where different though, like free height, install height and install load. I didn't look at the diesel or 4wd tempos, but those may be the right track. I think the 4wd option was available for only a few years and the diesel was only availabel from 84-86'.I did look at later Tempos and found an inner spring in the rear that may fit better than the fronts, but I didn't investigate too far, because I don't need new front springs yet. In the later years the the got bigger and heavier and needed more spring to hold them up. I can't say what works the best, but I thought I'd share what I've found so far and how I'm looking for springs.

Josh

#48 xbeerd

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:34 PM

i did basically the same thing you did for finding a tempo spring size, using moog for a reference, i know there are all different sizes etc, but for the most part, the OD and height etc were pretty close, but as i was looking at Rock Auto for model comparison, they seemed to list the same springs for different models. that 'd have varying weights (like AT W/ AC Etc VS MT)

the thing that i really didnt like was the OD of the spring being that much smaller that the size of the strut. but i do like the idea of those Intrepid springs. seems like it would be a better fit.

i had a rate of 135 or so stock, but i was looking at a 87 XT fms

#49 PadreScout

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:36 PM

looking thru the Moog springs. it seems as tho the Moog CC799 might be a better fit. this spring is for a 98-2004 Dodge Intrepid

End 1 Type: Square
End 2 Type: Tangential
Inside Diameter: 4.750
Bar Diameter: 0.531
Install Height: 10"
Load: 420
Spring Rate: 145
Free Height: 12.9

its shorter, has the same spring rate and a higher load rating as the tempo springs as i have, and could possibly be installed with out cutting, or possibly just have to cut off a dead coil. wonder if i can source one of thse to test fitment. we'll see if the yard has one i can access easily next time down that way.




Is that a spring for the front or rear? Also these spring dimensions being thrown around are for the 4WD Ea82, yeah?


Sorry, but between 2WD/4WD , front or rear ... honda, tempo, intrepid - I've become quite lost and I happen to be in the market for springs on all corners I am attempting to get this cleared up (plan B is taking the springs off and measuring them, but what a hassle.)

#50 xbeerd

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:17 AM

Is that a spring for the front or rear? Also these spring dimensions being thrown around are for the 4WD Ea82, yeah?

the intrepid spring is a rear spring on the intrepid but would be replacing a front spring on the ea82 potientially. i havent done it yet, mainly because i dont have $60 i can drop on some more springs for r&d. yeah, 4wd ea82s



Sorry, but between 2WD/4WD , front or rear ... honda, tempo, intrepid - I've become quite lost and I happen to be in the market for springs on all corners I am attempting to get this cleared up (plan B is taking the springs off and measuring them, but what a hassle.)


cliffs notes:
EA82 front springs can be replaced with the ford tempo front springs, but the tempo springs will have to be modified in some manner for the height, being that they are like 3-4 inches taller than the subaru spring. but as a heads up. the tempo spring will seat in the subaru strut, but it will have about a half inch gap on the one side due to the OD of the spring being smaller.

EA82 rears can be replaced with the front springs of a Honda Accord per Jeszeks write up. you'll have to search but i think its 1988-91 or so range of years for that. They will lift up the rear end.

yeah, i hear ya, it is confusing.




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