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Cylinder Head Replacement...HELP!


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I have a 92 Legacy, turbo, and I'm thinkin' a valve is dying (classic chattering, rough idle, etc.) so it's time to fix it. This is where the fun starts...

 

I've done engine swaps before, and with the exception of the time the axle nut fell off this beast (right after I bought it, apparently the last owner doesn't know the value of cotter pins) it's never seen a mechanic (nor have any of my other cars). So I'm good with doing the labor myself. So do I...

 

1. take off one or both heads and have it/them machined and rebuilt

2. buy a new/rebuilt head

*if so, the car was "raised" in Indiana State and I just drove it out here to Seattle last fall, so should I try to find an old head in IN to be careful they've aged similarly?

3. get a new engine.

 

Right now, we're looking at me not having much time or money, and so I'm trying to strike a balance between the two. I'll sacrifice a little money to save a lot of time and vice versa.

 

I'm leaning towards finding pulling the engine and taking the heads into seattle to have them rebuilt at Action Machine. It seems like the most effecient/effective way to do this.

 

One last question...I know I'm new here, but as it stands now, I'm doing this by myself in an uncovered driveway in March in Seattle ('cause rain in your engine bay during a head change is a great idea!!!). If anyone knows of a garage that I could use in the next 2-3 weeks or even wants to grab a wrench and pitch in (as always, the owner of the car will pitch in for chow and drinks!), I'd welcome the chance to meet some of the other scoobie owners in the area! Any help is welcome regarding any of this!!! Thanks!!!

 

-Marissa

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Before you start tearing things apart I would do some testing first to see what is really happening and pin the trouble down. A compression test is a good start. I would also check the condition of the plugs to see what they look like. You may just need to work on one side of the engine or perhaps something other than a head is at fault. When you know what is really wrong then you can decide better on what you want to do to fix things. A little time spent investigating will save you time and money.

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yeah, the testing. I know what you mean, especially since this particular soob likes to fool me. Some funny stories, but i'll save them for later.

 

No, I've pulled the plugs repeatedly, (all fine), checked the timing, tweaked the air intake six ways from Sunday without much change. The compression in the third cylinder had dropped slightly the last time I pulled the plugs (about three weeks ago, before the ride got really ugly) and since then I've been misfiring and the engine is clattering so loudly that I can't even blast the radio to drown it out (*joke*). Then there's my fuel economy...great god, of all times, when gas is over $2/gal.

 

This cylinder happens to be the same one that lost a plug about a month and a half ago. The plug unscrewed itself while the car was running and it suddenly felt like my exhaust manifold fell off. I pulled over and there was the spark plug sitting on the valve cover. The threads weren't even damaged. I'm wondering if that has something to do with my current trouble. Freakin weirdest thing I've ever seen a car do, though!!

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timing belt, huh? I've never had timing problems before. I'd meant to pull the cover and check on that, but someone told me it wouldn't make that noise (the chattering) and I forgot to (oops).

 

I remember thinking the 3rd cylinder's compression was lower than the others, but not by too much, however, that was a while ago and I don't have the numbers here. Anyway, I'm going to go home and re-test the compression and timing, and then pull the cover off the timing belt if either comes up funny. Can't hurt to be sure. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll post the results tomorrow.

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I'm not sure what area is causing or where your chattering is coming from. One thing that may help is to remove a plugwire from the suspected area and see if that changes the noise.

 

Your welcome for the help and keep us posted.

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Ok. here's the results. Nothing. The timing belt is...perfect. The compression is...almost perfect:

1. 178 psi

2. 175 psi

3. 168 psi

4. 175 psi

 

So the third hasn't dropped any at all hardly. However, we did notice on the fourth cylinder (the first time around for the test) that things weren't screwing in right (either the tester or the plug) and we got a reading of 145 psi. So I pulled the windshield washer resevoir and we tried again and got 175. Since then, though, the drive is infinitely smoother. I'm wondering if that spark plug was coming out too, or else was never in completely. I let my boyfriend do that side of the engine last time and he's banned from touching the car now (hehehe).

 

However, we still have this clicking. It continued through the compression test, with everything diconnected and we've checked all the plug wires and they're all live. I can't tell for sure where it's coming from, but it's loud enough to hear inside the car while driving, and it's speed is proportionate to the car's speed. it's a dead ringer for a dying valve, though. Is there any way that could still be the problem, even with great compression?

 

What the hell is wrong with my car????

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I don't know if this applies to Legacy 2.2L motors but in the old GL 1.8L, if the oil pump O-ring was dry or cracked it would suck a little air. You wouldn't get enough oil pressure at the lifters and one or more of them would make an awful clicking/ticking racket. But oil pressure would show up fine on the gauge because the sending unit is right next to the pump. I've bought a couple of GLs very cheap that way because the owners thought the engine was shot. I would then do a complete front end seal and T-belt replacement and the car was as good as new. I know the oil pump O-ring is similar on the 2.2L as the 1.8L so they might be suseptable to the same type of problem.

Call Aaron's Auto Wrecking in Seattle. They will sell you the everything you need, all new Sub oem parts. Complete Seal kit (ask for oil pump O-ring), T-belt, and water pump for around $100 for all. Have you ever changed your t-belt and water pump? Couldn't hurt. Good luck.

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never checked the water pump, but the timing belt and sprockets look brand new.

 

I was thinking. I have a slight oil leak from the oil spout. The o-ring is dead there and it looks like it's been leaking for a long friggin time. I have the o-ring, but I just haven't had a sunny day to replace it yet. (I leave in seattle and I have no garage, go figure.) Do you think that could cause a similar problem? Pulling in air from the oil spout?

 

I don't have an oil pressure gauge, but I haven't noticed the oil being low and despite the leak, it's generally pretty much full at oil changes, even when I wait the full 7500 miles (I did that the first change, but have been changing it at 3000 miles ever since).

 

So call me stupid, but when you're talking about the front seal, what are we referring to here?

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Air intake system is as tuned as it gets on this animal. and besides, i've been down that road, and I'm not sure air problems can cause this stuff. I have a smooth idle, and no loss of power (now that the spark plug is back in right).

 

What I do have is a lot of clatter, an engine that likes to misfire at 3-4k rpms (that's fun. Freeway. 65mph. Misfires three times in a row. Waiting for my engine to burst out of my hood and come through the sunroof).

 

The only other weird thing it does is I've noticed soemtimes when I take it out of gear from high rpms, it bounces down to about 2000 rpms, back up to 2500-3000, and then down slowly to normal idle. I've never owned a turboed car before, so is this part of the turbo spinning down, or is this a bad thing?

 

Thank you guys so much for your help on this, I'm totally out of ideas here!

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You should be delighted about those pressure numbers. They are all within 10 lbs. of each other and high also. This is very good news.

 

The talk about the front seal is refering to the seal for the main crankshaft. It also has a rear seal as you most likely know.

 

Subaru engines are known for their tappet noise and perhaps what you are hearing is just that. The type of oil you are using will have a bearing on this. What are you using currently? A weak oil pump can cause this also as was mentioned.

 

To help pinpoint a source of noise you can use a length of heater hose and put one end near your ear and then probe different areas of the engine to find the area. It could be that all the tappets are making noise. If this is a rod problem it should change tone if you remove a plug wire and listen to the engine. Turn the engine off first to remove the plug wire if you do this test.

 

You may also want to let a Subaru repair shop listen to your engine and see what they think. It sounds to me you don't need to tear into the engine unless you have a serious tappet or rod problem.

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Yeah, there's no distributor, and the timing belt is new (still can read the numbers on the back of it!) with full treads, perfect sprockets, and it's lined up correctly. ?!?!?! I'm not sure what more I can check on that front, it all looks great.

 

5W30 and I'm not full, but not low (right in the middle).

 

Tappet noise, I'm used to. This is much louder than the slight rattle it's always had. Vacuum hose thing and oil spout o-ring are at the top of the to-do list.

 

After that, I suppose you're right, time for a pro. This part drives me nuts. I'm a 20-yr-old (not un-attractive) girl. last time I brought the car near a mechanic, they tried to tell me I needed to replace my entire front end for about $1500. After bartering for a few hours, they finally admitted it just needed an new axle nut. I need to grow a mustache or something before the next time I take a car to a shop, or they'll never take me seriously.

 

Sorry. I think I needed to vent. Anyways, any other diagnostic checks I can make before the last resort are welcome. I'll go as far as taste-testing the contents of the cylinder if it'll prevent me from having to take my scoobie in! :P

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Try the plug wire removal to see if you can pin it down to a single cylinder.

 

As far as a shop goes, I would go to a dealer service shop or a place that specializes in Subaru repairs and just have them give you an opinon of what they think is wrong. You can give them a list of things you have tried already and the results. Like the compression test.

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If you do the front of the motor yourself, there are 2-camshaft seal, 1-crankseal, and I believe 1-oil pump seal (correct me if I'm wrong). There are the two T-belts and belt tensioner and 1-waterpump. The parts aren't expensive, it takes a good day to do and it's a great peace of mind. Especially if you don't know when this was all done the last time. The oil spout o-ring won't make a diiference on oil pressure it'll just leak.

 

If you're looking for a good Sub mechanic in the Seattle area I've heard great things about these guys:

 

http://www.smart-service.com/

 

As far as dealership service goes that's hit or miss. I've heard Carter is good except if you're a woman:o ( I got that from a woman here at work with a 2001 OBW)

I've heard Auburn is good from a Subiegal here on this board because her SO works there.

Walkers in Renton, sorry but they don't know their ars from who knows what! And I wouldn't trust anyone on the Eastside because thet're all about the $$$$! Good luck

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JaapH: I'm talking about the crankshaft. I'm always in the car and driving when I have that happen, so I mean what the tach is reading. If you can figure out a way to get the frequency of the rattle, tell me!

 

duane b: yeah, I'm going to hold out on that if possible. As I said, the timing belt is fine (I assume that's what you mean by t-belt) as are the sprockets. The water pump is old and could probably use an honerable discharge soon, but I don't think it's doing this, and honestly I don't revel at the idea of pulling the oil pump. The pan is hard to get to, let alone pull, and I know of too many cases where aluminum engines didn't like having it pulled and put back on. They're hard to seat correctly and from what I can tell, that's the only part of this engine that isn't leaking oil. :) If I can tell for sure that it's going to fix this, I'll do it, but otherwise, too scary for recreation.

 

Thanks so much for the garage recommendations, though! I was wondering where the good soob mechanics around here were. right now, I'm stealing form Walkers in renton. I use my company's tax ID to get the wholesale price, hehehe. Actually, those guys are funny. So far, they've offered me three jobs there! (2 in parts, and one in the garage!)

 

Ok, we'll be doing mroe testing and playing tomorrow after work and I'll let y'all know after that. Thank you guys so much for the help!!!

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2.2 legacy turbo, huh? Nice car =)

 

Whether or not you can see the original markings on your timing belt is inconsequential. When it is time for replacement, replace it. If you don't know when it has been replaced last, replace it. If you have leaking oil seals and the t-belt is soaked, replace it.

 

The 2.2's have a couple of things that you need to know. First, the idler pulleys, which the t-belts ride on, don't last forever. When they start going bad, they make a ticking or knocking sound.

 

You might have lower oil pressure than normal, or oil areation, both which will make the lifters tick. You should, when replacing the t-belt, inspect the tensoiner and all idler pulleys, replace cam and crank seals, water pump, AND probably throw some seals at the oil pump, too.

 

Simply changing your oil viscosity might make the lifter noise go away. Try some Mobil1 15w-50 synthetic. It's thick enough to boost oil pressure, besides being a great oil. Heck, run whatever you want, just try something thicker than 5w-30. Auto-RX gets recommended frequently, it apparently cleans the s*** out of everything, including clogged lifters. Do a Google search for it.

 

This should keep you busy for a while. Legacycentral.org is another good place to post, it is fairly crawling with people willing to help you, as is this place.

 

Eric

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Ok, the markings on the belt-that was a joke. No, the tread is still think and the timing pulleys line up exactly. Is there any other way to tell if the pulleys are dying besides the sound? any trick to test it?

 

The belt is clean, and the front of the engine is leak free. I'll look into adding an oil pressure gauge here, though, it's not a bad idea regardless of the problem.

 

and like I said before, I REALLY don't want to try to get at that oil pump unless I HAVE to. that's f-ugly. <shudder> I might get at those other seals though, when I have a chance. I'm of the school of thought that says, if it's not broke, don't fix it. None of them seem to be leaking so I'm not terribly keen on toying with them.

 

But yeah, I love this car. My first subaru and wow!!! Nothing like hauling everything you own in a "ricer", driving cross-country in august, and playing with an M5 for three states. I'd lost my transmission mount sometime in there, and never knew it because I never had to shift out of 5th, even when the M5 did! I love this car, if only it would run for three weeks consecutively!

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Unfortunatley, the only way to test the tensioner pulleys is to take them off and give them a spin. They should spin a long time, and have no roughness or tight spots.

 

Nothing leaking? Odd =)

 

Install the gauge to make sure you have at least the minimum acceptable pressure (whatever that is). Check it at idle after it's hot, if it's hovering around 0, then you might have issues.

 

You might do this before anything else, to make sure everythings ok. If pressure looks ok, I'd start with something easy and cheap, aka change the oil and put something thicker in it. If the noise goes away, problem solved.

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Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm not too familiar with the EJ-22, but can't you change the oil pump seals without removing the pan?

 

I know you can on all the EA series, and my brother just did on his 91 Legacy with the 1.8L.

 

That's one of the great things about Subarus...external oil pumps.

 

RedLance

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My sentiments exactly on the 'no leaks' you have a one in a million Subaru! The oil pump is the easiest pump in the world to change the seals on. Getting to it (I believe correct me if I'm wrong) requires removing the T-belts. So if you do this it makes sense to change the belts since they're off the car. And since you can get at the waterpump at that time it makes sense to change that also. And anything else that is in there such as all the seals you can get to and possibly the idler/tension pulleys. These are all relativley cheap items and will give you a peace of mind. That's as far as the noisy engine goes. As far as the engine missing you might start with plugs and work your way back. New plugs, new wires. If it still misses try and isolate the cyl that's missing, hopefully it's only one cylinder. The compression test did reveal good news as said earlier on this board. I would guess that your heads, headgaskets, rings, valves, and vlave timing are in good enough shape. It's definitely something else. If you determine that the electrical is in working order then start with the fuel delivery system. Has your car thrown a code (check engine light) yet? If so then have it read and someone on this board can help decipher it. Good luck.

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