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What Paint is "best"?


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34 replies to this topic

#1 PRND3L

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 07:38 PM

I am looking to paint my 94 Loyale, I have drove around and seen how this paint booth uses PPG, and that one uses Sherwin-Williams, and then you can buy Paint from Summit Racing Equipment, but that isnt marked with the producer, and then you can also buy Dupli-color, essentially the list of paint goes on forever.

So I was wondering if some of you guys on here have also done a paintjob(s) and if you have a personal preference as to what company to buy paint from.

Thanks,
Alex

Edited by PRND3L, 09 July 2011 - 07:49 PM.


#2 3eyedwagon

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:09 PM

This question just isn't going to work. It's like asking what brand of oil is the best, or what kind of filters are the best. All you're going to get is a bunch of speculation, and statements like " I shot a car with Dupont one time in a snowstorm, and it sucked. ". That isn't going to help you at all.
Anyone who's shot much paint will have a brand they prefer, but, that is because they have experience with it.

I've had good experiences with some, and bad with others, but, if people were honest, and unbiased with their opinions most would realize that bad results were/are usually the result of bad prep work, and inexperience. I've had Dupont Nason flop, but, to be honest I'll gladly admit that I wasn't experienced shooting metallic paints, and that was probably why the metallic fell over on me.

The best advice I can give you is this: The best paint is fresh paint. Stuff that has been sitting for a long time will often catalyze poorly, and do strange things like fisheye. I've shot a fair amount of all sorts of paint, and I've found that freshness is the most important thing. I've used the paints from Summit, and have also shot bargain basement brands from GI Joes. I can tell you that they worked great, but, don't let them sit on your shelf for months/years, as they've probably already been sitting awhile before you ever ordered them up.

#3 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:32 PM

I agree with this being a question that isn't answerable - it's about skill more than anything.

I will tell you that most painters do not enjoy spraying the metallic's that Subaru likes to use in it's stock colors. They tend to either go on dry and dusty, or they go on too thick and the metal flake lays out like hammerite and looks like crap. So most end up spraying it dry and dusty and then clear coating it to make it look shiny. I didn't want to shoot clear on the last touch-up job I did (I hate painting) and so I color-sanded it and buffed it. Looked fine but it was a $1500 car.... it was better than the peeling clear-coat that it had before I started. :rolleyes:

GD

#4 [HTi]Johnson

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 11:18 PM

I've used Rustoleum Flat Black. Flat black is easy to shoot. Don't have to worry much about overspray.

I agree, it's %95 prep work. You have to sand, sand, and sand. Feather out any specs or scratches. However, I'm not a pro and the cars I'm spraying aren't customers, they're mine or friend's. But I'm kinda proud of the outcome.

I was surprised with how nice the Rustoleum is holding up. I figured it would flake off in a month. A winter, spring, and now summer has and is hammering it. It's been on gravel and mud. He left the mud on for a couple weeks and it "etched" it (you can see where the mud was, not actually peeling paint off).

So, in the end, I'd hope a professional painter pipes up or you can go around and ask.

What are you aiming for with this paint job?

#5 3eyedwagon

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 12:34 AM

Johnson;1030497']
What are you aiming for with this paint job?


That's the best question that could be asked of the OP in regards to helping him figure out what he needs.

If it is a $1000 car that you just want to dress up, and have fun with I'd suggest trying some of the Summit single stage. I've always had it work well for me, and with a steady hand (or some wet sanding) you can get it to come out pretty nice. I've even had one gloss black job on a Caprice that was actually really impressive. The drawback is that there are only about 30something colors to choose from, and it isn't going to be as long term durable as a nicely done quality base coat / clear coat.

If you are trying to get your vintage car show ready, I would advise a good base coat / clear coat, and ordering the exact shade you want. The downside is that it's going to cost you far more, and be far more labor intensive for a beginner. Metallics will add even more work to this equation as most of them need a clear coat over them.

#6 PRND3L

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:10 PM

Is there a problem with fully priming my car 1 day then coming back to paint it 2 or so weeks later, should paint and prime be done back to back?

I also bought some etching primer and have read several different opinions on the internet about using over or under bondo, is there a definate method of doing that or does it not make a difference?

Thanks,
Alex

#7 Scoobywagon

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:34 PM

As a rule, painting should be done as soon after priming as possible if for no other reason than to limit foreign contaminants in the paint. The surface to be painted needs to be VERY clean in order for the paint to stick properly. That'll be nearly impossible if you wait for 2 weeks.

I normally use a self etching primer. That said, I do use high-build primer in areas where there has been a lot of body work. That includes bondo or fiberglass. That way you can lightly sand the primer back down to get a very smooth surface.

#8 Scoobywagon

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:40 PM

What is 'best' is going to be determined by what you want to accomplish.

If you're after a quick paint job that doesn't look completely crap-tastic and won't break the bank, I like Nason Fast Dry Enamel. It is a single-stage paint, provides a decent finish and is VERY hard. It is also fairly inexpensive as automotive paints go.

If you want a replacement factory finish, I prefer PPG. It is significantly more expensive than the Nason and requires more work to apply. But you can achieve a very OEM finish with it. If you want to put in a little extra work, you can shoot multiple color and clear coats to get a very nice finish.

If you want a wild paint job and don't mind all the work that goes into such a thing, SEM and House of Kolor both make excellent products.

The 3 Subaru's I've painted all got Nason Fast Dry with 3-4 coats of paint and some wet sanding in between.

#9 heartless

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 07:59 PM

self etching primer is meant primarily for use on bare metal. high build primers are great for filling in minor imperfections

no, you do not want to wait 2 weeks between priming and painting - primer is NOT meant to be a finish coat for any length of time - it will absorb moisture rather quickly which promotes rust - kind of defeating the purpose of refinishing :rolleyes:

#10 heartless

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 08:08 PM

for a low cost suggestion - what about Duplicolor's Paint Shop series??? I have read that most people get pretty good results with it - pre-reduced, ready to shoot, which means easy to use.

just a thought - i have no personal experience with this product.

#11 1-3-2-4

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 10:26 PM

I never knew summit sold paints however I don't think it would be as good as the nason paint?

#12 3eyedwagon

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 11:35 PM

I never knew summit sold paints however I don't think it would be as good as the nason paint?


The main downside to the Summit paints is the loss of selection. You only get a small pallet of colors to choose from compared to the custom house brands where a virtually infinite numbers of shades can be made, and matched to existing paints. The quality probably suffers slightly, but, what do you expect for being able to shoot so cheaply?

#13 1-3-2-4

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 11:44 PM

almost everyone has the color I want to shoot (black) I plan on shooting flat black next year

#14 3eyedwagon

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 01:47 AM

almost everyone has the color I want to shoot (black) I plan on shooting flat black next year


Do something else. Flatblack is super played out, especially on foreign cars. We get it, its an attempt at utilitarianism. How unique. If its not a tractor, or built before 1950, it's really starting to get sad. And I have a flat black S10:rolleyes:. It's going gloss just to get away from the me too crowd.

#15 1-3-2-4

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 04:27 AM

Im going flat because thats less stuff to mix

#16 PRND3L

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 12:17 PM

for a low cost suggestion - what about Duplicolor's Paint Shop series??? I have read that most people get pretty good results with it - pre-reduced, ready to shoot, which means easy to use.

just a thought - i have no personal experience with this product.


I have considered this. Do you or anybody else reading this thread know where an online color code dictionary type thing is? Cause im looking for 2 already manufacured colors, but I can't find a site with color codes.

#17 3eyedwagon

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 12:44 PM

Im going flat because thats less stuff to mix


You need to read up on this. You can get flat coats using as many as 4 parts. Most common is 2 parts, and you can buy it in premixed 1 part if you plan to shoot immediately. The same exact is true of non-flats. Most common enamels are just 2 parts, so your reason isn't sound.

You might want to do some research before deciding that flat is right for you. If you want it to look good you need to know that flat paints take alot of upkeep, and generally wear more quickly due to their lack of abrasion resistance. Even the newest best flats tend to fade far more rapidly because they absorb UV rays, and don't have a top coat to protect from oxidization. You can do a bit better by shooting clear, and then roughing it, but, even this will look bad far faster than a normal paint job. There's a reason that the only nice quality, long lasting flat black paint jobs you ever see are on old hot rods. They are typically stored inside, and only taken out on weekends. Or the owner is OCD enough to re-shoot it often. Try washing a flat black vehicle, and get back to me. If you're going for a "piece of crap car look", then flat will do the trick. If you want it to look nice, you are in for at least 2x the work over a conventional paintjob.

#18 heartless

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 04:20 PM

I have considered this. Do you or anybody else reading this thread know where an online color code dictionary type thing is? Cause im looking for 2 already manufacured colors, but I can't find a site with color codes.


have you tried this?

http://www.autocolorlibrary.com/

search by make and year.

#19 1-3-2-4

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 08:01 PM

You need to read up on this. You can get flat coats using as many as 4 parts. Most common is 2 parts, and you can buy it in premixed 1 part if you plan to shoot immediately. The same exact is true of non-flats. Most common enamels are just 2 parts, so your reason isn't sound.

You might want to do some research before deciding that flat is right for you. If you want it to look good you need to know that flat paints take alot of upkeep, and generally wear more quickly due to their lack of abrasion resistance. Even the newest best flats tend to fade far more rapidly because they absorb UV rays, and don't have a top coat to protect from oxidization. You can do a bit better by shooting clear, and then roughing it, but, even this will look bad far faster than a normal paint job. There's a reason that the only nice quality, long lasting flat black paint jobs you ever see are on old hot rods. They are typically stored inside, and only taken out on weekends. Or the owner is OCD enough to re-shoot it often. Try washing a flat black vehicle, and get back to me. If you're going for a "piece of crap car look", then flat will do the trick. If you want it to look nice, you are in for at least 2x the work over a conventional paintjob.


I'm not trying to do a show car or anything like that I only got my car for $1100, I've wondered how washing a flat black car would be.. How much extra work is it to make it so it can be somewhat glossy?

#20 heartless

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 06:54 AM

I'm not trying to do a show car or anything like that I only got my car for $1100, I've wondered how washing a flat black car would be.. How much extra work is it to make it so it can be somewhat glossy?


if you are wanting to get a halfway decent finish without a lot of money (about $50) do a google for the rustoleum method - there are plenty of people that have done it (i think even Miles Fox has done this). they are NOT using spray cans, but the quarts of paint, thinned way down so it goes on smoother - takes multiple coats...from what i understand it gives a decent finish - not showroom quality or anything but pretty darn good for a daily driver.

if you are wanting that "flat" look - you might try the newer "matte" finish paints - not a true flat, but not glossy either.

#21 1-3-2-4

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 08:26 PM

i'd have to message him to ask does it shoot with a HVLP gun?

#22 PRND3L

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 03:54 PM

Ive heard opinions about metallics and how they can bea little tough for a beginning painter, but what about pearls?

#23 3eyedwagon

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 06:49 PM

Ive heard opinions about metallics and how they can bea little tough for a beginning painter, but what about pearls?


About the flat: The flatter the paint, the worse it is to maintain, and the quicker it absorbs impurities, and looks like crap. Semis are just that. They are semi flat, so, they will still absorb things like oils, UV, and abrasion more quickly.

Pearls are equally tough to shoot. It requires a very very even coating or you end up with depth problems, and not alot of options to fix it other than sanding and re-shooting. The way you lay down metallics, and pearls is very important. It takes discipline. You need to be very measured, and mechanical, laying the coats down the same everywhere. Pretty much like a robot. A change of handspeed, or going back over one area one time too much, and you'll have a spot that will look different. I wouldn't suggest pearls to a beginner, but, on the other hand, there's only one way to no longer be a beginner, and that's doing it. If it's a cheap car, and you just want to play, GO FOR IT. :)

#24 PRND3L

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 07:52 PM

About the flat: The flatter the paint, the worse it is to maintain, and the quicker it absorbs impurities, and looks like crap. Semis are just that. They are semi flat, so, they will still absorb things like oils, UV, and abrasion more quickly.

Pearls are equally tough to shoot. It requires a very very even coating or you end up with depth problems, and not alot of options to fix it other than sanding and re-shooting. The way you lay down metallics, and pearls is very important. It takes discipline. You need to be very measured, and mechanical, laying the coats down the same everywhere. Pretty much like a robot. A change of handspeed, or going back over one area one time too much, and you'll have a spot that will look different. I wouldn't suggest pearls to a beginner, but, on the other hand, there's only one way to no longer be a beginner, and that's doing it. If it's a cheap car, and you just want to play, GO FOR IT. :)


Thats what I figured.

Thanks

#25 1-3-2-4

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 02:27 PM

So what type of paint to spray for black then thats not flat? I'm not sure how semi glossy would look




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