pvenuti Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) Got a CEL the other day, pulled the codes and they tell me that Fuel Injectors #2 and #4 are an issue. Pulled out the Ohm meter and #2 tests fine while #4 appears dead short. What is my best option for a replacement injector. I see them online for $59, local parts stores have rebuilt starting at $65 “new” for $90-$118. Any opinions on OEM or a particular brand if I go new. Even thought #2 tests ok on the meter should I consider replacing that. I belive this EJ22 is out of a 1992 Legacy. Last question should my fuel injectors be this dirty? Edited September 23, 2011 by pvenuti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 That's quite a buildup. I'd run some seafoam once you get it back together. I'd just go used on the injector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 I wonder if the buildup might be due to the fact that there is no gas getting into that cylinder so there is no combustion occurring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 That is a 90/91 automatic injector (grey top). Those are prone to failure. You can replace them with 92 to 98 EJ22/EJ25 injectors (red tops) as they are fully compatible. I would get a full set of red tops from a '92 to '94 and swap the whole rails. Then you just need a couple o-rings for the rail ends. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Thanks for the tip on the red top injectors. This EJ22 is an engine swap into a kit car with a standard trans. Should I be concerned with the injectors auto vs standard if I go over to red tops. Also this is the second time I have seen someone recoment swaping the whole fule rail is there a reason I should go that route rather than just poping in new injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 You'll probably "see the light" on the entire rail replacement when you try and remove an individual injector sucessfully. Soaking and hose clamp pliers help but not an easy job usually. Just replace the whole rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 If you want a set of injectors with rails, I have them. Just let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Rail replacement = one generic o-ring. Injector replacement = two o-rings per injector and it's a fight to get them out. As I said - just get two used 92 to 94 rails with red-tops and you will be fine. You will likely never have another failure. The grey tops were prone to driver coil failure. The difference between automatic and manual transmission injectors is only present on 90/91 models and has to do with the style of injector they used - there's a difference in the spray pattern between the black tops and the grey tops. They both flow the same and are 100% interchangable with the red tops which were used in all engines starting in '92 and going up to '98 EJ22's and some '99 EJ25's. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Also this is the second time I have seen someone recoment swaping the whole fule rail is there a reason I should go that route rather than just poping in new injectors. Another reason is the rails from '90/'91 are physically different than the '92-94 so the 'red top' injectors won't work in the '90/'91 Rails, but any of those years' rails will fit the intake manifold (IM). Also, there are metal spacers that may be used on yours, they sit under the mounting tabs on the rails - they are shown below between the injectors/rail and IM. Sorry, but not sure what years use/need them: GL, Td Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I wonder if the buildup might be due to the fact that there is no gas getting into that cylinder so there is no combustion occurring. The injectors do not stick into the combustion chamber, so no. The buildup is from oil vapor being fed into the intake through the PCV system, and exhaust through the EGR system if the engine has it. The inside of the intake manifold looks about the same. I'd remove the entire manifold and clean it out with a bottle brush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eulogious Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Here's a TON of info on the injectors: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=117696 Should answer some of your questions... HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Thank you for the insight about the rails being unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 WTDASH, Can you provide the part number off the rails in the photo please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) Hi, Sorry, those are pics I found online - not mine. The P/N's are listed...if you look close. I grabbed the pics from HERE - used in a VW conversion. They're from a '92 Legacy if that helps. TD Edited September 22, 2011 by wtdash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 Having a hard time reading it from the photo. I think I have most of it as XX 522 aa170 aa6 701 R65 the R may be a B and no idea what the XX is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) Here is a photo of a rail that fits my car. Inside diameter for the injector barrel is .960 and the rail bolts are on the bottom closer to the block than the intake manifold. Im headed to the junk yard tomorrow to see if I can find a set with the redtop injectors and if there is a difference in the rails. Edited September 23, 2011 by pvenuti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 There is a difference in the rails. For sure. A set of red-top rails will fix you right up. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 I think the rails you want to look for will have the straight injectors caps like this: http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTyzYpOdoh8qc0D7mNIqgi6m6VK0BkbuG82LKJSXdvcODypSQcTQq7sqLxPVQ rather than being angled like those in the other pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvenuti Posted September 25, 2011 Author Share Posted September 25, 2011 Ok, I’m back from the junk yard and here is what I found. I looked at a 93 Legacy it had the Grey injectors. I looked at a 94 Legacy it had the Red injectors I looked at a 95 and took the Red injectors and rails it had. Comparing the nozzle between 94 and 95 and they were slightly different. Popped one of the injectors from the 94 tried it in my existing rail(grey injectors caps at an angle) and it fit but not really. The seal at the base into the intake manifold is smaller than the grey injectors and leave a big gap. Existing caps won’t fit as the injector tops are a different shape and moving caps between rails didn’t work either as the red injectors where to tall for the rails that take grey injectors. At this point your asking yourself why is it that I’m looking at all these little differences. It’s because in addition to the rails being unique for the injectors they are also a different length. The ports for the manifold appear to match up but the spare rail I have for grey injectors is a quarter of an inch longer than the red injector rail with the pressure regulator and about a half inch longer than the one without. My question is this. Do I have the right rails and I need to pull in the fuel lines on each end or are there yet another set of rails out there that are the same length as what I have. As a side note I checked the resistance on these red injectors and they all match. I found this to be interesting as compared to my grey injectors as they are all over the place no consistency. Probably one of the reasons I’m looking at injectors in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Look at the bolt tabs. They are very different than yours. In order to use those rails, you will have to put them in upside down and I really dont think that that is goint to work. The ones I have look to be the same as yours. Let me get the measurements and if you want some pictures, send me your email and I can get that for you. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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