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1991 Loyale Wagon - let the build begin.


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144 replies to this topic

#1 Stubies Subie

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 03:27 AM

I’m sure most of you read the other thread where I kind of jumped the gun and got something I should have probably stayed away from …

Well, here’s the build thread on it,

In short, I bought the car, tried to drive it to work, it over heated, and I limped it to General Disorders house where it’s sitting now, getting the engine worked over.

So lets take it from here: We got the car to GD’s house, pulled the motor, and have got it partly apart, the cams have been sent in for a regrind, and we’re still waiting on some parts I think before GD starts sealing back up and getting it ready for the install. I think the heads are going in for a resurface as well, GD can update more on that stuff, I'm kind of leaving it to him as he knows best what it needs.

Included are a few pictures of the tear down, and where we’re at now, and what our plans are (always subject to change).

Edited by Stubies Subie, 27 September 2011 - 03:48 AM.


#2 Stubies Subie

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 03:43 AM

This Loyale is going to be built for towing, not to exceed it’s rated towing capacity of 1,900 lbs.

So far, what we have on the drawing board is an XT-6 clutch, that should give me a little more clutch power (if that’s the correct word for that)

We’re also doing the torque cams, that should give a little better low end torque for towing.

A new radiator, which should help with cooling
Also, a new water pump, to help with cooling
And 2 cooling system filters, one on the intake to the radiator, and one on the intake to the heater core, that will help keep debris out of the cooling system by trapping them in the filters where I can easily remove them.
It’s also getting an electric fan conversion, with override switch: I’m supper paranoid of over heating issues, so we’re hoping to solve that problem by taking these extra precautions.

It’s getting a new timing belt set, complete with pulleys and seals and what ever is needed to keep the oil from leaking.

NGK plugs and new wires, that should help with the spark.

And last but not least, an oil cooler.

I have big plans for the interior as well, with a GPS Navigation system, new stereo, some amateur radio gear, including an all band scanner, a 2 meter and 440 MHz radio, and well as 10 and 11 meter equipment, a power inverter. a back up camera to be mounted on the back of the trailer, but viewed from a screen on the dash board, And I’m sure some other stuff I have yet to think of.

oh yeah, and some new speakers for the front doors.

Edited by Stubies Subie, 27 September 2011 - 04:05 AM.


#3 Quidam

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:21 AM

Hey,

Every Owners Manual I have here, and I have several from different years states:

"Trailer towing

Towing trailers or other items with your Subaru is not recommended."

I'm wondering where you got that 1,900 lb. figure from.

In short, if you cause death or injury to someone with this rig, you can be held criminally responsible. Should a crash happen, they may weigh your rig and look at the specs, and hold it against you at trial.

Doug

#4 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 01:22 PM

U-Haul's web site says a 5' x 9' utility trailer is acceptable behind an '89 GL Wagon. Same goes for their motorcycle trailer's as well as the 4' x 7' utility trailer.

I'm pretty sure a large corporate entity like that would not want the liability of saying "This towing combination will work with your setup." if it were that dangerous.

Subaru sold hitches for these cars through their dealer network. That also shows that some combinations are in fact safe.

The owners manual statement is just a CYA on the part of Subaru. They don't want any possibility of liability without being able to inspect each and every combination like U-Haul is able to do at the point of rental, etc.

GD

#5 Stubies Subie

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 01:42 PM

Hey,

Every Owners Manual I have here, and I have several from different years states:

"Trailer towing

Towing trailers or other items with your Subaru is not recommended."

Doug


Apparently in Australia, they tow with the car, because if you look up “Leone” instead of “Loyale” the towing capacity shows up:

http://www.carbuddy....SUBARU&md=LEONE

It lists the towing capacity with trailer brakes, and without. These would be factory specs, from Japan, which should be internationally recognized, if it will tow in Australia, I see no reason why it would not tow that same weights in the US.

Trailer hitches are readily available in the US for the Loyale.

I’ve seen a Loyale towing a garbage trailer to our local land fill; I’ve seen one in the parking lot at our local Home Depot with a trailer attached.

I used to own a small VW GTi, (that’s a smaller car then the Loyale) and I towed a utility trailer loaded with about 1,000 lbs of gear, plus 4 children all over the Pacific Northwest.
I did that until the kids grew up and moved on and I sold the car, I never once had the slightest hint of trouble with that little VW

The Loyale will tow, stay tuned and you will see for yourselves, my Loyale with a trailer behind it.

#6 Red92

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 11:51 PM

The owners manual statement is just a CYA on the part of Subaru.


Yep, and it isn't just Subaru. Many other manufacturers have the same "not recommended" clause, or drastically lower tow ratings for USA models as compared to the (identical) models for European or other markets. :banghead:

#7 Stubies Subie

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 12:51 AM

Yep, and it isn't just Subaru. Many other manufacturers have the same "not recommended" clause, or drastically lower tow ratings for USA models as compared to the (identical) models for European or other markets. :banghead:


I can understand people’s concerns about towing, but I've been towing most all of my adult life, from driving semi's with doubles and triples, to pulling travel trailers and boats with big "gas hog" pick up trucks. And the once a month trip to the local land fill.

To date I have in access of 500,000 miles under my belt towing trailers, they simply don't bother me in the least.

Properly set up, with trailer brakes where the trailer axle takes part of the braking load, you pretty safe as long as you’re not trying to haul a 5,000 lb trailer with a 2,500 lb car.

The trailer weight rating for the Loyale (with trailer brakes) is 1984 lbs, keep in mind, that is with brakes, without brakes, it drops down to under 1,300 lbs.

I don't intend to go over 1,300 lbs with trailer brakes. that is well below the rated capicity the car can tow.

Add to that an evenly dispersed load both in front of and behind the tow axle, with a tongue weight of about 120 lbs and you have a pretty safe towing set-up.

I don't intend to go up the mountain, or down the mountain for that matter doing warp 9, I intend to drive at a leisurely pace.

You can’t just grab a car (any car) and a trailer (any trailer) and figure that you can tow it, you have to think and plan this stuff out, you can’t pull a 30 foot fifth wheel with a Volkswagen, but you can certainly pull a small light weight utility trailer.

Over the years I’ve found that as a general rule the naysayers are most often people that haven’t tried it, and the ones that support the idea are the ones that have actually done it.

I didn’t get a Loyale to go rock climbing or speed racing, I got one so I could tow a little vacation trailer for an economical price, after pulling a 4,500 lb trailer with a Jeep Grand Cherokee that got between 6 and 10 miles to the gallon, I’m looking forward to a little economy car that will for the most part, take me to the same places the Jeep did.

So Sit back, relax, enjoy the postings; a trailer is coming …….

#8 eulogious

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 05:08 AM

I have big plans for the interior as well, with a GPS Navigation system, new stereo, some amateur radio gear, including an all band scanner, a 2 meter and 440 MHz radio, and well as 10 and 11 meter equipment, a power inverter. a back up camera to be mounted on the back of the trailer, but viewed from a screen on the dash board, And I’m sure some other stuff I have yet to think of.

oh yeah, and some new speakers for the front doors.


This is going to be interesting. I was on my way to doing the same thing before I totaled my loyale. It's going to be interesting fitting all that gear into the loyale... At least nicely and cleanly. There just isn't room without a major rework of the dash and LOTS of custom work. Be prepared for lots of trail and error. I would also start getting used to using fiber glass if you want it to look good. It's sad, but the loyale is just not setup for added goodies :-\ You can look up my old thread on my stereo install if you want to get some ideas for your install...

You got any pics of the interior/exterior?

#9 Stubies Subie

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 02:23 PM

This is going to be interesting. It's sad, but the loyale is just not setup for added goodies :-\ You can look up my old thread on my stereo install if you want to get some ideas for your install...

You got any pics of the interior/exterior?


I'll get some pictures today, it's bone stock right now.

for the most part, I can get the scanner to fit under the stereo, they are both the same size, and one of my ham radios has a removable face, so that should be pretty easy, the 10 meter radio does not have a removable face, and it's big and bulky, so I'm going to have to do some planning on that one.

I'll look at your old thread and see what you did.

#10 987687

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 03:00 PM

Sorry for crappy picture, but GLs are very happy towing
Posted Image

I tow probably a hundred small boats in the summer with my car. It has a stock ea81, so less power than the 82! It does quite well. Rear disc brake conversion greatly helped with stopping my rig.
And a low range helps get moving with a heavy boat up a steep launching ramp.

#11 Stubies Subie

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 01:31 PM

I tow probably a hundred small boats in the summer with my car. It has a stock ea81, so less power than the 82! It does quite well.


I know I'll have my boat attached when I head to the water, I have a little 10 foot fiberglass Columbian with a 1955 5.5 horse Johnson, perfect little lake boat.

I promosed some interior pictures but was a little slow in getting them posted, plus I'm just starting to learn how to use photo bucket, so lets see if this works.

here's a picture of the stereo that's in it now, nothing special, and it will soon be going in the trash when the car comes home and I can afford the new stereo:

Posted Image

and here's a picture of under the dash, I'm thinking I'll have plenty of room for an aditional rado, the brake controller, ect.

Posted Image

I've also got room for an additional radio here in this little cubby hole under the stereo, this is probably where I'll put the one with the removable face.

Posted Image

by clicking on any of the thumbnails you can see some aditional pictures I took of the interior.

Edited by Stubies Subie, 29 September 2011 - 01:34 PM.


#12 987687

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 01:37 PM

I like the electrical tape over the CHECK ENGINE light. Drove me nuts at night... electrical tape fix ftw.

#13 Stubies Subie

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 01:42 PM

I like the electrical tape over the CHECK ENGINE light. Drove me nuts at night... electrical tape fix ftw.


yup, that check engine light was on when I got the car, the old guy I got it from had put the tape over the light so you couldn't see it, it passed the emissions test witht he light covered, had they seen that light on, they would have failed it on the spot.

once we get the engine back in it and running I or they or we, (one of us) will go after the check engine light issue, I'm sure it's something simple like an O2 senser or something, we haven't pulled the codes out of the ECM yet, but I'm pretty sure once we do, the codes will lead us in the right direction.

I'd rather have that light off, then to just cover it up

#14 987687

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 01:56 PM

Mine has abut 11 codes. But a lot of these cars throw codes for EGR and the evap system. That's probably what most of the codes relate to. And there are some fixes, if you care.

Though, if you do have an O2 code, best to fix that because unlike most of the other codes, that can effect your gas mileage.

#15 Stubies Subie

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 09:16 PM

Here’s a Dutch Tv Commercial featuring a Subaru Forester, with a camping trailer, while I may not have this performance with my little Loyale, its fun to watch anyway.



#16 Stubies Subie

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 11:27 PM

we finished getting the engine torn down today, we got good news and bad news ...

the good news is that we can use the block, the bad news is that it's got a bad cylinder, GD checked it and it's suposed to be no more then 2 thousandths of an inch (.00002") larger then the piston. and that cylinder is sitting about about 5 thousandths of an inch (.00005") bad enough to burn oil. GD estamates about a quart every 1,000 to 2,000 miles.

I don't like that idea, and GD and rugby_subie didn't seem to thrilled about putting the engine back together with that bad cylinder, I can live with it if I have to but my thinking is that maybe we should try to find a good used short block.

I'll put an ad in the clasified to see if anyone local has a good deal on a good SPFI block, crank, and pistons.

meanwhile, here's some more pictures:

here's a picture of the bad cylinder, it's the cylinder on the left
Posted Image

Here's Rugby_Subie hard at work cleaning parts, I don't think he was liking those cam towers to much by this point:
Posted Image

#17 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 01:18 PM

If we buy that other motor. Im not cleaning the cam towers again. We can just use the ones youve got.

:banghead: I got dirt on my shorts!?!?! Crap. I already put them in the dryer :/

#18 Stubies Subie

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 02:46 PM

If we buy that other motor. Im not cleaning the cam towers again. We can just use the ones youve got.

:banghead: I got dirt on my shorts!?!?! Crap. I already put them in the dryer :/


hahaha ...ok, we can use what we got, but maybe another block?

#19 Stubies Subie

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:51 PM

YEE-HAW ...we got a nice low mile engine coming tonight, I'm gonna go check it out later, pictures to follow!!

#20 Stubies Subie

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 09:55 PM

sometimes it pays to take a gamble, I had no idea what I was getting into with this one, but am learning to trust my friends recomendations, GD said get this one, so I did, and it paid off, we've now got a good block with 4 good cylinders, this is what were going to build off of.

it shows nice cross-hatching on all 4 cylinders, it's looking real clean to me inside,

here's a photo of the right side of the block:
Posted Image

and a photo of the left side of the block:
Posted Image

from here, were going to take the best of both engines and make one good one, so we'll use the new good block, my old cam towers, (because the cams have already been sent in to be turned, and Rugby_subie has already cleaned them up, so no sense making him do the sme job twice) and were not 100% sure yet on which heads to use, but we will probably use my old heads, they were in good shape.

oh yeah, one more thing, the new engine has 123,000 on it, it was driving a 3AT, and my old engine has 146,000 miles on it driving a 5 speed.

Edited by Stubies Subie, 02 October 2011 - 09:59 PM.


#21 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 11:22 PM

Youve got some cleaning to do. You need some Lacquer thinner and some paint brushes/wire brushes.

But the nice thing is that its a good motor and youve got some purdy cam towers and valve covers :P you should paint them though.

#22 subcyclist

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 09:22 AM

Following this thread closely as I've always subscribed to the "just enough car to do the job" theory as opposed to the MAX overkill of most of my in debt friends with their "super rigs" that can't afford to drive em...:rolleyes:

#23 Stubies Subie

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 01:33 PM

Following this thread closely as I've always subscribed to the "just enough car to do the job" theory as opposed to the MAX overkill of most of my in debt friends with their "super rigs" that can't afford to drive em...:rolleyes:


And that's exactly what happened to my jeep, I couldn't afford it, the cost of gassing it up verses the mileage it got towing a trailer was terrible.

This will be more within budget for me, and while I don't expect it to do this: I do expect it to do it's intended job for an economical price.

#24 Uberoo

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 10:55 PM

I don't know how actual towing capacities are calculated but I would imagine that weight of tow vehicle,the strength of the parts,the stopping power would all play a bigger role in towing capacity than power.

On the other hand you need power to get the load rolling,and brakes to get it stopped.

Ive towed up to 3500lbs with a 82 Mazda B2200 diesel pickup.50 HP diesel.Not alot of top end power but from a start it would move small hills.Where it really excelled was at braking.While the truck seemed like it was overloaded power wise it stopped straight and didn't get pushed by the trailer one bit.Sure things that were a "speed bump" to my 89 Dodge diesel were a mountain because of the serious lack of top end power it would still do 75 on flat ground. so while power is nice I think brakes are a better indicator of towing capacity.So I would upgrade the brakes on your loyale and go to town.there still is nothing like hammering down the throttle and passing things up hills(and making alot of noise)with my dodge regardless of how much weight is behind it...

#25 Stubies Subie

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 11:33 PM

I don't know how actual towing capacities are calculated but I would imagine that weight of tow vehicle,the strength of the parts,the stopping power would all play a bigger role in towing capacity than power.

Ive towed up to 3500lbs with a 82 Mazda B2200 diesel pickup.50 HP diesel.Not alot of top end power but from a start it would move small hills. I would upgrade the brakes on your loyale and go to town....


I plan on doing the rear disk brake upgrade before I do any major towing, but right now, we're completly focused on getting the engine running and back in the car, from there, more upgrades will be coming.

I've also considered stiffining up the suspension as Loyale 2.7 Turbo talks about here:
http://www.ultimates...ad.php?t=110546




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