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1991 Loyale Wagon - let the build begin.


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#76 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 12:08 AM

Cool - If this didn't work with seafoam I was going to say to try the ATF/Acetone that I have mixed up here. It seemed to do the trick on that rear cylinder with an overnight soak.

Glad to hear it's running smoother. Remember that the compression rings are the first to get cleaned up - that's almost always the case. The oil burning could take multiple treatments to solve and may even be from the cylinders we haven't treated yet because good compression doesn't mean the oil control rings aren't plugged up.

Also - the Seafoam might have thinned the oil....

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder, 12 November 2011 - 12:10 AM.


#77 Stubies Subie

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 02:30 AM

Cool - If this didn't work with seafoam I was going to say to try the ATF/Acetone that I have mixed up here. It seemed to do the trick on that rear cylinder with an overnight soak.

Glad to hear it's running smoother. Remember that the compression rings are the first to get cleaned up - that's almost always the case. The oil burning could take multiple treatments to solve and may even be from the cylinders we haven't treated yet because good compression doesn't mean the oil control rings aren't plugged up.

Also - the Seafoam might have thinned the oil....

GD


I'm guessing that the seafoam thinned the oil, when I started this soaking, it was down a half quart of oil, when I was done soaking, it was down 1/4 quart of oil, so I picked up some seafom in the crankcase from the soaking.

I think the seafoam is working, but figured if it didn’t, I would stop by your house and pick up the acetone ATF mix and try that.

I'm far from done, I'll keep going with it as long as I'm seeing some real progress, taking another compression test will really let us know if it’s working or not.

I haven’t gone after the back side of the pistons and rings aggressively until now, so I’m sure I’m going to get some sort of effect, whether that be good or bad, But, from seeing the cylinders when we had the engine torn down, there was no sign at all that the rings were bad, no wall scoring or anything, as a matter of fact, the original hone marks where still there and very much intact, there was nothing there that would indicate we had a ring problem.

It may take some work, but my guess is that on an engine with 123,00 miles that looked as good as this one did inside, I’m guessing that we’re gonna be able to save it.

I may also feed some water down through some vacuum lines and let it vaporize in the cylinders, that may sound odd to some, but I can remember years ago when I owned an old Chevy Vega that had a ring problem and burned oil, I’d do the water down the carb trick every so often and it actually helped it.

Edited by Stubies Subie, 12 November 2011 - 02:36 AM.


#78 Stubies Subie

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 08:05 PM

Just a quick update>

I drove the car 50 miles today, it still has the marvel mystery oil mixed in the crank case, and it hasn't burned a drop of oil today at all, normally it would be half a quart low right now, so I'd say that to some degree, the cylinder soaking has been a success.

Tomorrow is our road trip, to Mt Saint Helens and back, that will be the real test, but so far, everything is looking good and the car is running 100% better.

#79 Stubies Subie

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 01:38 AM

I took a small day long trip with the car today, we drove up as high as we could (until we hit snow) on Mount Saint Helens in Washington state, the round trip was 340 miles, (we took a few side trips as well.

the car is running 100% better, I ran a can of seafoam through the gas tank, as well as a quart of marvel mystery oil in the crank case, and this was after letting the passenger side cylinders soak in oil for a couple of days last week.

The compression readings have been all over the place since we got the car running, but after doing a compression check tonight after I got back home from out tip, the numbers are looking much better.

The compression check I did a couple of weeks ago read as follows:

Drivers side back cylinder (closest to fire wall) 175 lbs
Drivers side front cylinder (closest to radiator) 115 lbs
Passenger side back cylinder (closest to fire wall) 125 lbs
Passenger side front cylinder (closest to radiator) 135 lbs

The new readings I got tonight read as follows:

Drivers side back cylinder (closest to fire wall) 130 lbs
Drivers side front cylinder (closest to radiator) 175 lbs
Passenger side back cylinder (closest to fire wall) 130 lbs
Passenger side front cylinder (closest to radiator) 130 lbs

I have no idea why that front cylinder when up to 175 from 115, and I have no idea why that back cylinder dropped from 175 to 130, but given the fluxuation, and now the 3 matching cylinders, and the better running engine in general, I’m inclined to believe that the compression is going to stabilize between the 4 cylinders over time.

I’m going to run the Marvel mystery oil in the crank case for a few more days to let it do a bit more cleaning before I change the oil.

Speaking of oil …I discovered something else while out on the trip, I’ve been chasing the wrong oil burning problem, on this trip, I drove a total of 340 miles, and burned ¼ of a quart of oil.

I found that while I thought the car was burning oil, (blow by past the rings) I was wrong, it’s been sucking the oil through the vacuum system and into the intake.

I found this after I soaked those passenger side cylinders last week, after the soaking, the car had considerably more power, and I found that in order to hold any given speed limit, I had to push very little on the throttle, before the soaking, in order to keep up with traffic, I had to have the throttle floored pretty much any time I was on the freeway, and I always smelled burnt oil, and assumed that it was blowing past the rings.

Since I’m no longer holding the throttle down to the floor to keep up with traffic, I’ve noticed that the burnt oil smell has gone away, and when I check the oil, the oil level hasn’t budged.

So today while out on our trip, I put my theory to the test, when I got to the mountains, I pulled over before I started the climb, and checked the oil, it was full, I then kept it floored as much as possible over about a 10 minute stretch, when I got to the top of the mountain pass, I pulled over and checked the oil again, I opened the hood and smelled burnt oil, and noticed I was down ¼ of a quart.

I finished the trip, without pushing the car, and when I got home, I checked the oil again, after 340 miles, and I’m still down ¼ of a quart, that’s the oil I lost going up the mountain when I had it floored.

So, instead of addressing a ring sealing issue, I need to be addressing a vacuum issue, I’m not sure where to start with the oil being sucked through the vacuum lines, but I’ll have to find a way to stop it.

#80 Stubies Subie

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 01:46 AM

Here’s something else that happened on our trip:

Check out the oil pressure reading in the picture:
Posted Image

We got into some pretty deep snow while up on the mountain and it inadvertently got packed pretty good around the oil pressure sending unit. The car ran fine, it just showed high oil pressure, but I believe that the snow shorted out the sending unit.

#81 Stubies Subie

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 01:58 AM

Here’s a few more pictures of our trip –

Here’s the bridge at the foot of the mountains, this is where I stopped to check the oil before we started the climb to the top, the oil level was full:
Posted Image

Here’s a picture of the snow covered highway on our way up:
Posted Image

This is in a parking lot where we turned around to head back down, I had to try out the 4WD and it worked just fine, this is also were we checked the oil level before we headed back down the mountain, we were down ¼ of a quart, I would of gone further, but my girlfriend said no, so we turned around here:
Posted Image

#82 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 12:09 PM

Nice Pictures!

I'm Glad to Read that your Sube's engine is Runnin' Better Now.

About This:


...I believe that the snow shorted out the sending unit.


Let me Tell you that if the Short circuit persist and it make the Needle to raise to the Peak, the Needle will be Damaged: it happened to my Subie, now the Needle reads Under the Low mark... So I Kindly suggest you to Check there ASAP.

Also, the Thinner Oil + Marvel Mistery Oil could have increased the Overall pressure and Might not be a Wrong reading.

Kind Regards.


#83 Quidam

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 12:54 PM

"There are a few things Id like to do with your .02...

That I shall not mention..."

I think you should spit it out. I'll get back to this now that I have the time.

Doug

Edit: That quote/threat was posted by rugby subaru. My computer was hacked in the last week, money spent and damage done. He works for a "card carrying software engineer" BTW.

Edited by Quidam, 14 November 2011 - 10:32 PM.


#84 Stubies Subie

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 02:37 PM

I'll get back to this now that I have the time.

Doug



How about you don't get back to this, it's been peaceful here since you haven't been posting, and I’d rather you didn't start again.

If you have useful information, we'll be happy to hear it, but you will NOT be running anyone down, not in this thread. If you do, you will be reported for harassment.

It is ok to disagree; it is not ok to degrade someone based on your feelings about their abilities or mechanical procedures.

Thank you

#85 Qman

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 02:57 PM

"There are a few things Id like to do with your .02...

That I shall not mention..."

I think you should spit it out. I'll get back to this now that I have the time.

Doug


How about you don't get back to this, it's been peaceful here since you haven't been posting, and I’d rather you didn't start again.

If you have useful information, we'll be happy to hear it, but you will NOT be running anyone down, not in this thread. If you do, you will be reported for harassment.

It is ok to disagree; it is not ok to degrade someone based on your feelings about their abilities or mechanical procedures.

Thank you


I think both of you will stop. I don't know the history. I don't really need to either. Any more and there will be time outs, temporary or permanent, you will decide.

#86 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 04:28 PM

Let me Tell you that if the Short circuit persist and it make the Needle to raise to the Peak, the Needle will be Damaged: it happened to my Subie, now the Needle reads Under the Low mark... So I Kindly suggest you to Check there ASAP.


You make an excellent point and that can indeed happen. The needle is only a friction fit with the gauge's "drive shaft" so-to-speak - so that it can be pushed by the stop pin and then it will read innacurately. It could be taken apart and readjusted and zero'ed out again with the adjuster inside the gauge but it's a pain.

GD

#87 Stubies Subie

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 06:28 PM

thanks Jeszek, I stopped by GD's house on my way to work and he disconnected the sending unit, I'll have to buy a new one, seems this one went bad.

and you bring up a good point about the oil being thinner raising the oil pressure, but it's my thinking that the thinner the oil, the lower the pressure, the oil pressure gauge worked normally all day until I hit the deep snow, so my first guess was that it shorted out the sending unit when it got packed with snow.

the car's running really good now, and I'd say the engine issues I was having are now solved, I will however need to do something about the oil being sucked through the vacuum lines, but for now, as long as I keep my foot out of it, it does not suck oil.

Nice Pictures!

I'm Glad to Read that your Sube's engine is Runnin' Better Now.

About This:




Let me Tell you that if the Short circuit persist and it make the Needle to raise to the Peak, the Needle will be Damaged: it happened to my Subie, now the Needle reads Under the Low mark... So I Kindly suggest you to Check there ASAP.

Also, the Thinner Oil + Marvel Mistery Oil could have increased the Overall pressure and Might not be a Wrong reading.

Kind Regards.



#88 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 08:53 PM

You're Welcome! ... I'm Glad that you Fixed your engine's Rings problem. :)

... I will however need to do something about the oil being sucked through the vacuum lines, but for now, as long as I keep my foot out of it, it does not suck oil.


If the Problem is that the PCV Sucks oil and it goes to the Vacuum Lines thru the intake manifold; I Solved a Similar problem in my BumbleBeast Subaru, by adding an Oil Catch Can (Oil / Fumes separator) to the 5/8" Hose that comes with Fumes (and oil blown-by on my Subie) from the Passenger's Side head cover, Prior to route it to the PCV valve.

Pics here, at the end of this Post:

http://www.ultimates...39&postcount=10

Hope this can Help.
Kind Regards.

#89 bigjimd

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 09:32 PM

Good to see you got her going so well!

#90 Stubies Subie

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:25 PM

Thanks bigjimd, I'm excited to have it running normal now, and that grumble rumble from the torque cams is really nice, that's the first time I've ever had any form of custom work done to anything, so I'm very pleased.

I want to inhance the grumble rumble a little more so I'm going to figure out some sort of custon exhaust.

About the oil sucking Jeszek -
Subaru has a PCV hose mod that looks like the picture:
Posted Image

I’m going to try that first, and see if the oil sucking stops, then from there I can try an oil catch can.

Jeszek – can you describe the oil burning experience you had that lead to you using an oil catch can?

I’m really excited that the engine problems are finally working themselves out, I felt that I couldn't move forward with the car until I had the engine problems worked out, I don’t see the oil sucking as any kind of problem, just something that needs fixed is all.

I have so many plans for this car, you’ll see a transformations in it over the next couple of years, I have ideas that are to numerous to list, but will be posting every one of them as I do them.

Now that the engine problems are behind me (I hope/think) I can move on to the other stuff

#91 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 11:01 PM

... Jeszek – can you describe the oil burning experience you had that lead to you using an oil catch can? ...


Yes, My BumbleBeast has near 300,000 Miles of Rude, Hard Driving, 65% of that under our Caribbean Heavy Weather conditions and we have many unpaved roads... So Dust might worn the Rings enough to let the Driver's side head to Blow a certain amount of Oil thru its 5/8" Hose.

I Run it with Motul 20W~50 Mineral oil.

Since my BumbleBeast is Carbureted, the oil originally went to the Air filter's Box and sometimes to the old craptachi's carb throat; so when I Swapped the Weber carb in year 2006, I first let the Hoses "Open" (unhooked) while I obtained the Oil Catch can to avoid that Oil in the intake.

My Subaru came Brand new from the Dealer in California (USA) in 1985, Straight to Honduras... all across Mexico & Central America. I Can't imagine a Better way to Break New any engine... The EA82 Keeps Runnin' Strong and Compression tests gives me Great Numbers; so There's no Real Need to Change the Piston Rings.

I've only Changed the Heads for the Third Gen EA82 Heads in 1995, due to a Head Gasket Failure and overheating, my Dad poured fresh water and Broke the Original Head.

Beside that Heads and the Weber Swap, I've only modified the intake (you can read further here) and I Changed the Vacuum advance, from dual ports to a Single Port one. (Better for the Weber) on that engine, plus an Accel SuperStock Coil.

Kind Regards.

Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 14 November 2011 - 11:04 PM.
add web link


#92 Stubies Subie

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 12:11 AM

Yes, My BumbleBeast has near 300,000 Miles of Rude, Hard Driving,

OK, I was wondering if you expernced the same problem I did, but yours being carbed and mine being SPFI, my problem may not be the same as yours.

mine only sucks oil when you have the throttle shoved all the way to the floor.

I'm going to find the parts I need to change mine over at a wrecking yard, and see if the oil sucking goes away:D

#93 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 12:16 AM

I'm Sure you'll Fix it! ... The Drawing shows some parts to Fix that issue on the SPFi EA82 engines that might be Still availabe at the Subaru Dealer.

Good Luck!
Kind Regards.

#94 Stubies Subie

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 04:52 PM

Yesterday was my son’s birthday, (the big “21”) and his wife had a surprise birthday party planned for him and wanted me to keep him busy and out of her way until later in the afternoon.


I seized the opportunity!


Some say you might be a redneck if you take your son on an afternoon excursion to the wrecking yard for his 21st birthday, I figured I had a young kid that was able bodied with a good back, and I was gonna exercise my right as his dad to make him work on his birthday, so off to the wrecking yard we went.


We scored to ….there was quite a few Loyales out there, and while I didn’t have a bunch of money to spend, I figured I’d make count what little money I did have.


We had a fun filled afternoon checking out all the wrecked cars, and were able to pick up a few bits and pieces here and there for KC (My Loyale).


I got some tailgate hardware as mine was rusted out, and the hose that goes from the passenger side valve cover to the intake, mine had a pretty good crack in it, and when I looked inside one car, it had a brand new set of Contitech (made in Mexico) timing belts for an EA82 sitting on the passenger seat, the belts still had the store tag on them, total cost for everything, $5.50
Posted Image


So now I have a brand new spare set of timing belts to put with my little tool kit in the back of the car, I thought that was a pretty good score. And my kids still think I’m nuts for dragging them to the wrecking yard :D

#95 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 01:39 AM

Nice score! Were you not able to find the proper PCV routing parts for the oil-burning retro-fit?

GD

#96 Stubies Subie

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 04:25 AM

Nice score! Were you not able to find the proper PCV routing parts for the oil-burning retro-fit?

GD


Nope, that was the reason I went, I was looking for the retro-fit parts, but they didn't have them on anything, at least not in that wrecking yard.

those parts will turn up, just gotta keep looking :D

#97 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:39 AM

Could I Ask if you already checked at your local subaru dealer for the availability of those parts?

Also, I forgot to say that I Really Like This Picture:

Posted Image

You Run your EA82 without timing belts' covers, isn't it?

I've just taken off the ones on my BumbleBeast aswell...

Kind Regards.

Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 21 November 2011 - 11:40 AM.


#98 Stubies Subie

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 03:49 PM

Could I Ask if you already checked at your local subaru dealer for the availability of those parts?


I haven't checked with the dealer yet, but do have the part number for the kit, but I believe it's around $50 or so to purchase it from the dealer, so I figured I'd look in wrecking yards first, if I can't locate one in a wrecking yard, then I'll end up going to the dealer

Also, I forgot to say that I Really Like This Picture:


oh that picture .....um, well, I was having a personal bonding moment with my new engine at the time that photo was taken. it was one of those, "in order to understand the engine, you must become one with the engine" it's an ancient chinese myth I think

You Run your EA82 without timing belts' covers, isn't it?


yup, no covers on mine, I like it better that way, my intended use for this car is going to be a camping traveling car and I wanted something cheap, simple and easy to fix in the event that I broke down on the side of the highway somewhere.

#99 Stubies Subie

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 06:15 PM

The starter went out in ol’ KC, and being short on money right now due to Christmas, I had settle for a used starter out of the wrecking yard, or so I thought.

Someone in another thread had suggested that I stop off at the Subaru dealer and get a set of copper contacts for the wrecking yard starter, which I did.

The Subaru Dealer isn’t to far from General Disorders house, so on my way to the wrecking yard, I stopped off at GD’s place to show him the contacts and make sure I got the right ones.

GD happened to have a nice used starter out of a Legacy that he said would bolt right up and work fine, so I traded him the new contacts for it and when back home for the install.

It worked perfect, and in my opinion, it might have been a little easier to install then a Loyale starter due to the fact that it’s a little smaller and easer to work with.

Anyway, I thought I’d post a few pics of both starters so you can see the difference, the contact points on my starter were fried, so I didn’t want to rebuild it, the one I got from GD was much nicer, ….Thanks GD.

Here’s some pictures so you can see the different between the starters.
Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#100 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 06:23 PM

Thank you for Posting the Comparison Photos and the GD's Great idea about the EJ Starter on the EA Engine, I'm sure it will be So Useful.

I'm Glad to Know KC is Again on the Road.

Kind Regards.




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