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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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1991 Loyale Wagon - let the build begin.


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144 replies to this topic

#126 Stubies Subie

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 04:57 AM

I got my camera working so I got some pictures, and a bunch of questions, I’m looking for opinions.


I’m just going slow and easy on this one, it doesn’t matter to me how long the car is laid up, I got other transportation, and I want to make sure I got this fixed right,


I completely tore out the passenger side as you can see in the picture:
Posted Image

Having it torn down this far got me to thinking, how far into this do I want to go? What’s going to be “worth it” and what would be a “waste of money”?

When the car is running, it doesn’t have a lot of rattles and squeaks other then the loose shields around the exhaust system which I am going to address, for the most part, the car drives very solid and tight.

I looked at all the bushings under the front end (sway bar and lower control arm bushings) and they actually look to be in good shape, so I don't know that replacing them would be a benifit or not.

I checked out the front axel real close, the boots are intact, it doesn’t look to be that old, and seems to be in good shape, so my thought is to leave it be and not replace it, but having the car this far apart, should I replace it anyway? (Just for good measure?)

One problem I do have, which is common on all EA82’s is the camber, the front tires sit on the ground like this: \\>----------<// the passenger side is worse then the drivers side. And I want to be able to get the best alignment out of it that I can, so I was wondering, should I replace the front strut rod with an adjustable one? I haven’t looked close enough yet but maybe they’re all adjustable and mine is fine?

This would allow the caster to be adjusted, so is it a good idea or not?

This is the adjustable strut rod:
Posted Image


The ball joint felt tight, but kind of rusty, and I knocked the rubber boot off of it when I was pulling it out of the knuckle, my idea is to replace it, they aren’t that expensive, what do you think?

Here’s the old ball joint:
Posted Image

And what about the struts? Mine seem fine, but they do have 150,000 miles on them, so is it time to replace them or keep using them? I was going to use them, but had thought about maybe adding an adjustable camber plate as seen here:
Posted Image

It seems like one would be fairly easy to adapt to the car, they make them for a Legacy, and from what I read, the bolt pattern is almost identical to the loyale, so is it a good idea or not? Would it be worth adding to get the tires on a more even plain like this:
II>------<II I do at some point plan on doing a 2 inch SJR lift.

I did get new bearings for the knuckle, the sealed type I found them on ebay for about $8.00 each delivered:
Posted Image

I have yet to clean up the knuckle and still having found a part number for both the front and rear seals, so I haven’t ordered the seals yet, the knuckle looks fine to me, not bent or anything so I’m not sure what’s giving me the extra positive camber on the passenger side, it’s quite a bit more then on the drivers side.

Here’s a couple of pictures of the knuckle:

Here’s the back:
Posted Image
And

And here’s the front:
Posted Image



I also scored a good deal on a new in the box Beck/Arnley oil pressure sending unit for $20 delivered to my door, about half of the auto parts store prices, that should take care of the high oil pressure readings I was getting before I unplugged the old sending unit:
Posted Image

I also still need to buy the new rebuilt cliper, I made an offer on one on ebay but the guy never answered back, and he had quite a bit of bad feed back so I figured I'd keep looking for another good deal.

Edited by Stubies Subie, 30 December 2011 - 05:01 AM.


#127 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 10:43 AM

Get the wheel bearing seals at Discount - $6 each or so.

Positive camber differences could be due to incorrect strut or spring parts having been used on one wheel.... that's the usual reason. Or something being bent.

Ball joints are cheap - I would replace them. If you can move the joint around by hand - it's old. New one's are very stiff.

I've never seen an adjustable leading rod and the picture you posted doesn't look adjustable to me either. The only alignment adjustment in the front of the EA82's is the toe adjustment. You could adjust camber with crash bolts at the lower control arm mount..... cheaper than strut plates. But I would be going for new struts/springs first.

Bring the knuckles by after you clean them up and we can drift out the bearings and install the new one's. I have a custom tool for installing the bearings and you can bead-blast the knuckles and paint them before installing them. :grin:

GD

#128 Stubies Subie

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 12:11 AM

Progress has been slow, mainly because I’m buying another car, and I’m working to get it paid off ASAP

It’s a 92’ Legacy, nothing special, just a very clean older car, it will be the DD so I can keep working on KC and turn him into a garage king weekend warrior:
Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Meanwhile, because all my money is going into the Legacy, I haven’t been able to afford the parts needed to get ol’ KC (the Loyale) back up and running, but that’s ok, I’m getting extra time to do a few extra little things to it that I’d not normally be able to do.

Today I tagged along with GD as he went to the wrecking yard and was able to pick up a few little bits and peaces for KC like a set of clean tail light wiring assemblies as mine are kind of trashed, I also got a couple of those coned washers that go between the hub and axel, I have a bad one on my car, and it was amazing, I knocked apart 6 or 7 front hub axle assemblies and only came up with 2 usable cone washers, so those being bad must be a really common problem.

I also got 3 of the PVC hose bypass kits, the very one I just got done paying 50 bucks for because I couldn’t find a used one, lo and behold, 3 of them show up today at the wrecking yard, I grabbed them all, so if anyone needs one to help stop your EA82 from sucking oil, let me know.

After the wrecking yard adventure it was back to GD’s place for my first chance to try out his new bead blaster, I cleaned up all the passenger side front end parts and got them ready for painting (except for the hub, because old age caught up with me and I tired out)

As can be seen in the picture, GD’s bead blaster cleaned the parts up good as new.
Posted Image

I’ll pick up a couple of rattle cans of gloss black engine enamel and give the parts a good painting; it should look really good when it goes back together.

Sometimes it really benefits the job when your not in a rush and you take your time.

Edited by Stubies Subie, 08 January 2012 - 12:35 AM.


#129 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 02:26 AM

Shhhh!!!! Cant be advertising his bead blaster like that lol :clap:

I might have to come when we store Ned and start bead blasting everything and painting it... those look amazing :clap:

#130 Stubies Subie

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 06:52 AM

Shhhh!!!! Cant be advertising his bead blaster like that lol :clap:

I might have to come when we store Ned and start bead blasting everything and painting it... those look amazing :clap:


I might have to get them special lights under the fenders just to show off my fancy cleaning and paint work :D

Edited by Stubies Subie, 16 January 2012 - 06:23 PM.


#131 Stubies Subie

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 03:56 PM

Being kinda broke, one has to find creative ways to continue working and repairing their car, and with all the spare cash going into the Legacy, and still wanting to work on the Loyale, I had remembered that my girlfriends parents gave me a $25 Harbor freight gift card for Christmas, so I wanted to show you what that 25 bucks got me today:

First up on the list is a pair of masking tape and paper cutting shears used for the prep work before painting: FREE
Posted Image

Next up on the list is a can of caliper paint, says it’s good to 900 degrees, I should be able to paint everything with this stuff: $4.60
Posted Image

Next up is a new torque wrench to make sure I get everything tightened down properly, and because my old torque wrench was trashed:, $19.99
Posted Image

And last but not least, a new front end alignment tool so I can make sure everything measures out properly after I put the car back together: FREE Posted Image

I think I’m going to start out by doing some masking and some painting tonight :D

Edited by Stubies Subie, 08 January 2012 - 04:01 PM.


#132 6 Star

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 06:53 PM

I don't know how well I would trust that $20 torque wrench. :-\
A few years back I was rebuilding an ea82 and I ended up stripping a thread in the block because the cheap torquewrench I bought wouldn't click at the correct pressure. Be careful. :eek:

#133 Stubies Subie

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 12:18 AM

I don't know how well I would trust that $20 torque wrench. :-\
A few years back I was rebuilding an ea82 and I ended up stripping a thread in the block because the cheap torquewrench I bought wouldn't click at the correct pressure. Be careful. :eek:


Thanks for the heads up UberScoober, I did a little googling after I read your post to see if I could find some reviews on that torque wrench.

This is one that sells for almost $40 and with discounts and coupons, I got it for $20.

For the most part, it seems to have good reviews other then a few that were broken out of the box which mine was not.

I did see a few warnings about the possibility of it being out of calibration because of being a cheap wrench, but no actual reports from people that have used the torque wrench saying this is a problem.

My main reason for buying it was to torque the big hub castle nuts down to 150 foot pounds, I wasn’t to concerned about torquing the smaller bolts where I think the bolt breakage concern comes in.

Next time I get a chance to get over to GD’s place, I’ll take it with me and see if we can compare it, or calibrate it against one of his good ones before I actually start using it.

#134 Stubies Subie

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:18 PM

I did some more prep work on the car parts:

I went over to GD’s place and did some more bead blasting, and some touch up bead blast work on some parts I had done previously but had missed a few spots, and I finally got everything ready to paint.

With it snowing today and kind of being stuck homebound, I decided to do some painting,

I had picked up some Rust-Oleum caliper paint at Harbor freight for about $4.50 for a 12 oz. can, and I really like the stuff, it goes on easy, says it’s good to 900 degrees, lays on somewhat thick, so it covers the little imperfections.

Posted Image

The Hub has two coats of paint on it and I’m going to call that good, I think it came out looking really good:

Posted Image

I’ve also got 2 coats of paint on this backing plate, which came out looking good:

Posted Image

Here’s the Caliper mounting bracket, it’s in the shop still drying:

Posted Image

This is the steering Knuckle, it’s going to need some more touch up work after it drys and I remove the masking tape:

Posted Image

When I get a chance to do the drivers side, I’ll handle it the same way, so by the time this is done, it should luck pretty much brand new up under the front end.

I know I’m slow at this, but I’m enjoying taking my time and doing these little extras.

#135 Quidam

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 06:38 AM

How about you don't get back to this, it's been peaceful here since you haven't been posting, and I’d rather you didn't start again.

If you have useful information, we'll be happy to hear it, but you will NOT be running anyone down, not in this thread. If you do, you will be reported for harassment.

It is ok to disagree; it is not ok to degrade someone based on your feelings about their abilities or mechanical procedures.

Thank you


This wasn't based on "feelings", and I did/do have usefull information. There are cars now that come without a gasket, and I assure you the engineers have taken this into considration and given what they think the motor needs for oil pickup tube to oil pan clearance.

GD and others have taken up replacing a .070" oil pan gasket with anerobic/silicone. I don't believe he thought this through as to what happens when it's freezing out and the oil is really thick, or what happens at high RPM.

Consider the "Discharge performance" of your oil pump. At "5000 rpm, 167-185*" you're looking at 8.2 gal/minute flow. That's from the FSM and if you wind your car up under load to 6500 rpm, which any EA 82 will do that I've known of, it's even more. At idle it's flowing 0.5 gal/min.

Now consider oil pans can and do get damaged. Someone throws a block of wood on top the jack and even lifts the engine that way, I assure you they're going to close the gap up some as well.

I've taken multiple measurements on two different oil pans and here is what that looks like. I can post more.
Posted Image

One stock pan I didn't know was damaged until I looked closely at it. Thinking back, it was a three inch diameter black walnut limb that got jammed up there and I did have the factory skid plate on it. That's the pan on the left. Without gasket in the rear measured .280", front measured .370", passenger side .300", and drivers side .400". Now the drivers side has that clearance near the front corner and if you look closely at the pans you have you'll see they're designed a certain way. From looking at the pans closely I'm pretty sure the oil spirals up into the pickup tube.
Posted Image

The pan on the right was damaged too, it doesn't take much to close the gap up some. I hammered it out and actually stretched it some. Oh, the baffles are removed from it and I took a wooden mallett chucked up in the vise and slammed the pan against it. Anyway, with those baffles in, it's kind of tough to straighten one of these out, but it can be done, of course.

Without the gasket this pan measures .340" rear, .420" front, .350 passenger side, .460" drivers side. Of course add .070" to all those figures with the gasket.

If you think Subaru gave you too much clearance there, go ahead and leave the gasket out. How cold is your oil right now and do you think it has an easy time getting sucked up into the tube?

Consider for a performance Subaru, you should have 5/8" to 3/4" clearance pan to pickup.

Lots more to this but, your call. I know a professional shop wouldn't dare leave it out and risk the liability "should" something go wrong. But worse, he's still advising other people here to do it. His strong suit isn't engines, not long ago he was advising people to overtorque head bolts and distort the bore. But it's clear to me he wasn't trained for it. And I am being nice, to say the least. Things like telling people a Frankenmotor will put out 180/200 hp. I could go on.

Doug

Edited by Quidam, 30 January 2012 - 08:01 AM.


#136 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:41 AM

This wasn't based on "feelings", and I did/do have usefull information. There are cars now that come without a gasket, and I assure you the engineers have taken this into considration and given what they think the motor needs for oil pickup tube to oil pan clearance.


First of all - lets take a look at a "newer" car shall we?

2006, 300 HP STi factory pickup tube:

Posted Image

Notice the hole in the bottom that is only the size of the pickup tube itself.

GD and others have taken up replacing a .070" oil pan gasket with anerobic/silicone. I don't believe he thought this through as to what happens when it's freezing out and the oil is really thick, or what happens at high RPM.


STOP! Backup. The pan gasket is NOT .070" when it's been torqued in place by the bolts. When it's torqued it's .030".

Consider the "Discharge performance" of your oil pump. At "5000 rpm, 167-185*" you're looking at 8.2 gal/minute flow. That's from the FSM and if you wind your car up under load to 6500 rpm, which any EA 82 will do that I've known of, it's even more. At idle it's flowing 0.5 gal/min.


And? What's your point?

Now consider oil pans can and do get damaged. Someone throws a block of wood on top the jack and even lifts the engine that way, I assure you they're going to close the gap up some as well.


Really stupid to lift an engine by the oil pan.

Sure pans get damaged. Sometimes it kills the engine. However - notice the little "tits" on the bottom of the STi pickup tube.... those are in case the pan get's crushed. Check out how tiny they are. That is enough oil flow to keep the engine from being starved (though I wouldn't risk putting it to the test - that is the idea behind them) . Pretty tiny.

I've taken multiple measurements on two different oil pans and here is what that looks like. I can post more.
Posted Image


Perfect! Thank you! That proves my point. The sides of your clay cylinder there are many times larger in area than the tiny little tube that it feeds. Compare the area of the sides of your cylinder to the area described by that STi pickup hole I just posted. Its MANY TIMES larger than a 300 HP EJ257 pickup tube hole!!!

Without the gasket this pan measures .340" rear, .420" front, .350 passenger side, .460" drivers side. Of course add .070" to all those figures with the gasket.

If you think Subaru gave you too much clearance there, go ahead and leave the gasket out. How cold is your oil right now and do you think it has an easy time getting sucked up into the tube?

Consider for a performance Subaru, you should have 5/8" to 3/4" clearance pan to pickup.


Where the hell did these numbers come from? It's all fine an dandy to pull numbers out of your rump roast but expect to get called on it Doug. What "performance" Subaru source did this "5/8 to 3/4" measurement come from? I call BS. No math - just throwing numbers around - doesn't impress me or the crowd. Subaru didn't agree with you and your own measurements (though they are flawed because you didn't account for gasket crush) support that.

not long ago he was advising people to overtorque head bolts and distort the bore.


And how do you know it would distort the bore? For the record I do torque the EA head gaskets to 50 ft/lbs (a whole 3 ft/lbs more than the 47 in the book) in order to insure I don't have to retorque them. It's never distorted a block, it's never pulled out threads, and I've NEVER had a repeat HG failure. So emperical evidence would sugest it's not a problem.

Further - not a single engine I have built using a gasket replacement adhesive has failed. You haven't shown any evidence that supports your claim. Nothing but speculation. Nothing to even refute my measurements or my math from my previous post.

Things like telling people a Frankenmotor will put out 180/200 hp. I could go on.


If you read any of the dyno reports on them you would know that 180 to 190 is accurate. If and when I say "200" I always say "about" because the discussion is not talking about specifics just general performance.

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder, 30 January 2012 - 01:34 PM.


#137 Stubies Subie

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:16 PM

Just an update on Ol' KC

He’s been garage bound now for a couple of months, but I have been slowly buying parts here and there and cleaning and fixing little problems with the car.

Today I got the legacy paid off, so it should be coming home in the next few days. That will leave me a little more money to work on Ol’ KC.

As for ol' KC, I have gotten the old parts cleaned up and painted; GD drove in the new knuckle bearings and seals.

I replaced the broken headlight (thanks Ed for the new headlight); I also got a set of Flosser 100/80 watt bulbs for it along with a pair of ceramic socket extensions.

I replaced the oil sending unit, readjusted the clutch, (I had it adjusted wrong to begin with)

I got new brake pads, new brake fluid (dot 4) new ball joint, new control rod end, and miscellaneous other parts, I still need a caliper though, maybe next payday? :D

It’s going to be going back together pretty soon, pictures to follow

#138 Stubies Subie

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:14 PM

OL' KC is back on the road and running better then ever, today GD finished up the wiring for the extra cooling fan, so all is good now.

I'm going to work towards getting the Legacy running now, then I'll go back to working on OL' KC once I get the Legacy on the road.

#139 Stubies Subie

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:49 AM

We finally got a chance to get the car out for an adventure yesterday, we had fun, the car did great, had no problems with it at all.

We headed east from home looking for some wide open spaces:

Posted Image

It didn’t take us long, an hour and a half later, we were enjoying this:

Posted Image

And this:

Posted Image

But we really wanted to get some off road time in, so we went looking for some less then perfect dirt roads that might lead us to some nice picnic areas:

Posted Image

Before long, he had found us the perfect picnic spot, not a soul around for miles, the dog got to run free, it was very nice and peaceful:

Posted Image

After we were done with the picnic, I really wanted to get off the beaten path, then I came across this really cool abandoned road, that had been blocked off but dirt mound that proved to be no problem at all:

Posted Image

Once I got over the dirt mound, we had a mile or so of abandoned highway to explore:

Posted Image

Which we did, and the dog loved it:

Posted Image

#140 Stubies Subie

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:07 PM

This last weekend, We got to take the car down to Pacific City and go 4 wheeling with the big boys, we were the smallest car on the beach, and had no troubles at all ……

Until I got home .. Last night on my way home from work, the alternator went out, it went into over voltage mode, and was pegging 18 volts on the dash gauge, plus the oil pressure gauge pegged as well, but man where the lights bright on the way home from work … wow!

I got up this morning and called General Disorder and told him about my alternator problem, and he said “bring it over, we’ll fix it.”

So today I got my 90 amp Nissan Altima alternator upgrade, wow, I watched that guy work on the install and from start to finish it took him about 15 minutes, it was the simplest upgrade I’ve ever seen.

I know progress on this car has been slow, do to many different financial interferences, but here in the not too distant future maybe I’ll be able to pick up the pace and get a few more things done to it.

So far, it’s running well, we had a few ignitional bugs to work out of it, but to date, it’s running better and better.

I’m not sure what I’m going to do next, I was thinking maybe wheels and tires, so I’m on the lookout for a set of front hubs, and rear drums I can pick up cheap to do a 6 lug re-drill on.

The tires on the car are pretty well shot, so I may just buy a cheap set of 13 inch tires and call it “good” for now, I’ll go to a 14 inch 6 lug if I can round up the parts quick enough (money providing) but that would require drums and hubs, wheels and the re-drilling.

Edited by Stubies Subie, 01 May 2012 - 07:21 PM.


#141 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:09 PM

Might as well do 6 lug disc rears instead of drums :)

#142 Stubies Subie

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:37 PM

Might as well do 6 lug disc rears instead of drums :)


I would but I have to be able to find a set of rear disks, whenever a set shows up, I'm usually a day late and a dollar or two short

#143 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:49 PM

I would but I have to be able to find a set of rear disks, whenever a set shows up, I'm usually a day late and a dollar or two short


We can probably find a set when we visit junkyards

#144 Stubies Subie

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:10 PM

it's been a while since I had a chance to update this thread, mainly because I hadn't done anything to the car that was worthy of posting until today.

I finally got a trailer hitch for the Loyale, I found a Curt brand 1-1/4 receiver for $114 online, and finally got it installed on the car tonight, when I went to bolt it to the bottom of the bumper, I discovered that the bumper was completely rotted out, so I had to go to the wrecking yard and get a good bumper that wasn’t rusty, it turns out that it was nicer then my old one anyway.

After some grumping and cussing, I finally took what I had over to General Disorders place and asked him to help me get it mounted which he did. I can now tow my little utility trailer.

Posted Image
http://s1239.beta.ph...0_2895.jpg.html

Speaking of utility trailers, I spent, the most part of Saturday rebuilding the old rotted out rack that was on it. I salvaged what boards I could, replaced what I couldn't salvage, and put it all back together, the rack isn't as tall as it was before, but that's ok, it's still going to get the job done :D)

Posted Image
http://s1239.beta.ph...0_2894.jpg.html

I also got some parts from GD for the Legacy, so I get to update that thread tonight as well.

Edited by Stubies Subie, 25 November 2012 - 11:16 PM.


#145 Stubies Subie

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:35 PM

just another update :D

I don't seem to keep on up these updates very well but since we got moved, so I figured it’s time to update this thread.

We don’t have a shop yet at the new house, (got the pad laid, but no building yet) so any car work I’ve wanted to do myself has had to be on the gravel driveway out in the cold wet rain …not fun, and as a result, the car has kind of slowly been falling apart.

The car has been working really well throughout the move, with the new tires and new 2.25 inch exhaust, it has been doing fine hauling the utility trailer, load after load with no complaints.

But …..

the brake lights never worked from the day I bought the car, so I drove it for a good year without them, got stopped by the cops on 3 different occasions for other reasons but the non working brake lights were never questioned.

I never have gotten the wiring done for the rear view mirror, which has been somewhat frustrating, but not having the time, and not wanting to do it in the driveway in the rain; I just kind of kept putting it off.

one nasty stormy rainy day after Christmas, I set out with the utility trailer to go pick up a clothes dryer for the house, and on the way, the drivers window rolled down, and stayed down, wouldn’t go back up, and the window switch on the drives door wouldn’t move any of the windows, I kind of suspected that the wiring harness that goes into the door had failed. The ride became wet and miserable.

That was the last straw; I wasn’t going to deal with it any more, fortunately, I had just gotten the legacy licensed and on the road, which gave us a spare car, which allowed me to live without the Loyale for a little while, so off to General Disorder it went ..

I showed up at his place with a list of problems, and left it.

The door wiring was a nightmare, apart came the door, off came the front fender out came the wiring harness and a few hours later, GD had a new section spliced in and the window switch was again working.

Next came the brake lights, he traced those wires from the brake pedal all the way back to the tail lights trying to chase down the fault …finally found a wire had separated in a plug behind the glove-box. I now have working brake lights!!

Next came the mirror wiring, and he did a great job on that to, through the head liner, down the windshield pillar, and to the fuse block for power, he put the temperature sensor behind the license plate, perfect spot for it I think. And the reverse cut off wire went to the reverse switch, so now the headlights of the cars behind me on the freeway at night aren’t so blinding, and the mirror dimmer shuts down when in reverse like it’s supposed to, the compass works great so I know what direction I’m goin and now that I’m living on top of a mountain, I know the roads are freezing before I go in a ditch because the temperature readout in the mirror warns me.




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