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98 OBW, death by driving it HOT


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16 replies to this topic

#1 Rooster2

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 11:48 AM

My wife trashed the engine in our 98 OBW last night. She said earlier in the day that the car had stalled at a traffic light, but easily restarted. With a new tank of gas after a heavy rain, I thought maybe some water in the new gas, so I added a bottle of "dry gas" to the gas tank.

Later she went out with her girlfriend to a meeting, then called me a 10 PM, saying she had an awful time keeping the motor running. She said it stalled 6 times, before reaching her friend's home. Friend's husband checked the car to find the water temp pegged to HOT. I started the motor this morning to find it slightly knocking with little oil on the dip stick, and low on water. I had checked the oil 3 weeks ago, to know that the oil level was fine. I haven't gotten any further into looking at the motor, but highly suspect it blew a head gasket, and my wife drove on to cook the engine. I continually reminded her over the years to keep an eye on the water temp gauge, but I don't think she EVER listened to me. Stupid is, as stupid does.

Pretty sure the motor is shot, so it will prolly come down to either replacing the engine, or letting it go to a wrecking yard. The car body is in fair to good shape for a 98. It is nicely appointed as it is the "Limited" model. Everything worked well on the car. Decisions, decisions, what will I do. I will prolly scour wrecking yards tomorrow for an engine.

#2 grossgary

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:24 PM

doesn't sound too good on multiple levels.

you only *need* a block if you can find an EJ25 to bolt your heads to - bent valves or something. if you think your cams weren't oil starved.

EJ22 swap?

#3 Rooster2

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:58 PM

doesn't sound too good on multiple levels.

you only *need* a block if you can find an EJ25 to bolt your heads to - bent valves or something. if you think your cams weren't oil starved.

EJ22 swap?


Update........I added about a quart and half of oil, and filled up the radiator and over flow. I started the motor, it seems to run okay, but has a slight "sing sing" noise from driver's side of the engine. Is that what cams sound like when starved for oil? It doesn't sound like a rod knock, but a noise just the same.

After driving around the block a couple of times, the motor still has plenty of power. I checked the rad over flow tank looking for bubbles. Yep, the bubbles are there, so it is a bad HG for sure. There also seems to be extra water vapor (steam), and water drops coming out the end of the tail pipe, when motor is idling. I just don't know how long the motor was driven hot, to know what internal damage there may be. Maybe heads are warped? Any way of determining that? Would a compression test tell me anything? Car has 146K miles on the odo. Any advise appreciated.

#4 john in KY

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:42 PM

Guessing you could get a feel for how hot the engine got by removing the T-belt covers. If melted that to me is a pretty good indication the engine got really hot.

#5 Rooster2

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 05:05 PM

Guessing you could get a feel for how hot the engine got by removing the T-belt covers. If melted that to me is a pretty good indication the engine got really hot.


Good thought, I will do that tomorrow. Thanks!

#6 efseiler

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:38 PM

Keep in mind that periodically checking the coolant level is very important.

On dry days...after long, grueling drives it is not uncommon for a substantial amount of water to evaporate anyway from the reservoir.


This is what my brother did to one Subie he owned...he blew a headgasket after just one single maniacal 800 mile drive because the coolant level dropped too low.


Also it's a good idea to bleed the system from time to time anyway...you know...just for the h___ of it. :-)


--Damien

#7 grossgary

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 08:03 PM

do you have a mechanics stethoscope to maybe try and narrow down the noise location? maybe it's just a pulley, timing tensioner, or something that got worse with the heat.

if you're positive the headgaskets are bad a compression test doesn't sound worth your time. i've seen DOHC's with bad head gaskets pass compression tests - that and their propensity to not mix coolant/oil has befuddled mechanics not familiar with EJ25's. but, doesn't matter as you already know they're bad.

compression test won't say anything about bearings. i think you could pay attention to your oil. any metal in it would indicate bearing issue somewhere. not sure if you can filter it, cut your filter open, or put a magnet on the drain plug - maybe someone more familiar with that can pipe up. i've seen metal in oil but i've never looked for one in question, i already knew each time.

i've never heard cams make a noise, i've only seen them seized/galled, etc.

the head surface will be fine, a resurface will be in order but they aren't typically all that terrible when mic'ed.

you'll have to drive it some i guess to see if there was any damage to the bearings. your first post seems to suggest that. the subaru's with rod knock i've had have always gotten worse quickly, not sure if that's the norm or not though?

#8 Fairtax4me

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 08:58 PM

Guessing you could get a feel for how hot the engine got by removing the T-belt covers. If melted that to me is a pretty good indication the engine got really hot.


Funny you mention this. I have a couple melted rear covers off my 2.2. I kinda have to wonder just how hot the engine actually gets to melt those covers. :confused:

#9 efseiler

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 07:30 AM

The engine oil is a substantial factor in heat dissapation as well....


I recently used Mobil 1 synthetic in an EJ22 (with a little Lucas mixed in) and I got an astonishing 385 miles out of a single tank of gas (and I don't think I was cheating!)


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#10 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 09:04 AM

Chances are very good that the rod bearings are wiped out. If, after sitting overnight, you get a sharp rattle for about 2 seconds on startup - the rod bearings are shot.

If it's not super high mileage, doesn't burn oil, and the cylinders look good when you pull off the heads - split the block, replace the main and rod bearings, polish the crank, and put it back together. Main and rod bearings are inexpensive - about the same cost as HG's - all you need to split the block and put it back together is a slide-hammer with a hook to remove the wrist pins. With buying some sealant for the case halves (I prefer anaerobic), a lower-end gasket set, and a few tools to get it apart, you can replace the bearings in the short block for about $125.

Surface the block halves and heads with sandpaper and glass. Or have the heads done by a machine shop if you prefer.

HG's, intake, and exhaust gaskets will run about $100 from the dealer.

You can easily do a "rebuild" on the engine you have for less than the cost of a replacement or even an EJ22 swap. It's just a matter of not being scared to do it.

GD

#11 Rooster2

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 03:37 PM

[quote name='GeneralDisorder']Chances are very good that the rod bearings are wiped out. If, after sitting overnight, you get a sharp rattle for about 2 seconds on startup - the rod bearings are shot.

I don't hear any sharp rattle noises, or any unusual noises at all upon start up from being over night cold. So maybe the rod bearings are okay.

I don't have the time, facility, or tools to replace the HG. I am having the car flat bedded to my trusted independent mechanic for his assessment. I trust his judgment. Maybe, I will get by with just HG replacement. I also have a TB kit, that I will have him install, if he says there is enough of a motor to save.

Just shopped around to see what is available if needed. I checked several yards today, asking what's available in either a 2.2 or 2.5 motors. Got one quote of $550 for an Impreza 2.2 motor, and $450 internet quote from another yard for a 2.2 from Kentucky. Guess used motors aren't going for $200 anymore, at least not here in Central Indiana.

#12 jarl

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 08:13 PM

http://www.indypicap...om/pricing.html

Engine, 4 cylinder $154.99, $60 core.
It probably won't include any warranty, but if you know what to look for (I don't :D ) you can probably get away with it...

#13 Rooster2

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 02:53 AM

http://www.indypicap...om/pricing.html

Engine, 4 cylinder $154.99, $60 core.
It probably won't include any warranty, but if you know what to look for (I don't :D ) you can probably get away with it...


Yes, I am familiar with Pic a Part in Indy. There is also a lot called Pull A Part in Indy. Great prices at both. As a result, both lots are crawling with people wrenching parts off cars. Hard to get something in tact. Thanks for the reminder to check with both lots.

#14 grossgary

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 02:08 PM

97 EJ22 $250 in Indiana with a bent timing gear:
1-800-288-6787

1997:
1-317-831-2627 $350 in indiana

1996:
1-765-948-3659 $295

they all need a 96-98 EJ22 single port exhaust to go with it and it needs to have EGR to not have a check engine light if you care about that - but other wise are all plug and play.

good luck, you're in a tough spot. a mechanic can't deduce the condition of the engine. doesn't matter how good they are. oil inspection is about as good as you can get but that can even be limiting when it comes to non-disassembly bearing inspection.

if i could get it done cheap, like do it myself for costs of gaskets, i would repair it. if a friend was paying someone to do it i'd probably suggest they pay $300 for a block and sell this one for parts for $100.

i have a severely overheated SOHC EJ25 in my garage i haven't decided what to do with either. do i risk it? tough call. i also have EJ25 blocks with holes in them, rod knock, and seized laying in my garage which do not give me warm fuzzies about it.

#15 Meeky Moose

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 04:55 PM

remember the block and heads are aluminum and thus warp under extreme heat. sometimes crack..

the last OBW i had was bought because the lady cooked it, drove it hot till it siezed on the side of the road.

once it cooled off i drove it home..

i yanked it out, installed a 95' 2.2l and gave the car to my wife to drive.. never having a problem out of it.

the cooked 2.5l had a cracked block due to being overheated badly..

IMO don't waste your time with that engine, get a replacement.. takes about 4 hours without air tools to swap it..

#16 Rooster2

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 10:58 AM

Just talked to my mechanic. He is going to pull the motor, and pull the head from the driver's side first. Both I and the mechanic think this is usually the side that blows the head gasket first. He plans to check the block and head for warpage, and call me with his results. He has a source for a 2.2 motor, if I need to go that route.

#17 Rooster2

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 08:48 PM

Just talked to my mechanic. He is going to pull the motor, and pull the head from the driver's side first. Both I and the mechanic think this is usually the side that blows the head gasket first. He plans to check the block and head for warpage, and call me with his results. He has a source for a 2.2 motor, if I need to go that route.


Update.......my mechanic called me to say that my 2.5 is definitely cooked. It has a warped block, and knocking sound when held at 2K rpm. I am going the 2.2 replacement route, if I can find a decent one.

My mechanic says he has a source for 2.2 motors that are imported from Japan by some company in Louisiana. He couldn't or wouldn't tell me the name of the company. He is going to check on cost but roughly $850 to !,100 for a motor that has a one year guarantee. I am checking on line and locally for a 2.2, but if anyone could point me in the right direction on a good 2.2, at a good price, I would appreciate it.




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