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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Swap the Fan / Dead Fan Clutch \ Retrofitting?

Fan Pulley Fan Mechanical Fan Cooling System Cooling JesZeK Water pump fan Loyale 2.7 Turbo electric fan electric

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70 replies to this topic

#1 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:45 PM

Hi all!

Recently my BumbleBeast developed a Weird noise, a Rattle Sound that was only noticeable at idle; So I checked it and I originally thought that it had Worn A/C Compressor's Ball Bearings...
(as you can read ~► Here ) ...but the A/C kept working fine.

So, I was about to install my Brand New SJR Lift kit for the front only...
(as you can see ~► Here ) ...and I decided to Remove the Weberized EA82 engine from my BumbleBeast to check it carefully and make the lift install easier,  also, I got Rid of the Timing Belts' Covers at all... (as you can Read ~► Here ) ...Because I thought that the Weird Noise source could be a Worn Timing Belt Tensioner's Ball Bearing.

Then with the Engine out, I Discovered that the Source of the Weird noise was the Main Fan, the one attached to the Water Pump's Pulley, also known as "Mechanical" fan; so my BumbleBeast's A/C compressor is fine.  :D

A Little bit of Background History: The Fan clutch it had, failed around year 1993, so I decided to Fix the Fan by Drillin' a 1/4" Hole thru the Fan clutch and insert a 1/4" Twisted wire into that hole and Welded the wire to the Fan's Base.

It worked good since then... but now, several years later; the Hole I Drilled on the Fan Clutch's area, became Wider and the Welded wire is Loose, also the Fan is Loose, so that thing is Ruined...

I Need to obtain a New Fan for that, I'll Like to Keep the original fan setup, but here comes the Question:

is there any Fan that fits the Pulley on my EA82 that comes without Fan Clutch?

I Really need one, ASAP...

Kind Regards.


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 06 February 2014 - 01:52 PM.


#2 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 02:14 PM

Maybe I could score a Fixed fan at one of our Local Junk Yards  and cut its base,

 

then weld it to my EA82 fan's Base (Without the Fan Clutch) and make it work like that...


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 06 February 2014 - 01:56 PM.


#3 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 03:24 PM

...or is Better idea to Replace the mechanical Fan, retrofitting an Electric Fan?

Someone told me that the lack of the Fixed fan on the Waterpump's Pulley will aid the Waterpump to last longer and also will help the Engine to gain a good couple of more Hp...

is that True?


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 06 February 2014 - 01:57 PM.


#4 El Presidente

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:33 AM

...or is Better idea to Replace the pulley-driven Fan, retrofitting an Electric Fan?

Someone told me that the lack of the Fixed fan on the Waterpump's Pulley will made to the Waterpump to last longer and also will help to the Engine to gain a good couple of more Hp...

is that True?


Yes and yes. You also gain throttle response and it makes changing timing belts and other maintenance easier. If you ever get into water that deep enough to hit the fan, you don't have to worry about the blades bending into the radiator. This is more of a problem on fixed blade fans, but I've seen it happen on clutch fans too.

I hate clutch fans and I never hesitate to tear one out and swap it for an electric. The thing I don't like about fixed blade fans is that they are on, %100 of the time, which means %100 drag @ %100 of the time...the thing I like is that they are %100 reliable, nothing but air moving steel. Clutch fans can go out with no warning or notice, they can cause all sorts of noises when they do and they can never deliver %100 of the energy put into them because the clutch slips. Electrics only turn when needed and can be set on delay timers so your motor can warm up asap, or put on post timers so they can still cool the motor after it turned off. The effeciency of electric fans is much higher than either fixed or clutch fans so you might see a MPG or two increase and maybe a HP or two. You can also turn electric fans off manually for water crossings to avoid stressing/breaking things.

I'm running a 12" Hayden pusher fan with a hayden adjustable thermo switch I got at O'rielly's for $110. It draws 8amps. I plan on running another as a backup ,and to take some work load off the other one.

#5 El Presidente

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:35 AM

Maybe I could score a Fixed fan at one of our Local Junk Yards and cut its base, then weld it to my EA82 fan's Base (Without the Fan Clutch) and make it work like that...


You could, but if your off even a little on your centerlines, it would be out of balance and chew through water pump bearings.

#6 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:58 AM

GD wires in... an EA81 fan in place of that secondary fan that the Loyales have because its such a pain to remove...

I only have one fan in my EA82 and I stay plenty cool but I may install another one with the rebuilt EA82 since I will :brow: drive it hard.

#7 zukiru

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:12 AM

I pull them and run a slim single electric fan.
More often than not the clutch is worn out.

#8 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 11:33 AM

Yes and yes. You also gain throttle response and it makes changing timing belts and other maintenance easier. ...

 

Great!, Now I'm Sold with the idea to Remove the mechanical fan and install an electric fan there.

Any Little gain in Hp, Throttle Response, or Torque in these EA82's, worth the effort.
:)

 

 

 

... I'm running a 12" Hayden pusher fan with a hayden adjustable thermo switch I got at O'rielly's for $110. It draws 8amps. I plan on running another as a backup, and to take some work load off the other one.

 

Sounds Great! ... Could you Share Photos of your Fan's setup, Please?


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 06 February 2014 - 02:00 PM.


#9 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 11:41 AM

I guess I Can Remove Both and use a Big Single electric fan, Wired with the actual electric fan Wiring, then the electric one should turn on when:

  • The A/C is activated.
  • The Engine's Temperature reaches certain temperature.

But my BumbleBeast starts the electric fan when Temp reaches Above the Middle mark, and I Don't Like That due to the Head Gaskets' issues on these engines; I'll Like to keep the engine Cooler, especially if I remove the mechanical fan.

 

Now with the mechanical fan constantly spinning, it Usually Runs around 1/4 temp gauge; so if I get rid from it, I Must change the Thermo Switch in order to avoid overheatings... isn't it?

Are those thermoswitches Standard? ... So I could find a Lower temp thermo Switch and swap the actual one.

 

I pull them and run a slim single electric fan. ...

 

 

 

Please let me Know how you Wired your Electric fan. Pics will be Great.

Kind Regards.


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 06 February 2014 - 02:06 PM.


#10 cmill189

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:08 PM

I have a very slim EA81 fan in place of the original engine driven fan. I have it wired with a relay, and the other electric fan's ground completes the circuit. So whenever the OEM fan is grounded via A/C or thermo-sensor, both run. I also replaced the water pump pulley studs with bolts for more clearance.

#11 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 02:48 PM

...the other electric fan's ground completes the circuit. So whenever the OEM fan is grounded via A/C or thermo-sensor, both run. ...

 

That means that the Stock A/C electric fan has a permanent Positive (+) and the Switching line is the Ground (-) isn't it?

So I can run a Relay with direct positive and ground to the New fan, and obtain the Switching signal for the relay, from the Stock A/C Fan's Ground; isn't it?

Could you post pictures of your Dual electric fan setup, please?

Also, about this:

 

...I also replaced the water pump pulley studs with bolts for more clearance.

 

I am a little bit confused... Why don't you leave the Waterpump's Pulley without screws?

those won't be needed anymore without the Clutch fan.

Kind Regards.


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 06 February 2014 - 02:08 PM.


#12 zukiru

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:11 PM

I just swapped the plug from the old fan to the new fan.

#13 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:34 PM

I am a little bit confused... Why don't you leave the Waterpump's Pulley without screws?

those won't be needed anymore without the Clutch fan.

Kind Regards.


You need the pulley to have some screws to attach it to the water pump, so that your accessory belts can still drive the water pump, so that it functions.

GD just cut the stock screws down a bit on "Stubies Subie"s Loyale... if you ask him he can get a picture of it for you.

#14 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:41 PM

Oh!... I Forgot but I Remember now: the four screws hold the pulley in its place on the Waterpump's shaft, isn't it?

Has been Long time since I changed the Waterpump on my EA82...

Couldn't I Screw them backwards? ... from the pulley to the Waterpump's terminal, So the screws will only show their head.

Kind Regards.


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 06 February 2014 - 02:10 PM.


#15 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:48 PM

They arent exactly screws IIRC, more of "all thread" type of bolt.

#16 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:49 PM

Stud bolts... yes, Thanks.

I wanted to know if I can Substitute them for Screws.

 

I pull them and run a slim single electric fan.
More often than not the clutch is worn out.

I just swapped the plug from the old fan to the new fan.

 

So, your EA82 subie only has one fan, an aftermarket electric fan and you just used the Stock wiring to power it. Sounds So Simple... I Like it!

But in our Hot Caribbean climates, Maybe a Single fan would not be enough... Specially with our extremly mountainous Geography.

Could I Ask if the aftermarket fan that you have, has More Speed / Moving air capability than the Stock one?

I'll like to see Pictures...

Kind Regards.


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 06 February 2014 - 02:11 PM.


#17 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:10 PM

You probably could... cant see why not...

They are 6X1.25 IIRC.

Heres my fan. Stock, electric fan that is temperature controlled. Comes on when Im about 3/8s up the gauge and keeps the car cool. I *sorta* panic when it hits the 1/2 mark.
Posted Image

Heres the pulley. Pretty sure its 6X1.25 bolts... Dont see why they couldnt be replaced, but mines an 86 GL, I dont have A/C so I dont have the secondary fan anyway.
Posted Image

Again, I recommend asking Stubies_Subie to send you/post some pictures of his dual fan set-up in his 1991 Loyale.

#18 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:26 PM

Your Subie's engine bay Looks pretty much like my BumbleBeast's one:

 

EA82 with the 32/36 Weber carb and Coverless Timin' Belts. :)


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 06 February 2014 - 02:14 PM.
Now I Saw the Photo...


#19 zukiru

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:27 PM

Sure!
Posted Image
Posted Image
I feel pretty good about it. It's designed to upgrade a car with mechanical fans.
Much better than my ailing electric fan. It was very tired.
This fan is also reversible for use on the other side of the radiator.
Alabama summers get pretty warm too. And this did fine.I'll try and find the paperwork on it.

#20 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:34 PM

Awesome!

Now I Understand why you only has one electric fan, it seems to be Big and powerful enough to Cool the EA82.

Do your EA82 have a Working A/C?

If so, This Fan will come on with it too, not only with Temperature.

Does it Manage well the A/C plus Engine Temps?

 

I'm pretty sure it does well, but I'll Like to know your experience...

 

Maybe I'll swap a Big electric fan just like yours, instead of Two electric ones.

 

Which brand & size is it?

Kind Regards.


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 06 February 2014 - 02:15 PM.


#21 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:39 PM

Its the completely stock fan. I dont have A/C on my car, never really wanted it either... A/C to me is Windows down at 65 mph haha.

The fan is pretty big. You can get an EA81 fan on the empty spot in my radiator... Much thinner. And I will put one on there when I swap in a rebuilt EA82, just to keep things extra cool. Have it wired to a switch that I can turn it on in the summer on hot days while in traffic kinda thing.

#22 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:46 PM

Well, your subie doesn't has A/C but that electric fan belongs to the A/C system, isn't it? ...

My BumbleBeast has it too.

I really dislike A/C except during the Huge Rainstorms in my Country
(around 60% of the Year)

 

so, I Really NEED the A/C to keep the windshield glass clear, for safe driving.

Kind Regards.


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 06 February 2014 - 02:18 PM.


#23 zukiru

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:49 PM

My A/C isn't charged. So I can't help there.
My fan is made by compressor works.

#24 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 05:03 PM

...My fan is made by compressor works.



Thank you ... You're So Kind!

I'll Keep in my mind that brand name when I start Hunting for an aftermarket fan.

Kind Regards.

Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 06 February 2014 - 02:19 PM.


#25 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 05:14 PM

Zukiru: Could I Ask how did you fixed the Electric fan secure on its place?

I Can not see it clearly on the Pictures...

 

 

...
IMAG0040-1.jpg

IMAG0039-1.jpg
...

 

Kind Regards.


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 06 February 2014 - 02:21 PM.
to bring the pics for easy reference






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Fan, Pulley Fan, Mechanical Fan, Cooling System, Cooling, JesZeK, Water pump fan, Loyale 2.7 Turbo, electric fan, electric

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