SubiBratz Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I am hoping to see how fast my brat is going to be with all legacy running gear. I mean all front to back.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 It's not as spectacular as you might think. Yeah it's definately faster - but I didn't think "WOW - that's FAST!" when I've driven any of the EJ22 swapped rigs I've built. Now - the frankenmotor in place of the EJ22 - that is something else entirely! 180 to 190 HP in the Brat body is damn quick. The one my friend has that we built together will walk away from a 2.0 WRX. Remember that the EJ22 is a grocery getter engine from a station wagon. It's got power but the power is quite tame still and the cam is toned down for a daily driver. Put in a torque cam, increase compression and displacement and it turns into a real race engine that delivers on all your expectations. But an EJ22 in stock form is just not that big of a deal. You'll be able to pass in 5th and not have to down-shift on hills - but don't expect it to feel like a race car. It's just a lightweight Legacy and that's how it's going to drive. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubiBratz Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) 2.5 block will fit frame rails? Edited January 2, 2012 by SubiBratz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 2.5 with 2.2 heads is the same size as a 2.2. High compression - search for "frankenmotor". GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubiBratz Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 So all I need is the phase 1 2.5 block with my 91 2.2 heads and intake. Also I would use the HG's for the 2.5 block correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubiBratz Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 So I seen you have or had a franken brat... Wheres the videos..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 We have never taken any video. That will change in the new year as the Brat is being entered in stage rally racing. We are currently building a complete FIA approved roll cage and harnesses, 5-lug conversion, cybrid power steering, removing the t-tops, and generally bringing it up to Rally America regulations. Then it's getting a cosmetic overhaul so it doesn't look like an old beater. We will have a camera mounted for race events. That's in the plans also. Sometime around March I think is the start of the season..... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubiBratz Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 What year is the brat. Mine is a 78 near mint.. I used a 91 legacy sedan with a 5 speed awd trans as a donor car the legacy crossmember gave me powersteering and 5 lug with discs. Also I used all the rear suspension too gave me 5 lug and discs in the rear. My final ratio is 4.11 I think. Just looking for a fast reliable winter rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 It's an '85 with a high-comp. 2.5 and a '96 JDM, STi close-ratio 5MT with front helical LSD and rear clutch-type LSD. We didn't want the wider offset of the Legacy suspension so it's getting a 5 lug swap using a hybrid of EA81, Legacy, and XT6 parts. It has an EA81T PS rack that will be driven from a cybid XT6 PS pump with a dash control for PS pump speed. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubiBratz Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Sounds like its going to be killer. About how much hp are you going to make and if you dont mind me asking what is the motor recipe. My goal is to make atleast 250 hp on a reliable motor. So either Im going turbo or your franken route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obk25xt Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Sounds like its going to be killer. About how much hp are you going to make and if you dont mind me asking what is the motor recipe. My goal is to make atleast 250 hp on a reliable motor. So either Im going turbo or your franken route. I don't wanna say it's never gonna work, but you probly won't even be within 60 hp of your goal. Do a lil' research on the topic. Just sayin..... Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TajMan Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) DO WANT HIGH HP BRAT! But after cutting my Brat parts car roof off, and seeing how much structural integrity the roof provides AND how weak lower body steel can be in an old semi-rusted state..... I believe that any car built like this needs MAJOR structural reinforcement. #1 - heavy-duty roll cage inside the cab, to the max with as many body pick-up points as possible #2 - maybe support along the 2 frame rails that run lengthwise underneath the Brat body With this covered, I think you can build the ultimate performance Brat that will last a second before something fails Edited January 4, 2012 by TajMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubiBratz Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Well I dont think 250 hp is not out of the question. My brat is an one owner brat with only 70,000 miles. I have every doc to prove it including the window sticker and warranty book.. no joke.. Rust is not an issue. Little on fender because the old lady wasnt strong enough to turn a corner with no powersteering.. LOL. My freind that is doing all the welding/fab work is the best in business, WWII airplane engine in a 1968 Chevy short box, 2 door Ford Excersion @ the SEMA show and inventor of the Watts 4 link. So nothing is out of the ?. If you say it cant be done it puts more fuel to our fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubiBratz Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 How can you post pics on this site or do I need to host a site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obk25xt Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Well I dont think 250 hp is not out of the question. Sorry, double neg. So that's means that you do think it's out of the Q? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyeights Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 GD, I am about to do a Gen 2 EJ swap. I also have enough hardware to use an XT6 Cybrid pump. Care to share any info you may have on the pump speed control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TajMan Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Yeah yeah, the ongoing story of car forums everywhere.. 250HP, at the crank or to the wheels in your daily driven Brat.. IS very reasonable with a turbo EJ motor, turbo is turbo.. IS NOT QUITE POSSIBLE with a naturally aspirated EJ motor glad I could clear that up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefy Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 What year is the brat. Mine is a 78 near mint.. I used a 91 legacy sedan with a 5 speed awd trans as a donor car the legacy crossmember gave me powersteering and 5 lug with discs. Also I used all the rear suspension too gave me 5 lug and discs in the rear. My final ratio is 4.11 I think. Just looking for a fast reliable winter rig. you make it sound like it is already done...? Why all the questions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) You can't hit those HP numbers with a non-turbo Subaru 4 cylinder engine. 190 is about the highest anyone has seen from the frankenmotor (search - the recipe is well documented). If you want 250 HP from an NA then you will have to go with a high compression H6 or an H6 from a newer 3.6 car, etc. The SVX was a bit less than 240 HP so it's close. With a compression boost it could easily hit 250. They won't easily fit into the first-gen body.... or a second gen body for that matter. They are all DOHC engines. 250 is easily possible with a turbo. The only one that's an easy fit is the EJ22T and they were only 165 from the factory so modification is required. Mileage has nothing to do with the integrity of the body. Without a cage the body flex will be very pronounced. The 190 HP engine in the '85 we built has flexed the body terribly and the doors don't even close right anymore - it is a rust free example also. The body of the Brat is not very ridgid to begin with by modern standards - when I put Brat's on my lift they sag on either end and the doors are harder to open and close. I would say that at the power levels you desire a cage will be a mandatory consideration to beef up the structure of the car. Tie-in's to both front and rear strut/shock towers, the four corners of the cab floor, and the pillars for starters. GD Edited January 5, 2012 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 GD, I am about to do a Gen 2 EJ swap. I also have enough hardware to use an XT6 Cybrid pump. Care to share any info you may have on the pump speed control? Contact renob123 - he has all the links from various forums for building it - they are popular for jeeps and toyotas and such. He knows how to do it with some resistors and a pot apparently. I haven't started in on that part of the swap yet so all I know is that he researched it and it should work . GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubiBratz Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) So turbo I go... And Zefy my project is 80 percent complete. I was just trying to see if any one had videos of the Gen1 brat with the swap. If I can figure how to put photos on here I would love to share with the board. Edited January 7, 2012 by SubiBratz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 You will need to start with a turbo engine then. The Legacy 2.2 is not going to handle a bolt-on turbo. You need a 22T, a 20T or a 25T. The 22E will only handle about 5 psi of boost and that build hasn't proven very reliable. At 5 psi they make about 200 HP but they aren't as reliable as the 2.5 high compression NA build so people have largely stopped doing that in favor of the better build. 250 is also about the limit of the non-turbo transmissions as well. Plus they have crap for gear ratio's so you will want to go to a turbo transmission for handling the power and torque and for the more favorable gearing. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obk25xt Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Pics or it doesn't exist!!!! :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TajMan Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I have a buddy, he owns sleepy subies performance shop in Salt Lake, he was just telling me the '91+ EJ22 actually responds very well to boost, and was even saying a factory motor was fine at like 14psi with the proper intercooler/fuel/tuning setup. A bit of a stretch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) A bit of a stretch? 14 psi ?!?! Possibly with E85, alcohol injection, monster IC, and a LOT of hopes & dreams to keep it together. I doubt the pistons would take that much abuse for very long. The tune is going to be the key and quite frankly you will need a LOT of insturmentation to monitor something that's on the razor's edge with cylinder pressure's, and exhaust gas temps. Doing it right would probably cost more than just buying an STi front clip and calling it good at 300 HP . Check out the threads on NASIOC about that type of build. There's been a lot of folks that have done high compression turbo builds. It's quite easy to end up detonating them to death. It's not something I would sugest for someone that isn't intimately familair with turbo charged tuning. GD Edited January 6, 2012 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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