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EA dual range going into 99 Outback, a couple questions


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43 replies to this topic

#1 daredevil1166

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 12:50 AM

Planning my D/R swap, ordering parts, and getting a list of junkyard stuff together.

1....I'd like to keep my hydro clutch if i can. I believe my 88 DL had a hydraulic clutch. I can't remember exactly how it was set up, and can't find one in a junkyard. So, could I use a fork from one of those to make it work with my 99's hydro clutch? Obviously I'd have to figure out mounting for the slave cylinder, but I can handle that. I'm starting to remember something about a cable still being involved. Was it a slave attached to a cable? Could I just use a slave from an EA in that case?

2....I'm going to swap the stub shafts from an old 99 trans so I can use all my current axles. Got MWE's and lots of spares. Had my 99 trans apart a few times now. How bad is the D/R to split? Can't find any write up on that one. Know of any you can link?

3....I know a 98 4 bolt trans will bolt to my 8 bolt engine with light modification. I assume I'll be able to make an adapter plate bolt to it as well?

Last, anybody in the Portland area have an EA flywheel they can part with?(I'm striking out at junkyards lately)

#2 bheinen74

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:54 AM

3....I know a 98 4 bolt trans will bolt to my 8 bolt engine with light modification. I assume I'll be able to make an adapter plate bolt to it as well?
ely)




why, how, is 3 related at all to anything in you post? 98 trans who cares, you are talking a D/R which is nothing here in usa later than 93
so not sure what your ? about a 98 applies

Edited by bheinen74, 12 January 2012 - 01:56 AM.


#3 daredevil1166

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:07 AM

why, how, is 3 related at all to anything in you post? 98 trans who cares, you are talking a D/R which is nothing here in usa later than 93
so not sure what your ? about a 98 applies



I assume I'll be able to make an adapter plate bolt to it as well?



I thought it was clear. I should have specified a little better.

I know a 4 bolt trans will bolt to my 8 bolt engine. Any reason a standard EA/EJ adapter plate made for a 4 bolt EJ engine wouldn't work on my 8 bolt engine?

#4 bheinen74

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:12 AM

i follow now

#5 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 11:57 AM

Planning my D/R swap, ordering parts, and getting a list of junkyard stuff together.

1....I'd like to keep my hydro clutch if i can. I believe my 88 DL had a hydraulic clutch. I can't remember exactly how it was set up, and can't find one in a junkyard. So, could I use a fork from one of those to make it work with my 99's hydro clutch? Obviously I'd have to figure out mounting for the slave cylinder, but I can handle that. I'm starting to remember something about a cable still being involved. Was it a slave attached to a cable? Could I just use a slave from an EA in that case?


The first hydro clutch used by Subaru was on the EJ turbo - which for the US was the '91 Legacy Sport Sedan. But none of that is compatible with the EA tranny because those are pull-clutch setups. An 88 DL would be cable but would not have the Hill Holder so it would have a return spring setup instead.... not hydro in any case.

Your best bet is to swap over to a 95/96 Legacy pedal assembly - they were cable clutch. The cable is a better system IMO - easy to adjust for different drivers, no bleeding, and it has better "feel".

If you want to keep the hydro system you will have to figure out a fork solution - probably a custom fork will be involved, as well as slave mounting, etc. No question it could be done but it wouldn't be worth it to me.

2....I'm going to swap the stub shafts from an old 99 trans so I can use all my current axles. Got MWE's and lots of spares. Had my 99 trans apart a few times now. How bad is the D/R to split? Can't find any write up on that one. Know of any you can link?


A little more involved because of the 4WD engagement and the Lo range linkage, etc but not bad.

If you are going to split the case - almost silly not to include an OBX Helical front limited slip while you are at it.

You don't have to split the case though - all the EA82 and EJ axle bar's use the same 25 spline, 27mm interface. You can swap to EA82 DOJ's as well.

3....I know a 98 4 bolt trans will bolt to my 8 bolt engine with light modification. I assume I'll be able to make an adapter plate bolt to it as well?


Same as any other EJ adaptor plate, yeah.

GD

#6 Gloyale

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:35 PM

Planning my D/R swap, ordering parts, and getting a list of junkyard stuff together.

1....I'd like to keep my hydro clutch if i can. I believe my 88 DL had a hydraulic clutch. I can't remember exactly how it was set up, and can't find one in a junkyard. So, could I use a fork from one of those to make it work with my 99's hydro clutch? Obviously I'd have to figure out mounting for the slave cylinder, but I can handle that. I'm starting to remember something about a cable still being involved. Was it a slave attached to a cable? Could I just use a slave from an EA in that case?


If you can find a way to mount a pivot stud in the correct location, and the Slave too, then you could probably just use the Hydro clutch fork,

2....I'm going to swap the stub shafts from an old 99 trans so I can use all my current axles. Got MWE's and lots of spares. Had my 99 trans apart a few times now. How bad is the D/R to split? Can't find any write up on that one. Know of any you can link?


Basically the same as the AWD boxes, but the lockbolt on the Shift shaft is harder to access. And you will need to disconnect the Hi/lo linkage from the lever on the front part of the case.

3....I know a 98 4 bolt trans will bolt to my 8 bolt engine with light modification. I assume I'll be able to make an adapter plate bolt to it as well?


No modification of the D/R trans ot the engine nessecary. Use a standard EA/EJ adapterplate. and an EA clutch and flywheel.

#7 daredevil1166

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 02:02 AM

An 88 DL would be cable but would not have the Hill Holder

Hmmm......Mine did. That's weird. I really thought I remember it being hydraulic somehow. Was I maybe seeing part of the HH system?


Your best bet is to swap over to a 95/96 Legacy pedal assembly

I said awhile back I wanted to switch over to a 96 OB clutch system, with the hill holder.
I hate the hydro system. Just thinking about other options. I'm having a hard time finding junkyard parts. I can always change things and make them the way I want later.

You don't have to split the case though - all the EA82 and EJ axle bar's use the same 25 spline, 27mm interface. You can swap to EA82 DOJ's as well.

Yes, I'm aware of that as an option. Still want to keep the ones I have as they are.

I'd be happy to put in an OBX diff. If they donate one to me.

Glad to know the adapter won't be an issue.

Edited by daredevil1166, 13 January 2012 - 02:09 AM.


#8 daredevil1166

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 02:08 AM

If you can find a way to mount a pivot stud in the correct location, and the Slave too, then you could probably just use the Hydro clutch fork,

Basically the same as the AWD boxes, but the lockbolt on the Shift shaft is harder to access. And you will need to disconnect the Hi/lo linkage from the lever on the front part of the case.

No modification of the D/R trans ot the engine nessecary. Use a standard EA/EJ adapterplate. and an EA clutch and flywheel.


Thanks, good to know.

We'll see what happens. It would be really cool if the hydro fork would work. I guess I could weld up the slot in an EA fork and make it work as well. They all just move the top of the fork toward the rear of the car right?

I'm anxious to get everything apart and start matching things up.

Edited by daredevil1166, 13 January 2012 - 02:13 AM.


#9 Gloyale

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 07:41 PM

I guess I could weld up the slot in an EA fork and make it work as well. They all just move the top of the fork toward the rear of the car right?


The throw of the hydro slave cylinder is much shorter than the cable travel. I'm not sure you'd have enough travel for that to work.

That's why the ball pivot is further on the Hydros, changes the fulcrum of the "See-Saw" action of the fork so the short throw at the slave equals a longer throw at the Throw-out.

#10 daredevil1166

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:37 PM

I didn't think of that.
Kills that idea.
I'll keep loooking for a cable pedal assembly.

Thanks.

#11 daredevil1166

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:17 AM

Finally got a 96 pedal assembly. So that's solved. Pain to find though.

What's better to seal the rear pieces after I split the D/R? Anaerobic sealant or the OEM gaskets?

It seems to me that using a sealant will make the flanges closer together. I'd rather do that but could it be an issue for clearances?

I have two D/R's. One doesn't have two switches that the other has.

Those are neutral and 4wd right? So I'll have to use the one with a neutral switch so I don't get a CEL, correct?

Hoping I can trade for another one with switches or add them so I have a spare.

It has the spots. Gonna see if I can just drill/tap to add them.

#12 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 02:41 AM

Yeah the switch that's directly in line with the the shifter rod (for the main gears) is the neutral switch. You may find that that the rod doesn't have the v-groove to operate the switch.... but I've never tried to add a switch so I don't know. Just a possibility.

All the part-time transmissions I've seen have had the 4WD switch.... I can't think of what a second switch would be that could be missing from another D/R transmission....

You can use a pedal-mounted switch for the cruise control as a surrogate neutral switch. When the clutch is depressed - might as well be neutral. I've done that on several FI swaps and it works great.

I use anaerobic on all my transmission builds for all the flanges - both where the factory used Three-Bond and where they used a paper gasket and it hasn't been a problem. The factory gaskets are really, really thin. Little more than coated tissue paper.

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder, 30 January 2012 - 02:44 AM.


#13 Gloyale

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:16 AM

Those are neutral and 4wd right? So I'll have to use the one with a neutral switch so I don't get a CEL, correct?



All the part-time transmissions I've seen have had the 4WD switch.... I can't think of what a second switch would be that could be missing from another D/R transmission....



GD


Trans with 2 swtiches = 4wd(at the back) and Reverse (on the side, inline with shift rod)

trans with 4 switches = Same as above, Plus Neutral (inline with shift rod, forward of the Reverse switch) And Lo range(passenger side, high up on the transfer section). This means this is an 89 D/R....all the others the Hi/Lo switch is in the cab at the shifter)

You'll want to use the one WITH 4 switches.

For the flange at the rear, I leave a bit of the old gasket, ussually around the bolt holes where it doesn't want to scrape off anyhow. This serves as a spacer(gasket does affect clearances) then just use sealant. I Personally use right stuff. It cures up fast, rubbery, but still flexible. I don't like Anaerobic as it stays gooey forever and is a mess to clean up if you have to split it again later.

You will want to have your extra D/R ready when the EJ25 and extra 1000 pounds of car eventually break it.

Edited by Gloyale, 30 January 2012 - 10:22 AM.


#14 daredevil1166

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:24 AM

This means this is an 89 D/R....all the others the Hi/Lo switch is in the cab at the shifter)


Thank you. Clears that up.

Can you line out what years have what switches?

In their original car are the Lo and Neutral switches used by the engine/ECU?

What would happen if an 89 lost it's Neutral and Lo switches? Lo is just as an indicator right? What about neutral?

Just so happens my brother has an 89 with a D/R and we're swapping engines anyway.

My front diff with stub shafts has gone MIA from my family's place. So I may not split the trans. But, the front seal is puking. I see it has a cover that can be unbolted there. Can I get at that seal to change it without splitting the case?

Or, anyone got a junk trans hanging around I can get the stub shafts from?

Also could use a junk EJ flywheel.

#15 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:04 AM

The only switch used by your ECU is the neutral switch. And you don't even really need that. Just wire it to the clutch pedal switch that trips off the cruise control and it won't care what tranny you put in it.

My front diff with stub shafts has gone MIA from my family's place. So I may not split the trans. But, the front seal is puking. I see it has a cover that can be unbolted there. Can I get at that seal to change it without splitting the case?


You can't change the front input shaft seal without splitting the case.

Or, anyone got a junk trans hanging around I can get the stub shafts from?


Maybe.... I would have to look. I will soon enough as I'm building another EJ transmission with an OBX front for a customer.

Also could use a junk EJ flywheel.


I have some flywheel's 2.2's and maybe a 2.5 - none are junk. They can be resurfaced for $30 or so and used no problem.

GD

#16 Gloyale

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:58 PM

Or, anyone got a junk trans hanging around I can get the stub shafts from?

Also could use a junk EJ flywheel.


I've got a few stub 25 spline shafts if you want em say 10 bucks or so?

Flywheels I have also.

$30 for a stock EA82 one , $100 for a EJ drilled one.

#17 daredevil1166

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:12 PM

How do you do the flywheels? Surfaced or balanced already?

I'll definitely take two stubs and maybe a drilled flywheel.

Got a rusty one to exchange if it'll do me any good.

I can come get them tomorrow(wednesday) evening if that's possible.

Edited by daredevil1166, 31 January 2012 - 03:51 PM.


#18 NorthCoast

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:53 PM

dd,

Are you going to do a write up on this when you're done? I've been looking for the same info since I want to put a D/R in my EJ. I keep searching for a write up but just keep finding bits and pieces.

#19 daredevil1166

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 01:23 AM

Are you going to do a write up on this when you're done?


I doubt I'll do a full write up. I'll put some info up. I got most of mine from here anyway so I don't have much to add.

So far there isn't anything too complicated. It's just having the money to do it. I got some great deals and have done a lot myself so I'm not much into it but, I think you could easily put $1000 into doing this.

I'll definitely take two stubs and maybe a drilled flywheel.


^^^^^ Cancel that. Got something figured out. Thanks though.

#20 ivans imports

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:33 AM

when i put the 4 bolt plate up to 8 bolt engine had to hili coil the starter bolt in bell houseing to have treads in block on late model in trans on new model i put duel ranges up to EJ moters all the time

#21 daredevil1166

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:30 AM

Well, it's in and driving. :banana:

In FWD that is.

I'll post some pictures of how it worked out when I can. It worked very well and went easier than I thought. The flywheel ground out nicely, the EJ pitch stopper and bracket bolted right up, and the bottom boot for the EJ shifter flipped upside-down and worked awesome on the EA shifters.

Splitting the D/R went well too. Took about 2 hours to replace the stub shafts and reseal most of it.

Here's where I run into trouble. The driveline. The cost of lengthening my front section is ridiculous. Apparently it's an odd tube size, u-joints aren't replaceable(by them at least), and the taper at each end causes problems.

For anyone who's done this project, I'd like to know what exactly was done to your driveline to make it work.

I'd rather not go to a one piece.

My only idea so far is to cut the tube, have a pieceof tube machined down to fit the ID and weld it in. Then have it balanced of course.

Edited by daredevil1166, 16 February 2012 - 02:15 AM.


#22 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:54 AM

What do you consider "rediculous" for driveline cost? I can tell you who I've used to have driveline's made but it might be just as bad as the quote you got. Everything they told you rings true to what I've been told - have to use new yoke's and new tubing because of the way it neck's down on the ends and the odd tube sizing. I think they used Nissan yoke's on the last one we had made. Was about $375 for a single-peice driveline for an AWD swap in a Brat.....

GD

#23 Fairtax4me

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:19 AM

So what's the issue with the driveshaft, is it too short to reach the transmission?
I'm looking into doing the same type of swap. Just doing some research for now to figure out what I'll need to make it work. I've found that the slip shaft for an Ej 5 speed trans is the same and will fit into the back of the EA DR trans, so it comes down to which transmission is longer.

#24 daredevil1166

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 01:35 AM

Yep. The EA D/R is about 2" shorter.

Edited by daredevil1166, 29 February 2012 - 01:38 AM.


#25 Fairtax4me

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 02:40 PM

That's about what I figured. I have an idea of what could work. Would need to have a piece custom machined, but it would probably be cheaper than having a whole shaft made.




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