Mdarius Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) 2005 Legacy 2.5 wagon. So, I pulled the entire ac blower assembly, not just the motor. (removed the glove box, pulled the whole unit) When I removed it, the car was functioning fine, no error codes. I ran the car without the unit in place for a while, no error codes and no pro lems...other than I had no heater. When I reinstalled with a new motor I disconnected the connectors below the a-pillar because the wiring harness was in the way, I needed a little more give. I reconnected them and when I put the key in the ignition and turned to ACC, the cooling fan (engine compartment) cycled on and off continuously with clicking in the relays below the A-pillar. When I started it up The check engine light came on, the "Sport" light started flashing, the transmission didn't shift at the right time, and there are at least 7 codes: PO137 PO1518 PO851 PO1152 PO1153 PO137 P1518 I have a hard time believing it's not related to something I've done. I've pulled the blower unit out again and checked all the connections and they are tight. I don't see any wires visibly pulled loose from pins or damaged, all visible grounds under the dash are tight and in place. The 3 relays below the A pillar all feel like they are the one clicking when I turn the key to ACC mode, so I can't tell if it's one of them or not. I checked all my fuses, they are all in place and in good condition. Does anybody have any further guidance? I really don't want to go to the dealership on this if I can avoid it. Is it possible I blew something up, disconnected a ground, or...?? Thanks! Edited January 28, 2012 by Mdarius year and model added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rverdoold Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 The ECU did not like loosing 12v probably also the TCU is confused. Did you try clearing the codes following by reconnecting the harness connectors again. It must be not making contact somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdarius Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) I disconnected the battery, then reconnected the battery, then disconnected each connector and reconnected with the battery in the circuit. I don't know where the ECU or PCU are. When i find them, I assume the process is (with the battery connected): -Clear the codes (autozone code reader?) -Disconnect the ECU -Reconnect the ECU -Disconnect the PCU -Reconnect the PCU -Try it again I wouldn't be so anal, but I know that electrical gremlins like things done in a specific order and manner sometimes. Not sure how picky the Subaru gremlins are. Edited January 28, 2012 by Mdarius clarify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I reconnected them and when I put the key in the ignition and turned to ACC, the cooling fan (engine compartment) cycled on and off continuously with clicking in the relays below the A-pillar This sounds a lot like what you get when you connect the "test connectors": all the relays controlled by the ECU start clicking, to make it easier to identify a damaged one (http://codes.rennacs.com/photo-gallery/SUBARU-EFI-01-CHOICE-Photos.php). As mentioned by rverdoold, it looks like some Subaru ECUs go bersek when the voltage runs low, or when you unplug the power for a very short time. Try disconnecting the ground cable from the battery for 5 minutes or more, and then reconnecting it. And make sure you didn't connect more than what you were supposed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Check all the connections with the battery Disconnected! Just like you desktop computer, you always remove power before disconnecting and connecting components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rverdoold Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 This sounds a lot like what you get when you connect the "test connectors": all the relays controlled by the ECU start clicking, to make it easier to identify a damaged one (http://codes.rennacs.com/photo-gallery/SUBARU-EFI-01-CHOICE-Photos.php). But the test connectors would not give error codes when connected. Unless, problems are found during the self test when the self test connectors are connected as well (two black ones in combination with the green ones). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdarius Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 But the test connectors would not give error codes when connected. Unless, problems are found during the self test when the self test connectors are connected as well (two black ones in combination with the green ones). So, the test connectors are under the dash on the drivers side? These are not connected to anything. BUT, if there are some on the passengers side, this could be the problem. I reconnected everything that fit together. Maybe I shouldn't have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 But the test connectors would not give error codes when connected. Unless, problems are found during the self test when the self test connectors are connected as well (two black ones in combination with the green ones). It will if you try to drive with them connected. Id double check the pins inside the connectors that you had unplugged. They can get bent easily. You have three oxygen sensor codes, a starter circuit code and a neutral safety switch code. All of them are likely due to poor connection between the component and ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 BUT, if there are some on the passengers side, this could be the problem. I reconnected everything that fit together. Maybe I shouldn't have? The FSM says the "test mode connector" (green) is located on the back of the "glove box lower cover" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdarius Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 The FSM says the "test mode connector" (green) is located on the back of the "glove box lower cover" That is a beautiful piece of information, right there. I did connect that. I'll check it tonight and get back to the group. Thanks for this! I didn't even really know where to start! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Just watching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 "So, I pulled the entire ac blower assembly, not just the motor. (removed the glove box, pulled the whole unit) When I removed it, the car was functioning fine, no error codes. I ran the car without the unit in place for a while, no error codes and no pro lems...other than I had no heater. When I reinstalled with a new motor I disconnected the connectors below the a-pillar because the wiring harness was in the way, I needed a little more give." That is the problem. Remove battery cable. Unplug that cable then plug it back in, connetc battery, see what happns. The issue is right there since it worked before you touched it then didnt after you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdarius Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Alright, the green connector was hooked up, so I disconnected it (it's behind the panel below the glove box, near the center console.). Went to Autozone, of course since the battery had been disconnected I had to reset the stations on the way(This is actually a little relevant), cleared the codes, and turned the key to ACC. The radiator fan didn't cycle on...Success! Or, so I thought. I drove away and the erratic driving was still there...delay to shift in to gear when stepping on the gas, delay in the RPM's when stepping on the gas, delay to shift up, stalling when stopping. Drove about 10 miles round trip with no check engine lights. Returned to Autozone...still no codes. Returned the code reader, removed the negative battery cable for about 30 seconds, replaced it and got in the car. Turned the engine over and the check engine light was on, the "Sport" light and...the other green light in the middle of the RPM gauge...were flashing at me. All the same codes as before. The weird thing is, the radio was still on the station it was on before I removed the battery cable. Should I have left it off for a longer period of time, and if so, how long? Would it have really made a difference? But hey, the engine fan stopped cycling on and off! Gah!!! Any other ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Did you ever go back and check the harness you toyed with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdarius Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 "So, I pulled the entire ac blower assembly, not just the motor. (removed the glove box, pulled the whole unit) When I removed it, the car was functioning fine, no error codes. I ran the car without the unit in place for a while, no error codes and no pro lems...other than I had no heater. When I reinstalled with a new motor I disconnected the connectors below the a-pillar because the wiring harness was in the way, I needed a little more give." That is the problem. Remove battery cable. Unplug that cable then plug it back in, connetc battery, see what happns. The issue is right there since it worked before you touched it then didnt after you did. Unplug WHICH cable? I unplugged the self test wire. I should probably follow this sequence: 1. Clear OBDII codes 2. Remove positive battery cable 3. Disconnect all connectors in the kick panel 4. Re-connect all the connectors in the kick panel 5. Re-connect the positive cable (after waiting how long?) 6. Drive and see if behavior is different 7. Shut off car, restart and see if lights come back on 8. Erratic behavior or lights? Y= Call it a good effort and take it to the stealership. No= Celebrate with pals and reinstall the glovebox. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Next is to see what codes are popping up. Lets back uo a bit and assume it is coincidence. How old is the timing belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdarius Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Did you ever go back and check the harness you toyed with I'll take a couple pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Should have just left the battery hooked up. When the battery is unhooked the computer forgets all of the fuel and spark curves it has adjusted to over the course or the last few drive cycles. As a result it defaults to its base parameters that allow it to run, but it may not run well until it completes at least one drive cycle. The definition of a drive cycle varies, but generally it includes the engine reaching normal operating temp for a certain period of time, and changes in engine load calculation and vehicle speed over a period of time. Unhok the battery again for about ten minutes. Reconnect and start the engine and allow it to reach operating temp in the driveway. Cut it off and wait a half hour or so, then take it for a drive with some stop start followed by a 15 minute or so highway drive at constant speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdarius Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Next is to see what codes are popping up. Lets back uo a bit and assume it is coincidence. How old is the timing belt. About 60k miles since it was changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The car is not going to run that badly after disconnecting the battery, this has nothing to do with ECU TCU memory, otherwise we would all have cars that run like junk after installing a battery or clearing codes. You only need to disconnect the battery for a minute or two. The TCU memory for driving pattern clears after each drive cycle and learns in about a mile or so. This would not cause stalling, driveability issues or goofy shifting. It is possible that maybe the ECU or TCU have gotten damaged, but I am not too confident in that yet. One moment it worked, he changed the blower motor, then it stopped working (running well). This leads to the theory of going back to everything you touched, check the pins, make sure they all are fixed inside the plugs, and good solid plug connections. Since shift points are detremined by a few factors, including the engine vacume, so I want some input on that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdarius Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 OK, I need to get a code reader and confirm the codes it's throwing. I have to admit when I saw the lights come back on it was cold out and I was sick of the whole thing, so I didn't actually go back inside Autozone and get the code reader again. I just assumed it was the same codes since I didn't do anything else to the car. I also need to check vacuum. I don't have a vacuum gauge. Sorry to be so needy on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 PO137 - O2 circuit low PO1518 - starter switch low PO 851 - May not even exist PO1152 - Not a subaru code PO1153 - Not a subaru code Those other codes dont seem to exist, they arent listed in my FSM, or on any internet source. Get those codes read. But right now with the two codes that are there (which I only have faith in the starter one) is telling me it is still a harness issue as the harnesses for the car go through the passenger side wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 If everything was changed I will rule that out. Usually when you get a bunch of codes you look for the common denominator. Get me the codes and I will see if I can hunt it down to the plug or plugs that may be the issue. If this happened without the blower motor repair I would take a different tact, but now I am going with this line of thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdarius Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 P0700 generic transmission control (mil request) P1709 That's it. I have a new family member though, the innova 3100 obd2 reader. It has a lot more data available, just not sure what's relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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