86hatchback Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Yeah I have that exact page bookmarked on my computer. Funny thing is I ended up getting the same wheels and my hatch is the same color. Ok so hears some side by side pictures of the two cross members and their bracing. Seems like a lot of work to move all the ears vs just adjusting the bushing tube, or cutting the end off and adding a heim joint like all the rock crawler guys use. Just as a reference the clean one is ea81on top ea82 is on the bottom ea82 backing plate ea81 backing plate Looks like the ea82 has a bit of a jog in the main down bend of the cross member Edited February 12, 2012 by 86hatchback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 looking at the xmembers, the mounts for the control arms look to be about the same, just moved a bit, lol. the real question i have, since i am looking into doing some simular work to my brat, if i swap the cross memebers, can i still run the brat control arms or do i need to switch to ea82 control arms? i actually just remembered that i have a spare turbo crossmember from a stash of rx parts i have. so if i can swap that over, and still be able to use the rest of the parts, ill be a happy camper and i wont have to cut and weld the stock cross member for the exhaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Ok.. I'm stumped. While taking apart the 89 hatch dash board, I found this. I assume an ECM The Brat never had one of these, nor the wiring for it. Every plug here is accounted for. As for the manual that I have for the earlier wiring diagram. It shows the wiring diagram for an 86 Brat to have an ECM. How was I driving this Brat for 6 months without an ECM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I have this to work with for the Legacy wiring. But once I break down the Legacy wiring to what I need, will I need to splice in the plugs from things like the tach, oil pressure gauge, battery gauge, or any other dash gauge function? Probably forgetting a few.. I'm not sure how to tell what wires from the Brat dash gauge plugs should be soldered to which Legacy ECU wires? One reason why I was considering fitting the Legacy dash gauges.. Edited February 16, 2012 by lyter1983 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Each one is different. How you hook them up or if you hook them up depends on how you want to solve each problem and knowing how to deal with each one really depends on understanding how each of those systems work on both the Brat and the Legacy and deciding which, if either, you want to use. The oil pressure for instance - the Brat uses a sending unit for a gauge and the Legacy doesn't have a gauge - it uses an idiot light. So what do you want to do? You can plumb the Brat's sending unit into the EJ oil pump or you can add an idiot light to the Brat..... dealers choice. Tach is a differrent problem with a different solution. It has to be hooked to the tach signal generator. In the Brat's thats the negative side of the coil. On the Legacy it's a signal generator circuit in the ECU. So you just route the wire that went to the negative side of the coil to the tach signal generator pin of the ECU and the gauge will work. Each wire has it's own explanation for how and why it works and what possible solutions there are. You need to read the EJ swap threads and write-up's to get a handle on all of these and how you want to do it. I can't list them all here. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 You can't run the Legacy fuel pump. It's an in-tank pump and the Brat is setup for an external pump. You need to run something like an EA82 SPFI pump (I use these most of the time since they are cheap in the yards) or the Ford F-150 pump. You need a 50 psi capable pump. The Brat's carb pump puts out 2.5 psi and it will not even come close to working. Won't even start the engine in fact. You will also have to replace all the Brat's fuel lines for the fuel supply downstream of the pump as well as for the return side with high-pressure fuel injection hose. The stock hoses will not handle the pressure that EJ's run at and will burst. GD I am replacing all the fuel lines straight back to the tank. But in trying to find a 50 psi fuel pump, I have come up with the highest of 17 psi. 50 GPH but only 17 psi. Is there some miss communication here? All of the Ford F150 pumps are only 9-12 psi.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Hhhmm - the Subaru SPFI pumps are 50 psi. The F150 pump in question is a frame-rail mounted pump for the 80's fuel injected models I believe. I always just use the EA82 SPFI pumps. Plentiful in the yards, low failure rate, and we have one running an EJ25 frankenmotor without issue. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 I believe the 2 hoses coming from the bottom of the tank are fuel sending and return.(according to my manual) The third line goes to the EVAP system of which I will get a better look at tomorrow when I drop the Brat gas tank. I've compared the Legacy EVAP box and hoses to the 89 Hatch box and hoses and found most of the same components. Different shapes and sizes but I think I get the idea. But from behind the cab, the hoses are all what appear to be decent rubber hoses. Is it just the lines that run from engine compartment to back of cab that I have to change? Do I have to replace any of the EVAP hoses or system? Or are those hoses ok to use? When I install the new fuel pump, should I install it near the tank or in the engine compartment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Evap system doesn't matter. Install the fuel pump in the same location as the old one. Replace the supply and return hoses with fuel injection hose. The return is smaller than the supply so you will have to use several different hose sizes. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Cool, so I don't have to touch the evap stuff. What's the difference between the Brat rubber hoses that comes from the tank send and return vs the fuel injected hoses? Can I use the hoses that came from the Legacy tank to lines to connect the new lines to the Brat tank? And.. Neither the Brat nor the Legacy "caliper holders"(for lack of terminology) fit the XT6 back plates, I assume this means I have to find "caliper holders" and buy calipers, pads and rotors for an XT6 as well right? More money I don't have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for specs wise for a fuel pump. Will this work? Airtex Master/Fuel Pump Part Number: E2158 Fitting Size: Outlet -.348 in. Fitting Type: Inlet - filter, outlet - hose connection Gallons Per Hour: 45-55 Pressure Rating: 85-95 psi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for specs wise for a fuel pump. Will this work? Airtex Master/Fuel Pump Part Number: E2158 Fitting Size: Outlet -.348 in. Fitting Type: Inlet - filter, outlet - hose connection Gallons Per Hour: 45-55 Pressure Rating: 85-95 psi No. That's an intank pump. It doesn't have the right type of connection at the inlet, and it probably has a overflow drain, so it will be spurting fuel out the bottom while running (fine for in-tank, not good for external;) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Ok. I have found 15+ people who will cut, lengthen and weld my drive shaft, but no one who will balance it. Any advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPGsuperchargedBrumby Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 ask around some of the local machining shops (the type that do lathe and milling work) they should know who has balancing equipment in the area. someone should have a balancer....a lot of shafts on industrial gear need balanced during repairs/maintenace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 ask around some of the local machining shops (the type that do lathe and milling work) they should know who has balancing equipment in the area. someone should have a balancer....a lot of shafts on industrial gear need balanced during repairs/maintenace I've asked at least 10 different machine shops. They all said they could lengthen it but none had the equipment or new where to balance it.. Most of them do lathe and milling but they all said you need a different machine to balance. I also tried out of state places that I found online, but none of them would touch it. 2 places said no way and hung up on me before I could say any thing else. Monday I'm going to try the trucking place that is going to fix our sander for work. Got my fingers crossed! :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Ok. I have found 15+ people who will cut, lengthen and weld my drive shaft, but no one who will balance it. Any advice? So, wait......you are going from an EA81 4spd 4wd, to a EJ 5MT AWD? Are you sure you need to lengthen it? You have to SHORTEN drivelines to go from EA82 5spd 4wd to EJ 5spdAWD. Is the 4spd that much longer? When I went from EA82 5spd to EJ AWD in my wagon, I had to shorten. I cut it, ground down the shoulder on the yolk till it sleeved nicely back into the shortened tube. Then I mounted the trans end into an old junk tailsection and held the other end, rotating it till it didnt' wobble. Then my buddy hit it with the MIG welder as I slowly spun it round. No balancing. 100mph. no shaking. Edited March 4, 2012 by Gloyale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 The 4 speed is a LOT longer than any of the 5 speeds. Probably about 8" longer. It's pretty rediculous actually. If it were me - I would weld it up myself and then see if it even needed balancing. If you want a custom driveline made and balanced - these guys do a great job. http://www.driveshafts.com/ GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 The 4 speed is a LOT longer than any of the 5 speeds. Probably about 8" longer. It's pretty rediculous actually. If it were me - I would weld it up myself and then see if it even needed balancing. If you want a custom driveline made and balanced - these guys do a great job. http://www.driveshafts.com/ GD How are their prices? I have someone who thinks they can use tranny end of Legacy drive shaft, and machine it down to fit into the rear diff end of the Brat drive shaft. Then welding the seam. Does that sound like it would work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 IIRC it was about $400 for a driveline for the race Brat. It uses an AWD 5 speed. Yeah sounds like it would probably work ok. Why don't you just shorten the Legacy driveline, make some carrier bearing mounts, and change the rear diff flange to match? GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Why don't you just shorten the Legacy driveline, make some carrier bearing mounts, and change the rear diff flange to match? GD If I shortened the Legacy drive shaft I would either need to make 2 cuts/welds or have one shaft really short. wasn't sure how that would work. And the U-joints are different so I wasn't sure how to use the Brat flange on the Legacy shaft. So I thought it would be easier this way with only one cut/weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) If I shortened the Legacy drive shaft I would either need to make 2 cuts/welds or have one shaft really short. wasn't sure how that would work. And the U-joints are different so I wasn't sure how to use the Brat flange on the Legacy shaft. So I thought it would be easier this way with only one cut/weld. Shorten the front section. Mount the carrier bearing to the tunnel. 90-98 Legacy shaft should bolt right to the Brat diff. After 98+ I've seen some larger flanges, but they interchange. Remove the matching flange and slide it onto the diff your using. ***** another thought...Early Nissan 2wd Pickups use the same slide into the trans, and same flange for the diff. They are pretty long, one piece. might work, just looked at one on the shop floor and thought it was pretty long and might work. Edited March 6, 2012 by Gloyale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Shorten the front section. Mount the carrier bearing to the tunnel. 90-98 Legacy shaft should bolt right to the Brat diff. After 98+ I've seen some larger flanges, but they interchange. Remove the matching flange and slide it onto the diff your using. ***** another thought...Early Nissan 2wd Pickups use the same slide into the trans, and same flange for the diff. They are pretty long, one piece. might work, just looked at one on the shop floor and thought it was pretty long and might work. Any chance you could take a measurement of that Nissan drive shaft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Got a wiring question.. I feel like I'm making progress but also feel stuck.. I've read that I only need 2 relays, fuel pump relay and main relay. And to use the starter relay from the Brat. Do I splice in all the wires from the Legacy starter relay into the Brat starter relay? And same thing on the ignition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) There is no such animal as a "starter relay". And the EJ harness has it's own ignition relay - that's the brown 6 pin unit you are calling a "main relay". It's really just two relays in one unit that has a single coil to close both. Why are you keeping the shift interlock relay? You putting a 4EAT in your Brat? I don't see any TCU connectors...... GD Edited March 8, 2012 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 There is no such animal as a "starter relay". And the EJ harness has it's own ignition relay - that's the brown 6 pin unit you are calling a "main relay". It's really just two relays in one unit that has a single coil to close both. Why are you keeping the shift interlock relay? You putting a 4EAT in your Brat? I don't see any TCU connectors...... GD Quoting Numbchux: "First off, the relays: You’ll only need 2. The Main/Ignition Relay (Brown) and the Fuel pump relay (Green Connector). You will use the EA starter relay, as it’s already wired in where it’s needed." According to my manual, the brown one is the "main relay" and the green and yellow one is the "starter interlock relay"?? And I'm using the 5spd tranny from the Legacy. I though you only need a TCU for an automatic?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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