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My '83 GL: The Ski Wagon


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1736 replies to this topic

#1351 VaporTrail

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:41 AM

As for mixture adjustment, if you have it 3 or 3-1/2 turns out, it acts like its too lean, cover the barrels with your hand, and the idle picks up and smooths out, so you richen it, I've tried it every which way you can, from 4 turns out to 6 turns out and everywhere in between. It still acts like it is starving, yet the exhaust smells like fuel and it burns you eyes.

But it ALWAYS bucks the same, no matter how the mixture adjustment is set.

Cold start up is perfect, one pump to close the choke, crank, fires up, idles up to about 3000rpm until you kick off the step-up. Idles great, idles great when hot. Drives good if you are on the gas or engine braking. Cruising sucks, starts bucking. You have to keep the motor under load for it not to buck.

Also, once and a while when I shut it off, the engine fires back up (With key off) and will runs for 2 or 3 secs and then stalls (Probably just because fuel is igniting from the heat) I don't have any anti-dieseling solenoid on the carb. It doesn't diesel, it just starts back up lol and then stalls.


standard starting point for weber should be about 2 turns out...

#1352 VaporTrail

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:47 AM

I meant going for example from 4th to 3rd or 2nd rather than shifting up. What rpm's are you seeing when it is surging?


Oh, yeah, the engine response is right there when you downshift and bring the RPMs up, it has pull aswell.

The bucking/surging/sputtering happens at any and all RPM range when you are lightly on the throttle (Not enough throttle to start pulling, just enough throttle to maintain speed)


sounds to me like its getting to much gas in the carb. making it sputter and buck because its drowning the carb. with to much gas which is why your smelling unused gas, my brat started having the same problem as yours and its parked for now waiting for a carb. rebuild (maybe spark plugs are not gaped right?)


exactly....

that's how my Brat ran with the Holley 600 on it :) always had to keep it revv'ed...

need to set your idle mixture screw to 2 turns out, and start from there with re-adjusting...

#1353 TheLoyale

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:22 AM

It will not even idle at 2 turns out, won't even fire up. It has to be 3 to 3-1/4 turns out for it to start up, even then it wants to stall unless you keep feathering the throttle.

Having it 4+ turns out is where its happy, idles and starts good, revvs good.

This is why I'm thinking this carb is defective (Like the disty I bought)

#1354 VaporTrail

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 11:18 AM

It will not even idle at 2 turns out, won't even fire up. It has to be 3 to 3-1/4 turns out for it to start up, even then it wants to stall unless you keep feathering the throttle.

Having it 4+ turns out is where its happy, idles and starts good, revvs good.

This is why I'm thinking this carb is defective (Like the disty I bought)


I'd pull the idle jet out and spray carb cleaner or air through to make sure the passageways are clear...
also, at idle, there has to be a bit of vac going through to pull the fuel,
when you cup your hand over it it increases the vac pressure and pulls in the fuel

set your idle mixture to 3 turns out.
make sure your throttle cable has slack in it...
turn throttle adjustment screw until it touches the thrttle plate and starts to move it. then turn another half turn so that your throttle is partly open
Then adjust your throttle cable so the slack just goes away.

try starting.

adjust trottle adjust ment further and try to start, before adjusting the mixture screw.

your just off idle performance is going to be set by a combination of those 2 items mostly.

#1355 TheLoyale

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 12:07 PM

We pulled all jets out and checked and cleaned passages yesterday. So everything is indeed open.

I will try these adjustment steps right now!

#1356 TheLoyale

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 01:44 PM

Okay, I did exactly like you said. I started at 3 turns out and adjusted the throttle holder screw. Fired it up, fired up great, let it warm up. It was idling a little rough, so I adjusted it to 3-1/2 turns out, drove it around, drives better than it did, so I came back and adjusted it a fraction more, idles really good. Drove it around, adjusted it out a little more.

So right now, it is adjusted to 3-3/4 turns out. Idles great, just off idle with little bit of clutch (Like backing up) smooth and nice. But I still have bucking, sometimes its not as bad, sometimes it feels like the car is humping you lol.

Here is a senario, slowing down to turn onto a side street, left it in 3rd with clutch out, RPMs are about 1500rpm entering the turn, come out of the turn feed normal amount of throttle, one little buck and then it smoothed out (Little boggy because of such a big gear) once the load became less on the motor (At about 20mph in 3rd) the bucking started unless you give it more throttle.

I'm gonna leave the adjustments where they are for now.

Jon, maybe your dad can make some sense out of this.

#1357 TheLoyale

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 01:46 PM

I should note, I do not have the vapor light hooked to anything, its open (Into the engine bay) I dunno how to run it? I tried running it into the air cleaner, but it started sucking fuel out of the line, not a lot, but the air cleaner plate and filter were wet. What am I suppose to do with the vapor/vent coming out of the firewall?

Also, the other line is a return, correct? I have that capped off.

#1358 VaporTrail

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:57 PM

Here is a senario, slowing down to turn onto a side street, left it in 3rd with clutch out, RPMs are about 1500rpm entering the turn, come out of the turn feed normal amount of throttle, one little buck and then it smoothed out (Little boggy because of such a big gear) once the load became less on the motor (At about 20mph in 3rd) the bucking started unless you give it more throttle.

I'm gonna leave the adjustments where they are for now.

Jon, maybe your dad can make some sense out of this.


okay... I think now it's just the driver... ;)

at 20 mph you should be in second gear...

#1359 TheLoyale

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 04:38 PM

okay... I think now it's just the driver... ;)

at 20 mph you should be in second gear...


I realize that, I left it in 3rd to see what it would do. If the motor would not buck under that type of load or if it would still buck. Answer was, it does not buck under load.

I did do something productive today...

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#1360 TheLoyale

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 04:41 PM

Its not the driver lol. It bucks at 4000rpm on the interstate too! It bucks ALL THE TIME under light throttle. I think this motor is junk. Time to swap in an SPFI EA82 :-p

#1361 1982gl4

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:14 PM

I did do something productive today...

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Those came out really nice! If I was going to keep my quads I would probably do this. Can't wait to see them on the car. :popcorn:

#1362 TheLoyale

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:36 PM

Here ya go.

They are indeed darker orange than this photo shows. They look factory amber, even with the lights on. I am also running Amber 194s to richen the color more, Looks great in person!
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#1363 turbosubarubrat

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 11:04 PM

i remember u saying u wanted a set of 15 inch peugeots, i found a set on craigslist but the guy wants to sell them with the car or he said he would change his mind for the right offer heres the link http://portland.crai...3252919610.html

#1364 TOONGA

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:29 AM

I have just read through this and what a read, quite an interesting build.

Have you solved the "bucking" problem ?

I worked on a friends brumby/ brat and it had the same problem, I rebuilt the hitachi, new gaskets on the manifold... the only thing I didn't check was the phenolic spacer which was cracked and not only was it letting air in it was letting water in from the cold start well at the base of the carby / top of the manifold.

I have also seen people having problems with the weber adaptor plate not covering the cold start well properly, causing water to get into the manifold under vacuum / acceleration.

I miss my old 82 wagon I wish I had never sold it :(

TOONGA

#1365 TheLoyale

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:44 AM

Turbo, I did want a set of 15" pugs. But I am going to go with 16" Steel spoke wheels when I redrill the hubs. Someone should pick those up, nice clean set!

Toonga, Thanks for the compliments. As for the Bucking, no sir, haven't figured it out yet. I'm planning to get a fresh set of eyes to take a look and listen to the motor this weekend, perhaps than we'll have it sorted out! I would be keen to drive this car all about once we fix the bucking.

As for the Weber adaptor, you would be correct. Folks have had them leak coolant and such. What I did was use RTV on the gasket and filled up coolant passage port on the intake, then seated the adaptor and torqued it down, have no had any trouble with that yet, and don't think I shall. The RTV was an extra safety measure, I do the same thing with Oil and Water pumps to prevent premature leakage.



-Tom

#1366 TheLoyale

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 03:19 PM

The time has come, after months of adjustments and cussing. THE BUCKING IS GONE!

I went over to Jboymechanic's (Jon's) house, and his Dad (Lynn) checked out the vacuum the motor was producing, it was very shaky to start with and low, he then checked to make sure the Vacuum Advance was holding vacuum, it did.

Lynn then plugged off the EGR, adjusted the Mixture screw out 1/4 turn at a time, until we hit maximum vacuum on the intake, which was a total of 22 cubic inches. We then checked and reset the timing to 12* BTDC, took it down the road and all bucking was gone. Came back, connected the EGR, and before I even left the driveway, we could feel the bucking had come back. Disconnect the EGR, and it is smooth again.

The EGR was the main issue here. I am leaving the EGR disconnected, and capped off the port on the carb for it, the EGR will act as its own block off plate with no vac going to it.

Problem solved, once and for all!

Big thanks goes out to Lynn and Jon for tracking this issue down. :headbang:

#1367 bratman18

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 03:22 PM

Awesome, congrats man!

#1368 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 03:25 PM

I always Disconnect the EGR on the EA Engines that I Repair... it tend to cause that issues.

I'm Glad to Know that you solved that Problem.

By the Way, your Subie does Look Good.

Kind Regards.


#1369 Idasho

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:01 PM

The time has come, after months of adjustments and cussing. THE BUCKING IS GONE!

I went over to Jboymechanic's (Jon's) house, and his Dad (Lynn) checked out the vacuum the motor was producing, it was very shaky to start with and low, he then checked to make sure the Vacuum Advance was holding vacuum, it did.

Lynn then plugged off the EGR, adjusted the Mixture screw out 1/4 turn at a time, until we hit maximum vacuum on the intake, which was a total of 22 cubic inches. We then checked and reset the timing to 12* BTDC, took it down the road and all bucking was gone. Came back, connected the EGR, and before I even left the driveway, we could feel the bucking had come back. Disconnect the EGR, and it is smooth again.

The EGR was the main issue here. I am leaving the EGR disconnected, and capped off the port on the carb for it, the EGR will act as its own block off plate with no vac going to it.

Problem solved, once and for all!

Big thanks goes out to Lynn and Jon for tracking this issue down. :headbang:


Glad you got it sorted out, but, you could have solved it yourself if you had followed my suggestions.... :-\


I think you still have a vac leak.

Run through it again, what vac lines do you have attached to the intake?

I would start by removing the lines and capping the ports, one at a time.
beyond that, carb cleaner or propane gas works great for finding leaks.


So as I suggested.... you still have a leak somewhere.

Do you have a Vac line for the H-Vac? How about brake booster? What about the dizzy? Does the car have cruise control? And EGR as you mentioned.

All are still suspect until you rule them out systematically.



#1370 TheLoyale

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:02 PM

Lynn told me EGRs seem to cause more issues than good. He tries to eliminate them when he can, like on the Big V8s. Also, seeing that I do not have to take this car to Emissions testing because it is older than 1996, there is no point on having any of the emissions control stuff on this motor.

It is very nice to drive this car now, I can puts around a parking lot slowly without bucking and sounding like its gonna die. Very cool!

#1371 TheLoyale

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:04 PM

Glad you got it sorted out, but, you could have solved it yourself if you had followed my suggestions.... :-\


That is interesting. As I did cap off the EGR a while before that post, and it still had bucking. But this was also back when I had the carb a little too lean and the timing was off as I later sorted out with my timing light.

Perhaps that is why I dismissed the EGR from causing the issue.

#1372 Subruise

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 06:12 PM

im glad you fixed that motherbucker...........(mods have mercy i felt it appropriate). so glad you didnt sell that thing. ill be heading to oly within the next week or two depending on wifeys awesome pay and crappy schedule. :headbang:

#1373 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 06:35 PM

... EGRs seem to cause more issues than good. ...


I absolutely agree, also Subaru somehow... the Last (Third Gen) Heads for the EA82 came factory without EGR Passage, as I explained ~► Here at the Bottom.

Kind Regards.


#1374 TheLoyale

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:52 PM

JesZek, thank you for the link. I may even make a block off plate and remove the EGR for a cleaner look.

Rob, awesome! I am gonna get your CB to you asap. I get paid friday and will ship it out friday afternoon! I am very glad we figured this out, and it was not a faulty carb, I still have never seen a carb with such poor internal castings though.

Now I need to get the clutch done!

#1375 TheLoyale

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:23 PM

Anybody know where I can get clips like these? These ones made by Auveco are discontinued. There must be another clip like this eh?

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