51 replies to this topic

[Fairtax4me]

Phase 2 2.2 heads aren't dual port?

[987687]

Phase 2 2.2 heads aren't dual port?

Nope, they're all single port.
Also, phase 2 intake manifolds are all the same, 2.2 and 2.5. You can swap them. Unlike on phase1 engines where 2.2 and 2.5 intakes are different.

I don't think either phase1 intake will bolt to a phase2... I'm gonna have to check next time I'm at the junk yard, because now I'm confused.

[fixitguy50]

Why do you say to use the crank, cam sprockets and manifold from the 2.2 on the 251 ? What if the crank on the 2.2 needs replacing ?

[Fairtax4me]

You're getting rid of the 2.2 anyway so the crank doesn't matter. All you need is the sprocket that drives the timing belt. The only difference is the number of notches on the edge for the crank position sensor to read.

[fixitguy50]

Thanks guys, your awesome!

[987687]

If the crank sprocket is the same, you don't have to swap it. There are two different crank sprockets. Some of them only have a hand full of reluctor lobes, some have a whole bunch. If the crank sprocket on the new engine is the same as on your old one, you don't have to swap it.

[fixitguy50]

So, I got the engine out and the heads taken off. Exhaust valves in right side head do not close fully and heavy carbon on top of all four pistons. I still see cross hatch marks on the two cylinder bores with the pistons down. I have an old Haynes manual for up to 1998, but this is a 1999 2.2 EJ22. Anybody know if the specs are the same or where I can get a good manual for a 1999 Legacy engine ?

[ivans imports]

pull pistons and look at the top side for damage knurll acordiingly or replace them

[GeneralDisorder]

You will need a manual that covers the 99 to 01 Impreza as that is the only car that used the EJ222 for long enough to be covered in a manual. Only base model Legacy's in '99 got that engine. 00 and up all got the 2.5 and 90 to 98 all got the phase 1 2.2. The specs for the 00 to 04 EJ251/2/3/4 are very similar except for bore sizes, etc. Head bolt torque is the same on all EJ series engines regardless of year but you should use the latest procedure you can get your hands on.

Use the valve adjustment specs from under the hood of the Legacy.

If valves are open without the cams installed then you obviously have a problem there....

If all your pistons are not exactly half way up in the cylinder bore then you didn't align the timing marks prior to removing the timing belt - which could have caused bent valves if the cam moved under spring pressure with the piston at or near TDC. With the timing marks aligned all pistons are at the half way point and cannot strike a valve.

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder, 03 November 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[fixitguy50]

I'm having trouble splitting the case. All the bolts shown in the manual (for phase I EJ22) plus one on the back of the engine and another in the front of the pan have been removed. Any suggestions on how to get the case apart. I have the right side up and have tried a mallet and a hammer with a wood block to no avail.

[Fairtax4me]

How many bolts did you remove?
Should be 17 bolts total IIRC. There are a few in the corners of the cooling passages right by the cylinder walls. The cylinder walls are actually notched where these bolts are.

If you're sure you got them all, a bottle jack in the bell-housing can get things started.

[Ricearu]

If you are sure all the bolts are out, a plastic dead-blow (maraca) hammer does the trick every time.

[fixitguy50]

I found 18 bolts, 10 on left side, 6 large bolts on R side, one in bellhousing on R side and one in front pan area on R side. After I scooted the block to the edge of the workbench a firm blow with hammer and wooded block did the trick. There's a pin in the left front side that was sticking. So, there's heavy carbon deposits on the pistons and valves. The rod journals of the pistons look like they got hot and there is wear on the upper side of the piston pin bushings. I can see scratches on the crank journals, but can't feel them. I debating buying a mic set so I can know how bad it is. Looking at the heads, all the valves will probably need guides Knurled or replaced and maybe some valves. The front #1 exhaust valve closed when I took off the rocker shafts, so I guessing carbon deposits or worn guides were holding it open. Advice on what to check ?

Edited by fixitguy50, 08 November 2012 - 11:23 AM.
spelling

[GeneralDisorder]

To be quite honest it sounds like it would have kept going for another 100k.

Pictures will tell me more, but honesty it doesn't sound like it has enough wear to speak of. Sure the crank may want polished but if you can't feel the scuffing then there will be no measurable wear.

Wrist pins don't fail in these so some slight wear there isn't a concern.

Carbon is going to be completely normal for 280k.

As I said back on page two - you probably should have just run it till it blows. In any case now that it's apart just chuck the bits in the recycle since it's not economically viable to rebuild the 2.2's. I just got an '03 EJ251 for $650 for example. And at 280k spending a ridiculous amount of money and time to fix the car is unwise - the transmission probably doesn't have more than another 100k or less in it. You can get that from a used engine which you can typically buy a warranty on if you are so inclined.

I know you want to believe you are going about this the right way but I do this every day - I swap at least 3-4 engines a month and I've rebuilt a couple dozen as well - it's just too much hassle and the first time out you will probably not get it exactly right. How much frustration is this really worth?

GD

[fixitguy50]

So, now that I measured the pistons and cylinders I'm looking for a replacement engine. You've recommended an EJ251. How about a EJ25d or other engines ? I't seems most the used subarus for sale have 200K and engine noise.

[Gloyale]

In any case now that it's apart just chuck the bits in the recycle since it's not economically viable to rebuild the 2.2's.

I about spit out my coffee reading this.

Are you kidding?

I rebuild 2.2s all the time.

Polish the crank, hone the bores, have the valves done and the heads surfaced. That's about $300 right there, cheaper if you do the hone and valves yourself.

Now add another $250 in headgaskets, seals, etc...

That puts it at $550. That's $100 cheaper than a used engine. And it's BRAND NEW! Use that $100 towards new t-belt.

Junkyard engines are a crapshoot. Subarus last along time, but not forever, and I am sick of installing used stuff only for it to have problems next year.

If you have the skills and time (which the OP does, the engine is already apart:brow:) it is a way better option to rebuild. Easily economically viable.

Also, there is just a great feeling driving a fresh engine, you built yourself.

[fixitguy50]

The cylinders are out of round with the front to back (thrust) measurement greater at the top. The cylinders are scuffed from piston slap and the pistons are 20 thousandths smaller than standard. The cost of oversized pistons and having the cylinders bored is the problem. A set if piston is about $600 unless you can steer me to a good parts source. I would rather rebuild, just don't know if I can justify it.

Edited by fixitguy50, 12 November 2012 - 11:54 AM.

[GeneralDisorder]

That puts it at $550. That's $100 cheaper than a used engine. And it's BRAND NEW! Use that $100 towards new t-belt.

I routinely get good used condition 2.2's for $100 to $300. I've installed dozens and dozens of them and of those exactly one threw a rod - and it was one the customer payed $1100 for because it had 90k on it. The yard gave him another with 72k on it and it's been fine every since.

Junkyard engines are a crapshoot. Subarus last along time, but not forever, and I am sick of installing used stuff only for it to have problems next year.

I don't buy them from "junk yards". I buy them from reputable automotive recyclers that warranty their engines and don't sell questionable "junk"

If I were going to rebuild an engine then I would rebuild a 25D (which I have plenty of laying around) and put the 2.2 heads on it. Why bother with rebuilding the 135 HP block when I can rebuild the 165 HP block for the same money and drop it in place of the 2.2?

I agree it's more economical if you are doing the work yourself but if you have never done one before then there's a high likelihood of something not being right with the build.

GD

[ivans imports]

take a 2.2 anyday best ej motor ever very rebiuldabble and reliabble if all the second gen subarus had ej 2.2s i whould be outa work. Have done 22 2.51 s in last two months all trown rods and blown headgaskets the 2.2s only come in for oil leaks and timing belts never broken

[GeneralDisorder]

The cylinders are out of round with the front to back (thrust) measurement greater at the top. The cylinders are scuffed from piston slap and the pistons are 20 thousandths smaller than standard. The cost of oversized pistons and having the cylinders bored is the problem. A set if piston is about $600 unless you can steer me to a good parts source. I would rather rebuild, just don't know if I can justify it.

How much out of round on the cylinders?

You can knurl the piston skirts to make up a portion of the .020 diameter difference and keep more oil on the skirts to dampen the slap. Runs about $10 per piston.

GD

[GeneralDisorder]

So, now that I measured the pistons and cylinders I'm looking for a replacement engine. You've recommended an EJ251. How about a EJ25d or other engines ? I't seems most the used subarus for sale have 200K and engine noise.

25D will not work easily. You need the phase-II SOHC to do a complete long-block swap. That means either the EJ251/2/3/4 or an EJ222.

Check www.car-part.com for engines in your area that will fit the bill. 1999 Forester, and Impreza 2.5RS, and 2000 to 2004 2.5's will work. As well as the '99 to '01 EJ222 that you already have. But typically they ask a lot for those as they only fit a very narrow window of cars and they try to gouge people for "rare" engines - the truth is that you can easily drop in a 2.5 in it's place.

GD

[fixitguy50]

So, I found a 2.5 SOHC with valve problems. If the block is in good shape, can I use it with 2.2 heads ?

Edited by fixitguy50, 13 November 2012 - 11:58 AM.
not to the point

[GeneralDisorder]

What kind of valve problems does it have? If it's burning oil from the rings this can cause a burned valve....

You can put 2.2 heads on it but you might have to use some Cometic gaskets to bring the compression ratio under control. Usually 2.2 heads result in a compression increase due to the smaller combustion chamber sizes. You will also want to round off the edges of the smaller 2.2 combustion chamber so you don't create hot spots in the cylinder.

Easier and more desirable to just fix the valves on the 2.5 heads. Especially with 280k on the 2.2 heads - they need a rebuild with new valves and guides anyway. Seems silly to bother with the extra work when you will have 2.5 heads you can rebuild.

GD

[fixitguy50]

Well the 2.5 had a crack in the block. So, I'm still looking. I'm have never bought an engine from a salvage yard. I've got a 2.2 to go see that's supposed to have 100K and a 2.5 with unknown mileage and still in the car. So, do I just install it, change the oil and filter and crank it up or what ? Most of the engines I've seen so far have corrosion and oil spray on the intake manifold. Is the corrosion normal or an indication of road salt or a coolent leak ?

[Gloyale]

I routinely get good used condition 2.2's for $100 to $300.

I somehow feel like you are exagerating a bit here. however That's great for you. But it's not a realistic representation of the market value of these engines to the average cutomer, in nationwide markets.

I don't buy them from "junk yards". I buy them from reputable automotive recyclers that warranty their engines and don't sell questionable "junk"

I buy alot of engines as well. I deal with reputable, interstate, automotive wrecker/recyclers. The last 2.2 I bought, out of washington, was $650 with a $75 core. That was last month. I can show you the reciept. And I get Shop discounts average Joe don't.

And as for warranties. You must install all new waterpump, timingbelt, thermostat, and radiator (and have radiator flow tested, with reciept) in order to even think about returning it for warranty.

I haven't had any "fail" completely....but several have been oil burners.....something that a rebuild won't do.

If I were going to rebuild an engine then I would rebuild a 25D (which I have plenty of laying around) and put the 2.2 heads on it. Why bother with rebuilding the 135 HP block when I can rebuild the 165 HP block for the same money and drop it in place of the 2.2?

Durability. 25D bottom ends are junk.....48mm journal, steep rod angle. Won't hold up to high revs like a 1.8/2.2 bottom end will.