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95 legacy 2.2 swap into 00 2.5rs


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42 replies to this topic

#26 WoodsWagon

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:51 AM

Is it a 2 door coupe or a 4 door sedan?

You'd be better off leaving the 2.2 in the wagon and just driving that. Swapping the wiring to the 2.5rs destroys what value it has left.

There's plenty of good running phase2's out there. You'd be wasting your time to swap a phase1 in when you can readily find phase2 donors in junkyards.

#27 imprezajunkie

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 08:04 AM

sorry its a 4dr so probably the least desirable since its auto too.lol

personally I think switching it to phase 1 would be better for value since parts and engines are cheaper and more available. with all the people doing turbo swaps, they would be changing wiring anyway I think. thats just my opinion though. I know I wish I had the 98 rs right now so it would already be phase 1. it can never be easy though.

My rs body is in good shape but the wagon is rusting out and needs shocks and the hand brake is busted. so I was going to put the running motor in the good body but then all this info came about. I've heard people getting phase 2's to replace their blown phase 2's only to have the new engine spin a bearing or something within 10k miles so thats what is turning me off of them. you never know other then what the seller tells you.

does anyone know if there is some mod to oil the bearings better, or if there are more reliable rod bearings out there that I could swap in while motor is out?

#28 987687

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 08:40 AM

The phase2 engines are better. I want to put one of those SOHC ones in my 98, reverse of what you want to do.

Everyone is telling you not to do the swap, but you say you're going to anyway.
Why keep asking?
It's not a good swap and will ruin the value of the car. I'd probably give you $500 or $600 for it in the current condition if I was still looking. But if the wiring was hacked up, I'd walk. It wouldn't pass emissions anywhere, and hacked up wiring makes nightmares.

If you really want you can run the STi oil pump, it flows more. It's not necessary, but you can if you want.

#29 imprezajunkie

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:59 AM

ya, I guess I've been flip flopping on what I'd like to do. I guess its in my best interest to take your guys advice and try to get another phase 2 to dump in it. I really don't want to get rid of the car, I paid 8400 for it 6 years ago and its condition is overall 6/10 if it had a running motor in it. it needs some tlc thats for sure.

so end of thread, I'll find a phase 2 eventually and it will be plug and play othr then my 5 spd swap which I already know how to do and how to get cruise and abs working with. thanks for all your help, wouldn't have figured all this out without you guys.

#30 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:58 PM

You don't have to hack anything to put the '95 engine in. Intake adaptors and swap the crank/cam sprockets. That's about it actually. Should run no problem.

GD

#31 WoodsWagon

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:13 PM

They're speed density GD, so the computer will be expecting a 2.5l with a certain volumetric efficeincy, and it will be fueling a 2.2l with less VE to boot.
It's not like the phase1's which are all MAF, and automatically compensate for the smaller motor.

It's not a good swap, especially when he could sell the motor out of the wagon for $300, the body for scrap for $200, and buy the right motor to go into the car. It's not like he's in backwoods Alaska trying to cobble something together with whats available, subaru's are everywhere in the northeast.

#32 imprezajunkie

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:14 PM

^edit: thats a good point and a very important one that I didn't even think about! phase 2 does use MAP sensor so that sounds about right. I'd have to use the 2.2 ecu and at that point, the 2.2 heads and intake for the MAF and idle system. after I get another engine and get it going, I'm sure I could get 600-700 around here for my wagon. its rusty and falling apart a bit but its still solid and runs fine. I'd get a cheap trans or junk impreza for the trans swap at this point as well since I need an impreza driveshaft anyhow. just need money so eventually.

I'm sure the adapter works but I've heard very mixed opinions on the cam/crank swap. (I've been asking on a couple forums). since I'm doing a trans swap as well I suppose that the plug and play phase 2 would simplify things and speed up the process. I'll be doing the swap in a driveway. I'm not keen on using a phase 2 but I think I'd rather do that then the 2.5 heads on the 2.2 now. using the sti oil pump might oil the engine better as well but idk if stock ecu would be able to run it since it flows more.

I'll have to save up for a while when I get another job but I want to do timing belt kit, rear main seal, oil seal, and upgrade to sti head gaskets before the motor goes in. I'm just going to stick with this decision now and keep my confusion to a minimum. thank you for all your help. I learned a lot and it might come in handy in the future.

Edited by imprezajunkie, 24 February 2012 - 04:20 PM.


#33 987687

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:16 PM

Why mixed stuff on cam/crank pully swap?
I have a friend who swapped a 99 SOHC 2.5 into his 01 impreza that had a 2.2.
The 99 is an oddball year, uses MAF, and has the old style crank and cam pullys. He swapped them over, and it worked fine. As did running the 2.5 on the 2.2 computer.

I don't think you can run those 2.5 heads on the 2.2.

Why hell bent to do a trans swap? If it works, run it till it stops working... If you're tight on money, just drive it...

#34 WoodsWagon

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 07:55 PM

A 99 SOHC 2.5 is a phase 2 already, probably out of a forester. I'm not sure Phase 2 SOHC cam pulleys fit properly on to Phase1 cams.

You should call that guy in Conway. It's like a 2 hour drive each way, but he's selling an 01 2.5l with the 5spd trans for $500. It sounds like the combo you need, and looks really easy to pull out because the nose is already off the car.

#35 987687

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 08:36 PM

99 SOHC is kinda inbetween.

Friend of mine got a 99 to install to his 01, and it didn't work. The intake was different (because 99 uses MAF), and the cam and crank gears had to be swapped off the 01.
We had to swap the intake manifold and gears, then it worked fine. The longblock is the same, just the gears and manifold differ in the 99. It's a weird transition model.
I wouldn't know this unless I had to deal with it.

#36 imprezajunkie

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 05:29 AM

interesting. but even if the intake and gears are swaped to the 2.2, wouldn't the 2.5 ecu still be trying to run a 2.5 fuel wise? because of the MAP, it wouldn't "sense" that its running a 2.2 would it?

#37 987687

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 09:34 AM

interesting. but even if the intake and gears are swaped to the 2.2, wouldn't the 2.5 ecu still be trying to run a 2.5 fuel wise? because of the MAP, it wouldn't "sense" that its running a 2.2 would it?


Dunno, all I know is he did phase2 ej22 to phase2 ej25 swap. And it works fine using the 2.2 manifold on the 2.5. It doesn't ping or anything like that.

#38 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 03:34 PM

It will work fine if you build adaptors for the manifold and swap the cam/crank pulleys. People put phase-II EJ22's where 251's and 253's were originally all the time without any runability issues. Oh and you will have to do something for the EGR pipe because they are different.

They're speed density GD, so the computer will be expecting a 2.5l with a certain volumetric efficeincy, and it will be fueling a 2.2l with less VE to boot.


As I said before - I know a guy that put an EJ251 into a '95 Impreza by building adaptor plates for the phase-I manifold and swapping the phase-I cam and crank sprockets over. Yes they do fit and the ECU will not have a problem with the smaller engine - as can be seen in all the examples of people swapping EJ223's and EJ251/3's around with impunity - hell I just sold an EJ223 to a fellow member here that put it in an '03 Legacy - runs like a top. It's not dumb enough to fall for your volumetric effeciency theory - it has an O2 sensor and can tell if the engine wants less fuel. The MAP vs. MAF has nothing to do with the ECU's ability to compensate for the engine demand - both systems are designed to do that. That's the whole point of fuel injection.

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder, 26 February 2012 - 07:55 PM.


#39 WoodsWagon

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:26 AM

It's not dumb enough to fall for your volumetric effeciency theory - it has an O2 sensor and can tell if the engine wants less fuel. The MAP vs. MAF has nothing to do with the ECU's ability to compensate for the engine demand - both systems are designed to do that. That's the whole point of fuel injection.
GD

With a speed-density system (which is the strategy a MAP engine uses) the VE and displacement of the engine are critical parts of the programming put into the ECU. It will adjust the fuel trims using the O2 sensor, but the open loop and idle programming will be wrong. Speed-density is dumb fuel injection. It takes a guess on how much fuel to throw in based on the tables it has stored in memory for the size and efficiency of the engine it's fueling.

A MAF measures the actual amount of air getting pulled into the engine, so it makes the fuel injection much more adaptable to changing engine paramaters. I'm sure your engine swaps run fine, but they aren't running right. Even with the tune 12% off, an engine will still run well enough, but the 2.2's are running rich if they're put where 2.5's were on the MAP system. I'm sorry, but on the point of MAF vs MAP being equal for engine changes, you're just plain wrong.

A phase 1 SOHC is also a lot worse flowing head than a phase 2 SOHC, so it's not just displacement differences that throw the speed-density calculations off, the engine also doesn't flow as well for the same manifold pressure.

It's good to know the cam pulleys are swappable between phase 1 and phase 2.

#40 imprezajunkie

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:13 PM

^thats what makes sense to me with MAP vs MAF.

I'm just going to get 99+ stuff as I found out if I want to use my legacy diff in the trans swap, I'll have to swap axels as well. so I'm just going to save and source a phase 2 motor and impreza trans/driveshaft/diff. its just going to be easier that way. then after the impreza is back up I'm going to sell the wagon to counter costs.

I was under the assumption that it would be more of a plug and play swap so thats why I was considering it. while I could rewire the entire car for the 2.2, or mod it as has been stated, I think I just want to keep it simple now. I appreciate the info on the how-to to make it work and all the things to look out for.

#41 987687

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 09:06 PM

You don't need to swap axles for an auto to manual swap.

#42 1997reduxe

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:03 PM

if you're gonna pay 350 or 500 etc for an engine, here's
a whole wagon with 116k on it asking 650:
http://nh.craigslist...2865387803.html
i know, it's a 1990, but maybe until you could get the
engine replaced etc, and you'd have another car too.
of course, i know cars up there on my little search
are beaten into the ground. but, 116K!
and yes, i even looked at canada craigslist...
oh, i meant, 625.
:brow:

Edited by 1997reduxe, 27 February 2012 - 10:06 PM.


#43 imprezajunkie

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:18 AM

not swap because its auto to manual but because of the year differences. apparently 99+ also had axle and diff changes that make my RS axles incompatible with a 95 legacy diff. but like I said, I'm not going to over complicate this anymore. just going to get the appropriate plug and play parts.

there are plenty of 93-97 subies up here for 300-800 bucks. thats not a problem but thank you. currently we just have the wagon but spring is coming so I'll have my rx7 out again. I was doing some metal work on the underside so its put up for winter since I didn't get a chance to undercoat it yet. going to be rust "proofing" it this year with some POR-15 and truck bed liner over top of that. then if need be, I'll have the rx next winter since I want to sell the wagon to offset my costs after the impreza is on the road again.

we get by, it would be cool if anyone was hiring up here though. lol




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