Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Timing belt lifespan


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#26 danbennett2u

danbennett2u

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 500 posts
  • Longmont CO

Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:53 PM

Still havent replaced this yet... guess I am going to get to see how far it will go...

#27 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,831 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:01 PM

Every drive is an adventure with a timing belt that looks like that! Btw, 95 2.2 timing belt kit with Aisin water pump and brown cam and crank seals from Mizumoauto on eBay is only like $130 shipped. Look for their kit to save a couple few $$ when you finally get around to it. Personally, I'd at the very least change the belt, even if you have to wait another couple months to buy a new kit. Even if you got a decent condition used belt off a junkyard car.

#28 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,250 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:47 AM

Buy the kit, and carry it in the car with a few tools (don't forget the 22mm socket)



For myself, I;ve got a whole belt kit in my car. I carry an extra tensioner, pre-compressed and held with a pin.....so I can do the whloe job on the side of the road.

All used tensioners and belts......ones that still have some life.

Of course that's on an EJ18 in my wheeler, which sees submersion in mud regularly, so it goes through alot of idlers and belts.


Don't be like me......change your belt.

#29 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 352 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:21 PM

That's a good question because my mechanic thought I was a nut when I wanted to get mine replaced and he's been working with Subarus for years and years.

I'm guessing that those inner fibers they use to make them may very well be superduper tough...


The impression I get on this board is that those belts are much tougher than we drivers think.

Many of us simply do not know...I'm 98% driver...2% mechanic...but as an automotive engineer I'm probably 35% not full of s___. :D


What exactly do they make those belts out of anyway?

There may be a 'slippery slope' with decay on them...once their integrity is compromised by say a nick or cut or slight fray...it may fail rapidly.




--Damien

#30 MilesFox

MilesFox

    Catch this Fox!

  • Members
  • 10,534 posts
  • Madison/Milwaukee, WI

Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:19 PM

Buy the kit, and carry it in the car with a few tools (don't forget the 22mm socket)



For myself, I;ve got a whole belt kit in my car. I carry an extra tensioner, pre-compressed and held with a pin.....so I can do the whloe job on the side of the road.

All used tensioners and belts......ones that still have some life.

Of course that's on an EJ18 in my wheeler, which sees submersion in mud regularly, so it goes through alot of idlers and belts.


Don't be like me......change your belt.


And this is why we run coverless open belts because you are more likely to fix your car on the side of the rad than you are to be stranded over a broken timing belt. That is, if you enjoy being able to do it like so. You would only have spare parts in your trunk if you were accumulating subaurs and parts. It becomes a habit, eventually.

#31 grossgary

grossgary

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 19,893 posts
  • WV

Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:53 AM

that belt is in awful condition. thanks for being a test mule for us all! we should all donate $10 for your research and then you can get your timing belt!

The impression I get on this board is that those belts are much tougher than we drivers think.

this is mostly about risk and personal choice. timing belt breakage is never black and white and it would be a curve or a statistical quantity, not some asymptotic mystical line where every belt breaks. the longer you let a belt go the more likely it is to break, risk increases, very simple. looking for a number is silly...there's just too many variables in play to ever quantify it. you are correct, the newer EJ belts are far more robust than older 80's belts. but:

do EJ timing belts ever break? of course they do. so this comes down to risk.

some folks don't care about 2% chance of risk...they'll take that chance. others want a near 100% reliability out of their timing belts - the timing belt pictured in this thread is not anywhere near that. so if folks are willing to chance it - awesome. if folks want near 100% timing component reliability then that makes sense too.

if finances are tight - a tow bill, emergency repair, parts, mechanic, new car aren't likely to help either...so it's risky either way, but by not doing anything that is certainly the most immediately rewarding short term decision since you have no cash outlay.

#32 danbennett2u

danbennett2u

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 500 posts
  • Longmont CO

Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:13 AM

that belt is in awful condition. thanks for being a test mule for us all! we should all donate $10 for your research and then you can get your timing belt!

if finances are tight - a tow bill, emergency repair, parts, mechanic, new car aren't likely to help either...so it's risky either way, but by not doing anything that is certainly the most immediately rewarding short term decision since you have no cash outlay.


Yes I am pretty much taking the risk of leaving it this way for now. It isnt really the money, I just dont have time to set aside right now for me and my limited tools to eat up to do this job. Yes I am and have been taking a risk. The wear appears to be pretty consistent across the belt, doesnt look like there is an obvious weak spot (my last belt started fraying on one side before its demise). I definitely want to get this done before winter though, dont want to be messing with this with cold fingers

#33 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 352 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:38 PM

Yes I am pretty much taking the risk of leaving it this way for now. It isnt really the money, I just dont have time to set aside right now for me and my limited tools to eat up to do this job. Yes I am and have been taking a risk. The wear appears to be pretty consistent across the belt, doesnt look like there is an obvious weak spot (my last belt started fraying on one side before its demise). I definitely want to get this done before winter though, dont want to be messing with this with cold fingers


well...it may be just cracked rubber...the composition of those belts must be way tougher than those used for the alternator and power steering.

Can't judge a book by its cover...or candy by its wrapper.


--Damien

#34 grossgary

grossgary

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 19,893 posts
  • WV

Posted 12 September 2012 - 07:18 AM

driving lightly and not getting oil or any other automotive chemicals on it will help. you've made it this far, so you're doing something right, keep doing that.

I just dont have time to set aside right now for me and my limited tools to eat up to do this job.

i'll come do it for you for a place to elk hunt, deal?! :lol:

#35 Mikevan10

Mikevan10

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 302 posts
  • Lehigh Valley

Posted 12 September 2012 - 11:14 AM

I have always wondered about whether operating conditions, such as load and engine speed (rpm) have a sifgnificant effect on the stress on the valve train components. Grossgary suggested that Dan drive lightly. Just wondering how that will help.

#36 Ricearu

Ricearu

    Official De-Ricer!

  • Members
  • 1,208 posts
  • DFW, TX

Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:54 PM

If you press your finger nail into the belt and it dents and leaves an impression, replace it. The nitrile is hard. If it rebounds, It's ok.

#37 danbennett2u

danbennett2u

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 500 posts
  • Longmont CO

Posted 13 September 2012 - 05:02 PM

driving lightly and not getting oil or any other automotive chemicals on it will help. you've made it this far, so you're doing something right, keep doing that.

i'll come do it for you for a place to elk hunt, deal?! :lol:


I dont have any idea where to hunt elk lol...

I dont really drive nice, I like to drive it like a rally car, probably not best for extending that lifespan huh :(

#38 WoodsWagon

WoodsWagon

    Formerly 91Loyale

  • Members
  • 3,945 posts
  • NH

Posted 15 September 2012 - 02:01 AM

I have never seen an EJ belt break. What I have seen is the idlers fail, and also one water pump seize. The most common failure is the cogged tooth idler, it has the tightest belt wrap around it and sees more stress.

My opinion is that it's more important to replace the idlers and water pump than it is to do the belt. The belt is obviously worth doing while you're in there replacing all the idlers, but it isn't the point of the job.

#39 danbennett2u

danbennett2u

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 500 posts
  • Longmont CO

Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:52 AM

I broke a belt once in my EJ22 legacy. I had an occasion where an idler siezed up and threw the belt off but didnt eat it. Many miles later the belt started fraying on the side in one spot, you could even hear it when the car was running. I ignored it and it eventually shredded.

#40 danbennett2u

danbennett2u

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 500 posts
  • Longmont CO

Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:13 PM

To close out the thread:
I am in the process of replacing that cracked belt in advance of a 1400 mile trip. I got the belt off, and while it is a bit stiff, If I bend it at extreme angles it does not seem to have the start of any tooth separation and the cracks do appear to be relegated to the surface. It does not seem that it was in any danger of breaking in the very near future. I can see this is not the original belt, car is at 172k, so I assume it has about 110k ish miles on it.

#41 Boerguy

Boerguy

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Edgewood NM

Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:54 PM

99 Forester with 182k lost all power doing 75mph on I-40 E of Albuquerque last night. Only 10 miles from home. Temp instantly pegged out, much oil smoke (was starting to look for the fire extinguisher) no flames. Called wife, she brought truck, towed home. Engine cooled, dumped gallon of water in, all came out from behind the timing belt cover. OK. I have not disassembled as yet, I am assuming timing belt, maybe ceased water pump, bent valves, dinged pistons. Reading these posts give the impression that with this much (possible) damage one should just get another engine. Would it not be as easy to replace the valves, fix the water pump and do the timing belt? Or is there more to this than I am led to believe. Let's hear your worst/best. FIY, start tear down tomorrow, late home from work tonight. To relate to the string, belt and tension pulley replaced at 106K.

#42 hohieu

hohieu

    Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 569 posts
  • Philadelphia

Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:48 AM

Sorry to hear of your trouble. Let us know what you find under there. Many on here will help very good advice for you.

At this point, I guess the question is whether you replaced all the idlers or just the tensioner assembly. As mentioned in this thread and many others, it's the cogged idler that tends to fail.

Usually, some coolant starts to leak out of the weep hole to warn of impending H20 pump bearing failure. I've read on this board that the H20 pumps on the 2.5L were more robust and that some weren't replacing them at the 1st T-belt service; however, I'm inclined to believe that extended H20 pump life has has more to do with lower phosphate/silicate coolant formulations.

I have the same car and replaced only the H20 pump and cogged ilder (along with seals and the oil pump 0-ring) at the first T-belt replacement. I now have over 170K miles on the car.

#43 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 352 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 26 September 2012 - 07:22 PM

I wonder what the true composition of those belts are...it may be some kind of 'industrial secret'.

My sense is that they really last a lot longer than advertised...


It's part of the gamble....I'd hate to be doing 70 on the highway to have it snap with an interference engine. :dead:

Aside from bent valves what other damage could it do a vehicle with a standard trannie?

--Damien

#44 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,831 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:50 PM

If the belt actually broke, the water pump problem started quite some time before that. For the temperature to spike the engine has to be running, if the belt broke first the engine stops and then no more heat is created. Sounds like the water pump disintegrated and seized, the engine can continue to run for several minutes after this until either the timing belt breaks or the engine overheats and seizes.

Three scenarios:
1. The belt didn't actually break, and you have a chance to replace the belt, water pump and ALL idlers (which should have been done the first time around to avoid his exact situation) and the engine might be fine.
2. Water pump seized and the belt broke, now bent valves need to be replaced, lots of money gets spent and you can hope that the overheat didn't chew up your rod bearings.
3. Water pump didn't seize. The clogged idler below it did and hung up on the belt. The bearings flew out, the idler dug into the water pump housing and chewed through the side, coolant spilled out everywhere causing the overheat. IF the belt actually broke, bent valves. If it didn't you might get lucky enough to hang a new belt on (wih new idlers and WP) and have it run without any other problems. Except for that chance that the rod bearings were damaged.

Worst case scenario:
You broke a valve and got this:

#45 efseiler

efseiler

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 352 posts
  • Passumpsic, Vermont

Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:13 AM

You people seem to be indicating that those belts don't really snap on their own but rather due to another part failing first....

#46 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,831 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:00 AM

The majority of the time yes, the failure of another component causes the belt to break. Occasionally a belt will fray and will eventually split/tear. Old belts generally lose the drive teeth before breaking.

#47 99ImprezaOSport

99ImprezaOSport

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 96 posts
  • Bethesda, MD

Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:51 PM

coming from someone who had a idler gear seize and snapped a belt. I think a belt is a cheap fix, including all the idler gears, WP, etc...

I currently have about 270K :clap: on a car which I need to work on the tranny/clutch and even with ONLY 80K on the current belt, I will replace it now rather than wait. Of course doing the work yourself is a few hundred dollars but going somewhere to get the work done is usually over 1,000 depending on how much they actually replace.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users