Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Subaru Libero


  • Please log in to reply
61 replies to this topic

#26 Ady_E12

Ady_E12

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Bucharest, Romania

Posted 26 April 2012 - 05:05 PM

I did replace both fuel filters. It has 2 paper filters, a bigger one down by the fuel tank and a smaller one just in front of the carb. Changed both with the big model.
It's all about taking the carb apart, cleaning and rebuilding it. Then refitting the vacuum lines in the appropriate order. I'll hire a professional to do that, I'm not at that stage yet.
I don't know why, but I can't get the van to move. The clutch doesn't really do anything. It barely BARELY moves when I put it in gear and it doesn't stall like a car should when I release the clutch. Previous owner said something about tuning the clutch cable or something, but I can't remember. I will call him tomorrow to ask him again.
Also, I'm quite nervous about that starter issue. It still crrrrrrrrrs and clicks and stuff. It doesn't crank properly all the time and, honestly, it's quite scary.
I will also replace the big cable from the battery to the starter. It can't hurt to have a new one.

Edited by Ady_E12, 26 April 2012 - 05:10 PM.


#27 Cougar

Cougar

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 6,340 posts
  • Anchorage

Posted 26 April 2012 - 05:55 PM

It sounds like the clutch disk is worn out and needs to be replaced. That is why it is slipping badly. As for the starter problem it sounds like the solenoid contacts are worn out. You can replace them or install a rebuilt starter. You may want to think about how much time and money you want to invest in this vehicle, though it is pretty neat.

#28 Ady_E12

Ady_E12

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Bucharest, Romania

Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:44 AM

The starter solenoid can be replaced with a more common Dacia 1310(Renault 12 replica) part. I don't know about the starter motor, but a former Subaru Libero owner told me that the solenoid would fit.
I'm worried that the occasional miss-crank will affect the bendix teeth or the flywheel teeth.
The clutch..... I'll call the last owner and ask him. He told me something about adjusting something on it, but I can't remember. Should've taken notes or something. He also told me something about checking the transmission fluid levels, but I have to figure out where are the filler and dump plugs.
I've noticed a good friend of mine(automotive Chuck Norris) about the fact that I started the van and I asked for assistance with the carburetor. Will be fixed in 2-3 weeks max(depending on his schedule.

#29 Ady_E12

Ady_E12

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Bucharest, Romania

Posted 11 May 2012 - 07:50 AM

After a few hours of fiddling with the the adjusting nut on the clutch cable, I finally gave up. I can't get it to engage properly. There is a spot where the car barely flinches, but it doesn't really move and it will never stall if I release the clutch fast.
I've got some info from a German repair manual, it says I have to get 160mm or more from the edge of the floor panel to the pedal when fully pressed. That's the only thing I could get from that book with Google Translate, but the problem
is I can't go more than 135-140 mm in real life.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Also, can anyone give me some proper clutch cable adjustment 101?
I dreamed that I actually drove the van last night. I want to turn that dream into reality.
Will make a small video to explain my problem better.
Cheers!

#30 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

Loyale 2.7 Turbo

    The Mighty "BumbleBeast"

  • Members
  • 5,732 posts
  • Roatán, Honduras.

Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:37 AM

Sounds to me like if the Clutch Cable is not Routed Properly...

Are you Sure it is the Right one for your Subie? ... if so, I Kindly Suggest you to Check the Route it was installed, maybe you can avoid certain Turns that can Shorten its Movement.

Kind Regards.

#31 Cougar

Cougar

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 6,340 posts
  • Anchorage

Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:31 AM

What makes you think the clutch and pressure plate are ok and you don't need to replace one or both of them. It sounds to me that is the trouble.

#32 Ady_E12

Ady_E12

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Bucharest, Romania

Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:52 AM

To be honest, it kinda sounds like that to me too, but I really hope it's not the case.
I just got off the phone with the previous owner, he said that the clutch was ok when he had the van, but it can be seized since it sat for a good five years. He said to try and lubricate it somehow.
Now, the man really is a good person, open about everything, didn't lie about stuff before I bought the car, I can't think of a reason why he'd lie to me now.
This all looks like I'm gonna have to take the clutch off the car and take a look at it. Not something I'd really enjoy doin', but what can I say? I bought a cheap old Subaru, stuff like that was bound to happen.

#33 Ady_E12

Ady_E12

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Bucharest, Romania

Posted 12 May 2012 - 06:58 AM

I got the greatest idea this morning. It came out of nowhere.
In order to access the clutch for inspection(to see if the pressure plate is actually doing something when I push on the fork), I will remove the starter from it's position. That should work I guess. Also, I'll be doing some more inspection on the starter itself. I'll look for possible foreign objects(unlikely) or damage caused by misalignment(not sure how likely since the starter is a straight forward bolt on unit). I'll also try to stick a vacuum cleaner hose inside the starter's hole, there is some kind of weird dirt in there.
After cleaning, I'll inspect the movement of the clutch and perhaps I'll squirt some penetrating oil if the thing is really stuck as the last owner claims.

I will replace some of the power cables as well. The battery+ lead must be replaced(will install a thicker power cable salvaged from my Ford w/ brand new connectors) and I'll redo a bad solder made on the ignition wire. Actually it's not even a solder, the wire got broken in the past and the previous owner just twisted the the wires back together and got some electrical tape over it.
Hope the starter problems will be solved with these repairs and, hopefully, I'll fix the clutch as well.
Wish me luck.

#34 Cougar

Cougar

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 6,340 posts
  • Anchorage

Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:11 AM

You don't want any oil near the clutch assembly. That can make things worse. You are going to have to take things apart and most likely install new parts. You can't fix this kind of problem using a vacuum cleaner, even if there is debris in there.

Edited by Cougar, 12 May 2012 - 10:15 AM.


#35 Ady_E12

Ady_E12

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Bucharest, Romania

Posted 13 May 2012 - 08:27 AM

I know I can't fix the problem with the vacuum cleaner, but I think it's something worth doing since I'm opening that access point.
It can't really do any harm.
The thing I'm looking for is some movement of the pressure plate. If that moves when I have someone pull the fork.
Now, about the starter hole, it looked like there was some dark dirt in there when I first took the starter out. I tried to protect the hole while the starter was out by stuffing a clean plastic bag in there and it seemed to be pretty effective. It's not gonna fix the clutch or anything, but I think it's a good thing to do.

#36 Cougar

Cougar

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 6,340 posts
  • Anchorage

Posted 13 May 2012 - 01:00 PM

Now, about the starter hole, it looked like there was some dark dirt in there when I first took the starter out.


That dark stuff you saw is most likely dust that came from ware on the clutch disk. If there is no pressure on the fork that presses on the pressure plate to disengage the clutch and the clutch still slips you are done. The clutch assembly is bad.

#37 Ady_E12

Ady_E12

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Bucharest, Romania

Posted 13 May 2012 - 03:34 PM

About that dirt inside the starter housing. Yeah, that's exactly what I imagined it is. Dust created by the wearing of the clutch. It looks really weird. It's all black and fibery and stuff. Totally gothic. Got a tiny bit out along with the starter. Will post a pic.
I wanted to do a dry run for the starter, to fire it up electrically connected to the car, but out of it's housing so I can see how it runs, but for some reason it didn't work. I put the terminals ok, I used a jumper lead to ground it to the engine, I took out the fuel supply and the ignition coil aaaaaand nothing. It did show that power drain that happens when you turn the ignition, but it didn't budge at all. Also, now the oil pressure warning light doesn't come on anymore when I put the key in the ignition.
The whole starter/oil pressure light not working kind of pissed me off so I decided to leave it be for the moment and to take the battery + cable off the car so I can replace it. Crummy little thing actually, looks so weak.
The cable that I'm gonna put in is not new, but at least is almost twice as thick as this one and it's gonna have new connectors. I KNOW that is gonna be an improvement.
I had to take out the entire airbox, but all for the better. I've got loads of access now and I found one broken vacuum line(I think it's vacuum, it sure looks like it) that goes somewhere to the gearbox.
Logic would dictate that it has something to do with the 4WD system(which doesn't work) perhaps it will be a cheap fix to a major issue.
I'm off to confront that German manual to see if there's something about that vacuum line. Will keep you posted.
Oh yeah, I also adjusted the tension in the throttle cable and I power brushed and painted a rusty vacuum pipe. Yeah. Much better. Will install the pipe as soon as I get it back from the ranch(paint wasn't dry).
The throttle response is much better with the new cable setting, it runs great but I have to install that pipe and clean the carb ASAP. Weird popping noises(blow-by I think).
Cheers!

#38 Cougar

Cougar

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 6,340 posts
  • Anchorage

Posted 13 May 2012 - 07:00 PM

The warning lights should turn on when you turn on the ignition switch. It may mean there is a blown fuse somewhere or a bad connection to power. You need a test light to check for power. It should be geting to the panel under the hood and also to the dash panel when the ignition is ON. To get the starter to run it needs to have power getting to the solenoid wire. If that is ok and you hear it click but not turn on then the solenoid contacts are bad.

#39 Ady_E12

Ady_E12

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Bucharest, Romania

Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:04 PM

I tried to figure out what is the deal with that rubber hose that I found on the transmission, but no luck.
It doesn't look like a vacuum line, it's a bit thicker that the rest of the vacuum lines and it looks like it's meant for gear oil(translucent and oil-brown in color). Problem is I don't know where it's supposed to go. No help from the pics I have with the German repair manual. It has some schematics on the gearbox, but that nipple where the hose sits is not mentioned.
Anywho, I cleaned the outside of the gearbox with a wire brush(lots of dust collected over the years) and I took the battery - cable out for a re-solder along with the battery box. I'm thinking of making a new cable all together for the negative lead as well. I've got some thicker black cable left from the Ford, and the solder that I did on this one is an embarrassment so I think a replacement will work just fine.
The battery box is really dirty and rusty(no holes, just surface rust, but really nasty) and since I have access to it's mounting bolts, it's a good idea to take it out and give it a makeover. The underside is exposed to road debris/corrosion so proper rustproofing is a must.
I strongly believe that replacing the wires with thicker ones and with brand-new connectors will help. Also, a proper solder on the ignition wire will do good. My hypothesis is: since that thing was twisted back together and covered with electrical tape, in time, the glue from the tape melted from the engine heat, creating some kind of a sludgy imperfection in the contact.
That and the corroded power cable connecters would give the starter low voltage, causing it to crank poorly. If you think about it, it kinda' make sense.
BTW, I took the starter out, looked at the teeth on the bendix, they were fine, just fine... fine. No damage. That's good.
Two pics of the dirt that I took out with the starter. I'm definitely going with clutch wear dust.
Finals are coming up this week so I'll tone it down a little with the van. Will keep you guys posted.
Cheers

Attached Files



#40 Ady_E12

Ady_E12

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Bucharest, Romania

Posted 18 May 2012 - 02:56 PM

Latest update video: .
Please enjoy and if you can, HELP ME!
Will do some more work this weekend.

#41 Libero

Libero

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Chile

Posted 07 July 2012 - 11:38 PM

Hello ADY

I owner a EF-10 1992 that in general terms is similar to EF12 Libero, first: the transparent hose coming from the gearbox is a kind of transmission oil overflow, when performing the replacement of oil of the gearbox there is not a dipstick Lube level of the gearbox, so that hose is included for that purpose of overflow of oil to avoid damage of gearbox.

Ignition cables that you are changing always fail with the rust, the only problem I see with the new positive cable is that it is very "thin", my original cable EF10 has a twice as thick as yours, I advise you look for a thicker cable and soldered to both ends firmly, also with the negative cable. Regarding the same cable black and yellow connector it is of the starter solenoid, also apply solder and a connector of good quality.

The other hose that you have at the side of the alternator I think it's a fuel return, the EF10 in that place has a fuel filter and the hose connected to the injection, is what is known as overflow of fuel, so check it out.

#42 Libero

Libero

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Chile

Posted 07 July 2012 - 11:46 PM

I leave some pictures that can help you

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#43 Ady_E12

Ady_E12

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Bucharest, Romania

Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:13 AM

Thanks a lot, mate! Your carb looks like the manual choke one, but the pics are helpful. It's much simpler for you, but mine has the automatic choke carb and there are waaaaay more vacuum lines. Will try and figure it out. I've got this friend of mine(engineer, Automotive Chuck Norris), he's cleaning my carb and he'll help me install it, fine tune it, etc.
The power cables came from a 2.3 liter German built Ford. If they were good enough to power a starter that big, they are most certainly good enough for my little van. Also, they are almost twice as thick as the SUBARU factory ones. It didn't even crank with the original cables, now it works great.
Question: Where is the filling plug on the gearbox? I know where the oil drain is, but I'm not sure where the filler is. The guy I bought the van from said to check the levels(gearbox and front diff). Since I must check the levels, I would like to completely replaced the fluid with new. I mean.... the van is 20 years old.

#44 Libero

Libero

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Chile

Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:19 PM

To replace the oil of the gearbox you must remove the cover from where comes the clear hose that I said is a kind of transmission oil overflow, are four bolts (number 10).I hope you can solve your problems and soon enjoy the Libero ¡¡is a little strange in some ways but you´ll learn to love it :headbang:

Posted Image

:headbang::headbang:

Edited by Libero, 08 July 2012 - 09:27 PM.


#45 Ady_E12

Ady_E12

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Bucharest, Romania

Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:00 AM

I don't know, man... it's starting to really bring me down.
I installed the freshly painted airbox yesterday and some ground wires that I rebuilt(there are 3 ground wires down in the right rear corner, right next to the coolant bottle). I had to relocate one of them because the bolt that held it before got broken so I attached it on the frame, on the bolt that holds the steel vacuum line on the chassis rail(on the right side of the engine bay).
Now it has the same cranking problem that it had when I bought it. It also struggles to crank without completely cutting off power to the other systems.
I'm gonna take the starter off the car again, maybe take it apart and check the parts inside.
The other stuff seems to work(stereo, hazard lights, etc).

#46 Libero

Libero

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Chile

Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:25 PM

Hello, you must be very careful with the starting point of the camshaft with the crankshaft, check the status of the distributor rotor and jumper cables, there is generally a problem with the original plug for the distributor over the years lose their elasticity the cables that connect to this socket, if all these elements are correct the vehicle should start without problems.

Check and do maintenance to the starter motor, if you can post a video explaining the situation again to help you more.


If you knew how many years it takes me to REbuild my EF10 gives you a heart attack :D therefore I offer my help to hear that roar at libero.:cool:

#47 Ady_E12

Ady_E12

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Bucharest, Romania

Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:05 AM

I'm taking the starter off the car today, I'm having a mate(former E10 owner) come along and help m,e take the starter apart and look for worn out brushe or stuff like that.
Will make a video.
Thanks!

#48 Ady_E12

Ady_E12

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Bucharest, Romania

Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:41 PM

I met up with this guy that used to have an E10 and we took a look at the starter.
The teeth on the bendix are slightly bruised. Also, the ones on the flywheel gear ring are bruised.
The starter has it's moods. Usually it cranks right away, but it does these episodes when it grinds or does nothing, just clicks. My theory is that the gear ring is slightly more bruised in one point and when it happens to engage on that exact point, that's when it acts up.
This guy said that he used to switch the gear ring around when it got worn(not on his SUBARU, on other cars). Old mechanics trick he says, works great. He is not quite a rookie, he took studies in the field and he owned several cars that he modded.
I won't do anything at the moment about the starter, will work with it as is. When the clutch will finally worn off, I will take the engine off and only then I will replace the gear ring and the starter.

I really need help setting up my vacuum lines. Someone with an E12, someone with an automatic choke carburetor, please help me. I will try Czech or Polish SUBARU Libero forums as well, even though I have no idea how will I be able to communicate with those guys.

Having this friend of mine over today was a great thing, he helped me change the brake fluid and to bleed the system. Brake pedal really stiff now, level all topped off and most importantly it's brand new. I got rid of the old nasty brown stuff. Also, the brake line that I made from a salvaged Ford brake line doesn't leak. Will check how the cylinder works.
Video coming up tomorrow.
Thanks a lot, guys!

#49 Cougar

Cougar

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 6,340 posts
  • Anchorage

Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:35 PM

Clicking from the starter motor usually means the solenoid contacts for the starter are nearly worn out. They make a high resistance connection so the motor can't get enough current to run it.

#50 Ady_E12

Ady_E12

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Bucharest, Romania

Posted 12 July 2012 - 07:10 AM

Ultra-noob question:
Where should the lamps with the H4 bulb go? Are they supposed to be the inner lamps or on the ones on the outside?
I'm asking because I was dumb enough to take them off without taking a clear picture. I set it in my mind, I put them back on as I remembered taking them off, but lately I can't trust my memory.
Maybe this is the cause of my "police strobe light" issue. Just throwing it out there as a possibility.
I am truly ashamed for the big FAIL, but I must do the right thing and ask.
Thanks!

PS: I've got a hold of some E12 engine pics from a Czech SUBARU forum. It's got a makeshift diagram on it, but I can't understand a word(I don't know the language). As soon as I get it translated in English(most likely with the wretched Google Translate), I'll post it here ;) .

Edited by Ady_E12, 12 July 2012 - 08:41 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users