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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Mock up in solid works, Subaru R160 Locker


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171 replies to this topic

#126 Ioku

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 08:53 PM

Good to hear, I was going to ask if you were going to make one for the clip in male axles, as thats what I currently have, so glad to see its in the plans.

#127 el_freddo

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:23 AM

I'm going to be working on running a new application through it! 95+ axel stud swap, increasing axel streangth along with stud streangth. Not being hallow like the old style. Although it will require swap which is going to be more $$ for someone you. One reason why I'm making both apps, bolt in and clip in stubs. Cheaper Vs. not so cheaper.


Awesome. Thought about using the front stubs from the EA gearbox as a template? These clip in like so:

Posted Image

The carb boxes are 23 spline, same as the rear, but I'm unsure about the difference in diametre of these stubs in the diff housing/oil seal.

It sounds good though, some stronger stubs would be awesome, hope it doesn't then break something harder to replace further along the line ;)

Cheers

Bennie

#128 Prwa101

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:20 AM

Awesome. Thought about using the front stubs from the EA gearbox as a template? These clip in like so:

Posted Image

The carb boxes are 23 spline, same as the rear, but I'm unsure about the difference in diametre of these stubs in the diff housing/oil seal.

It sounds good though, some stronger stubs would be awesome, hope it doesn't then break something harder to replace further along the line ;)

Cheers

Bennie


Nope didnt think of that, im planning on going to upullit and gettting a rear diff from a 2000 outback i saw there the other day. and just go from there.
All EA are 23 spline other than the turbo lol. im pretty sure there the same size in DIM or it wouldnt had been suggested to me by GD. :headbang:
haha and breaking wize the only other weakest link is the axles. ran my Locker through Simulation and it can pretty much hold up what ever its givin haha. :burnout:

UPDATE: i think ive found someone to make my locker! waiting on a reply!! :headbang:

#129 Prwa101

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 03:40 PM

LITTLE BORED TODAY waiting for that call back..... whatcha guys think?? http://aaengineerings.webs.com/
:headbang::clap:

Prwa101 AAE

#130 Mugs

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:59 PM

Looks like a good start....Gotta start somewhere right. :clap:

95% of the population fails, because they never start. :popcorn:

#131 Prwa101

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:31 PM

Looks like a good start....Gotta start somewhere right. :clap:

95% of the population fails, because they never start. :popcorn:


Thanks dude! Yeah needs a lot of work still but it's a start :)

#132 Scott in Bellingham

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:43 PM

what kind of hardness will you give the teeth , Im asuming the lockers out there have case hardened surfaces?

#133 Prwa101

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:57 PM

what kind of hardness will you give the teeth , Im asuming the lockers out there have case hardened surfaces?


Going to start with 9310 steel alloy, case hardend. For now, see how that holds up. Maybe upgrade it later if it dosnt do so well.

#134 Fairtax4me

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:26 AM

I'm missing something here... How does it work? Air, electric, or centrifugal?

Also, since this is designed for the rear differential, how difficult would it be to modify/fit it in a front differential?

I don't know how much different there is in the carriers, but front and rear lockers would make one of these cars completely unstoppable! :headbang:

Edited by Fairtax4me, 15 June 2012 - 12:33 AM.


#135 czny

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 08:30 AM

Going to start with 9310 steel alloy, case hardend. For now, see how that holds up. Maybe upgrade it later if it dosnt do so well.


Shouldn't need to upgrade the alloy - Spartan lockers are case-hardened 9310 alloy steel.
If there's a steel supplier nearby maybe they'd have an end cut from a 9310 round bar stock in the scrap bin. You'd be surprised how much alloy steel goes to scrap at metal suppliers.

Edit: here's onlinemetals.com for 9310 3" round stock.
http://www.onlinemet...&id=1&top_cat=0

I love their disclaimer:
"At OnlineMetals, we all failed shop class. Multiple times. As a matter of fact, our employment applications specifically ask to see people's grades for their high school shop classes. If they're too high, they go into the rejected pile. We're also not engineers, and cannot make any specific recommendations about the suitability of a given alloy, temper, or shape for your project or application.

All technical data is for comparison purposes only and is NOT FOR DESIGN. It has been compiled from sources we believe to be accurate but cannot guarantee. This ends the part of the website that our pointy-headed lawyers made us put in. "


If you can find good remnant steel rounds at a machinists supplier or metals supplier so much the better.

Edited by czny, 15 June 2012 - 11:52 PM.
more info


#136 WoodsWagon

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 02:25 PM

I'm missing something here... How does it work? Air, electric, or centrifugal?

Also, since this is designed for the rear differential, how difficult would it be to modify/fit it in a front differential?

I don't know how much different there is in the carriers, but front and rear lockers would make one of these cars completely unstoppable! :headbang:

It's a springloaded ratcheting mechanism that gets wedged together when under load and locks both axles together. When not under load, it lets one axle ratchet faster than the carrier to go around turns.

There are torsen-style LSD's sold for the front diff, like OBX on the cheap end and quaife on the high end.

#137 eulogious

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 08:22 PM

. Haha. I dont like my files floting around.. There's ways to get around selling things ;) Parking lot style. Haha.


I just have to say something about this comment you made...

<start rant>
Why don't you want your files floating around? Are you embarrassed of them? Coming from someone who openly shares ANYTHING I design/make with ANYONE (and there are more than one project I have done this on), I don't get this logic. You wanna know about my paddle shifters and the custom code I run on my TCU to make that happed? Sure! Not a problem, I will give you everything and more to help you reach your goal. THAT'S what the internet is all about. Sharing and helping. Not hoarding and keeping everything to yourself.

This site would not exist if people had this same attitude of keeping it all to themselves. In fact, that is the WHOLE POINT of this website/forum, to openly share information and to help others out on Subaru related things. Not to brag about what they can do or what they have accomplished, but to help others reach that same goal and accomplish what they have.

The open source community has THRIVED for years by keeping everything out in the open and everyone helping everyone, even with "new" technology. Especially for you, there is no reason not to just give the file out and let others help/do it themselves. It's not like you created something new that you don't want someone to copy, you just copied an old design and made it smaller.

By keeping this all to yourself, you are losing out on lots of potential help. I may be pretty smart, but I have learned that there is ALWAYS someone smarter than me out there. So why not let those smarter people help you out? Another word for it might be "Peer Review". Either way you want to look at it, it can't hurt you by "giving" out "your" design, it will only help you.

I like what you got going on here, but I don't understand keeping it all to yourself. You are shooting yourself in the foot by not letting some of the really smart people here look at your idea and help you improve it.
</end rant>

If this ever comes to fruition, I will for sure be hitting you up on how to build one of these/buy one. It's an awesome idea!

Edited by eulogious, 19 June 2012 - 08:25 PM.


#138 Prwa101

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 05:28 PM

I just have to say something about this comment you made...

<start rant>
Why don't you want your files floating around? Are you embarrassed of them? Coming from someone who openly shares ANYTHING I design/make with ANYONE (and there are more than one project I have done this on), I don't get this logic. You wanna know about my paddle shifters and the custom code I run on my TCU to make that happed? Sure! Not a problem, I will give you everything and more to help you reach your goal. THAT'S what the internet is all about. Sharing and helping. Not hoarding and keeping everything to yourself.

This site would not exist if people had this same attitude of keeping it all to themselves. In fact, that is the WHOLE POINT of this website/forum, to openly share information and to help others out on Subaru related things. Not to brag about what they can do or what they have accomplished, but to help others reach that same goal and accomplish what they have.

The open source community has THRIVED for years by keeping everything out in the open and everyone helping everyone, even with "new" technology. Especially for you, there is no reason not to just give the file out and let others help/do it themselves. It's not like you created something new that you don't want someone to copy, you just copied an old design and made it smaller.

By keeping this all to yourself, you are losing out on lots of potential help. I may be pretty smart, but I have learned that there is ALWAYS someone smarter than me out there. So why not let those smarter people help you out? Another word for it might be "Peer Review". Either way you want to look at it, it can't hurt you by "giving" out "your" design, it will only help you.

I like what you got going on here, but I don't understand keeping it all to yourself. You are shooting yourself in the foot by not letting some of the really smart people here look at your idea and help you improve it.
</end rant>

If this ever comes to fruition, I will for sure be hitting you up on how to build one of these/buy one. It's an awesome idea!


Hell no im not embarrassed of my work, i spent three months coming up with what ive got here now, (wasn't easy).. and in fact i am sharing this! i spent MY time building this for other people, not just my self. This whole project is for other people i dont even have a Subaru i can run it in yet because its still being built.

The Internet is not only a sharing data base, people steal ideas all the time, and ive learned my lesson through my family's experiences. Whats keeping anyone from selling my files (if i gave them to someone) to the right guy, such as Detroit or any of the other company's who makes them. While they reap the benefits and i lose my business because a larger company can produce them for way cheaper than i can.

I can completely agree with sharing knowledge with people, but its only to a certain extent where it becomes un safe for my self. Im not keeping this all to my self, JUST MY Files. Im working on getting this product made for other people so thats no keeping it for my self. I just got a quote for 2000$ for only one unit to be made.

and i agree i know for a fact there are smarter people out there than me. HAH im only 20 years old, i still have many more years of learning. Just the fact that i took my time to create something no one else has done, for USMB and all my friends on here. All im wanting out of my product is a little money to pay off my school loans.

Also to show my appropriation to the people who have been helping me through this project, im offering a major discount upon production. which ive stated before.

and i have shown pictures through out the project, sharing again.

I dont want to sound like an *********************, ive just spent a long time on this and would be really ****ing angry if someone stabbed me in the back. but i agree to some point with what your saying. One reason why i started a thread on here, for people impute and help, also to see what people want.
and thanks, its been a long processes. Still working on finding someone to get one made for testing, 2000$ is way to much for one.

CZNY may be helping me make one, once he gets settled down in Oregon. :Flame:

-Prwa AAE

#139 czny

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 09:33 AM

"CZNY may be helping me make one, once he gets settled down in Oregon." :Flame:

It will take time to move all my machinery, tools, vehicles, parts & household. I'd like to leave this area today, but there is a lot to do.

#140 El Presidente

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:28 PM

If your so worried about people stealing your idea, maybe you shouldn't sell any lockers.. If you sell any, you can pretty much count on somebody using it to make another, much like you did with the full size locker(although yours is modified), so can you really say your worried about someone knocking off your locker, when you've done the same? Do you think detriot would be ok knowing you copied one of their locker to make yours? Don't you think they'd want royalties for your use of their patent?

Instead of thinking of this as "your" idea, think of as your "locker". So what if the plans are out there?!...If someone is going to copy yours they will(no, you can't stop them, detriot couldn't stop you!), but you can offer a locker ready to go with no hassle. Thats your advantage on the market, your head start on production, not your plans. You still have to worry about patent infringment on your part, so your production can probably only go so far. Is what it is.

For years Subaru guys have been begging detroit, arb, aussie, lockrite etc., to make a locker for a r160 and from what my searching around has found out is that the market isn't big enough for them to deal with. They can, but it would be to risky for detroit to start making these and if they wanted to, they would have already. Once you sell them, detriot could buy one and reverse engineer your modifications and easly call them their own, but they don't care about a little subaru r160.

Josh

#141 Prwa101

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 06:19 PM

If your so worried about people stealing your idea, maybe you shouldn't sell any lockers.. If you sell any, you can pretty much count on somebody using it to make another, much like you did with the full size locker(although yours is modified), so can you really say your worried about someone knocking off your locker, when you've done the same? Do you think detriot would be ok knowing you copied one of their locker to make yours? Don't you think they'd want royalties for your use of their patent?

Instead of thinking of this as "your" idea, think of as your "locker". So what if the plans are out there?!...If someone is going to copy yours they will(no, you can't stop them, detriot couldn't stop you!), but you can offer a locker ready to go with no hassle. Thats your advantage on the market, your head start on production, not your plans. You still have to worry about patent infringment on your part, so your production can probably only go so far. Is what it is.

For years Subaru guys have been begging detroit, arb, aussie, lockrite etc., to make a locker for a r160 and from what my searching around has found out is that the market isn't big enough for them to deal with. They can, but it would be to risky for detroit to start making these and if they wanted to, they would have already. Once you sell them, detriot could buy one and reverse engineer your modifications and easly call them their own, but they don't care about a little subaru r160.

Josh


Okay hold up, all of this was Ment for me giving my files out with a locker so it dosnt come back to me possibly copying a pattent. Cause it's "free". I'm not worried at all, if someone really has the time a tools to buy one from me a copy it, good for them. Then they'd know how I felt making it haha. And they'd have to live with the fact they copied my locker, and they'll get whats coming to them. CARMA.

I apologies let me correct my self, my "locker" and "designIng". Not "idea". With similar aspects to the lockright locker, and Sparten locker.
And your right if someone really wanted it They would have already done it. As far as pattent infringement, I Belive it has enough disimulartys to the others so itll be okay. (still workin on it though)

Yeah I saw a post a while back saying ARB would make them but only off they have 50000 up front for them putting them at 1000$ a unit. One reson why I'm going to try and keep the cost down.

Okay now I hope the air is clean in this subject? I'm not the best speaker and grammatical correctest person. I blame my dislexia. Didnt mean to say "mine" "yours" in that context. My bad. :banghead:

As far as the locker goes, workin on getting a broach made for the splines so it cuts time down on production. Meaning less $$. :horse:

#142 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:44 PM

saw this in another thread;

http://www.ebay.com/...dd0b6c0&vxp=mtr

#143 Zefy

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 01:25 AM

saw this in another thread;

http://www.ebay.com/...dd0b6c0&vxp=mtr


torsen diffs require at least a small amount of traction to function. So once a tire gets off the ground or you put it on something really really slippy they stop working. Fantastic diffs for tarmac or loose surfaces but not good for wheeling.

Lunchbox lockers, like the one Prwa101 is making, default to locking in pretty much every situation where a wheel would slip or be off the ground. Much better system for off-road but sometimes terrifying at any real speed during mid corner.

Very good work and I'm excited to see how they perform. Very interested to see this in a front diff. Rears are cheap and weldable but fronts are a pain.

Very ambitious project!

#144 Cyfun

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 05:43 AM

Hell, I'd rather have the torsen than the locker for on and offroad driving. I mean, a locker would be BEAUTIFUL offroad and only offroad, but with a torsen if you get one wheel up in the air, just apply the brakes a bit and it will give enough resistance to the spinning wheel to send power to your good wheel.

Then when you're just driving in the packed dirt or the snowy pavement and going between high and low traction situations, you won't worry about wearing tires or axles or the diff.

Edited by Cyfun, 11 July 2012 - 05:46 AM.


#145 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:29 AM

fair points - that ad doesn't seem to really say what is in that diff - I think it claims be 'like' a torsen so, I dunno

also, used parts


if that guy can get over $400 for a used diff, should give you an idea where a decent price point might be for this one.

Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 11 July 2012 - 07:32 AM.


#146 Prwa101

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 12:18 AM

Mk guys, been working full time, trying to finish my ej swap, save money for a wedding next summer AND save money for the first build of this locker.... Got in contact with a guy in estacada that does realt good work and was really helpful so I got the costs for the first build and a potential cost for each unit soon production. BUT have some to the conclusion for people with very little money it's hard to pay people to make things.....

Costs: :Flame:
1500$ first build. maybe less? Depending on time at the shop he said.
1000$ for a custom broach for the splines...
2500$+ for just the first one....

So per unit if what the guy told me was correct, cost for you guys would be about 500$. Give or take.

It really sucks being poor... :popcorn:

Just thought I'd give you guys a update and to tell you I havnt given up! :) still working away!

-AAE

#147 Cyfun

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 12:40 AM

$500 ain't bad. Better than $1000, and at least it's easier than tryna swap out the entire diff for an R180 or R200 and have to frankenstein axles.

#148 Prwa101

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 01:07 PM

Good news guys, a three days before classes started i got a phone call from the integrated metals machine shop program that i had applied to during the summer, I GOT IN!!

So looks like im going to be making the locker my self, the teacher said as long as you get good enough in the shop you can make what ever you want! (other than guns........ really sad day.. haha) :headbang:

Looking at making one units for extensive testing, then hopefully i can begin production and will start taking orders. :clap: maybe by the end of the term ill have it down and can sell a few of the ones i made :headbang:

Havnt given up! :headbang:


-Prwa AAE

#149 OSUFlatland

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:09 AM

If you need help or a shop to run limited production and aren't against paying shipping, I work in a prototyping shop in Corvallis. I'm still pretty green myself or I'd offer my own help, but you could at least get a quote from us: http://kingmachineproducts.com/ Hope this turns out, it looks rad!

#150 Prwa101

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:29 PM

If you need help or a shop to run limited production and aren't against paying shipping, I work in a prototyping shop in Corvallis. I'm still pretty green myself or I'd offer my own help, but you could at least get a quote from us: http://kingmachineproducts.com/ Hope this turns out, it looks rad!


Nice guy! I'll look into it, and actually my woman lives in Monmouth and I'm down there pretty much every weekend so shipping won't be needed.

It's been a while since I've updated, but I'm just about done with the first term in machining. Looking like I'm going to beable to make it my self stertin on the cnc machines next term. And I know CZNY was going to help me make it as well when he get up my way. :) if I get a shop built at home soon I have a lathe that I'm goin to put in it.

Getting close! Gotta get it done before the next WCSS!

Prwa AAE




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